FTP Calculation
10-16-24, 09:04 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,294
Bikes: Columbine, Paramount Track Bike, Colnago Super, Santana Tandems (1995 & 2007), Gary Fisher Piranha, Trek Wahoo, Bianchi Track Bike, a couple of Honda mountain bikes
Liked 461 Times
in
283 Posts
FTP Calculation
I understand an FTP calculation is best done with a 60 min test on a flat windless road, but 15 minutes will suffice.
Living in San Diego, there aren't any roads I'm aware of that meet those criteria.
Is there any reason any other ride as an "out and back" wouldn't work if the grade was mild?
Since FTP measures leg power, I'm not understanding how the road matters much.
Living in San Diego, there aren't any roads I'm aware of that meet those criteria.
Is there any reason any other ride as an "out and back" wouldn't work if the grade was mild?
Since FTP measures leg power, I'm not understanding how the road matters much.
__________________
Cheers, Mike
-Stupid hurts....ride safe
Cheers, Mike
-Stupid hurts....ride safe
10-16-24, 10:24 AM
#2
Perceptual Dullard
The "F" in FTP stands for "functional," and it's a functional way to estimate a threshold, as opposed to the way it was done at the time which was to test in a laboratory while hooked up to a metabolic cart that measured HR, blood lactate, exhaled gases and riding an exercise bike. The threshold it was trying to estimate was an anchor point for assessing and assigning work load, but there are other thresholds that could be used. FTP was just a ballpark rule-of-thumb procedure that let you approximate the threshold if you had an on-bike power meter.
So the bottom line is that although Andy Coggan intended that FTP be an estimator of maximum lactate steady state, he purposefully left the exact protocol for measuring FTP kinda amorphous. You're using an practical, functional, test to approximate something else that's hard to measure without an laboratory and expensive equipment. Coaches who needed a practical way to implement a test they could give their clients are the ones who came up with increasingly specific prescriptions for how to measure FTP, forgetting what the "F" was for, and mostly unclear on what the F they were doing.
People typically use FTP either as an anchor point for training programs or, more commonly, as a tool for measuring your tool -- and if you use it for the latter case, you're mostly a tool.
So I haven't done a formal FTP test for many years. I can mostly set my training levels by doing a training session and deciding whether it was too easy (in which case I raise my estimate of FTP) or, more commonly, deciding it was too hard (in which case I lower it). Lather, rinse, repeat. I don't worry about a 60 minute test.
So the bottom line is that although Andy Coggan intended that FTP be an estimator of maximum lactate steady state, he purposefully left the exact protocol for measuring FTP kinda amorphous. You're using an practical, functional, test to approximate something else that's hard to measure without an laboratory and expensive equipment. Coaches who needed a practical way to implement a test they could give their clients are the ones who came up with increasingly specific prescriptions for how to measure FTP, forgetting what the "F" was for, and mostly unclear on what the F they were doing.
People typically use FTP either as an anchor point for training programs or, more commonly, as a tool for measuring your tool -- and if you use it for the latter case, you're mostly a tool.
So I haven't done a formal FTP test for many years. I can mostly set my training levels by doing a training session and deciding whether it was too easy (in which case I raise my estimate of FTP) or, more commonly, deciding it was too hard (in which case I lower it). Lather, rinse, repeat. I don't worry about a 60 minute test.
10-16-24, 10:49 AM
#3
I understand an FTP calculation is best done with a 60 min test on a flat windless road, but 15 minutes will suffice.
Living in San Diego, there aren't any roads I'm aware of that meet those criteria.
Is there any reason any other ride as an "out and back" wouldn't work if the grade was mild?
Since FTP measures leg power, I'm not understanding how the road matters much.
Living in San Diego, there aren't any roads I'm aware of that meet those criteria.
Is there any reason any other ride as an "out and back" wouldn't work if the grade was mild?
Since FTP measures leg power, I'm not understanding how the road matters much.
10-16-24, 12:16 PM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,294
Bikes: Columbine, Paramount Track Bike, Colnago Super, Santana Tandems (1995 & 2007), Gary Fisher Piranha, Trek Wahoo, Bianchi Track Bike, a couple of Honda mountain bikes
Liked 461 Times
in
283 Posts
The "F" in FTP stands for "functional," and it's a functional way to estimate a threshold, as opposed to the way it was done at the time which was to test in a laboratory while hooked up to a metabolic cart that measured HR, blood lactate, exhaled gases and riding an exercise bike. The threshold it was trying to estimate was an anchor point for assessing and assigning work load, but there are other thresholds that could be used. FTP was just a ballpark rule-of-thumb procedure that let you approximate the threshold if you had an on-bike power meter.
So the bottom line is that although Andy Coggan intended that FTP be an estimator of maximum lactate steady state, he purposefully left the exact protocol for measuring FTP kinda amorphous. You're using an practical, functional, test to approximate something else that's hard to measure without an laboratory and expensive equipment. Coaches who needed a practical way to implement a test they could give their clients are the ones who came up with increasingly specific prescriptions for how to measure FTP, forgetting what the "F" was for, and mostly unclear on what the F they were doing.
People typically use FTP either as an anchor point for training programs or, more commonly, as a tool for measuring your tool -- and if you use it for the latter case, you're mostly a tool.
So I haven't done a formal FTP test for many years. I can mostly set my training levels by doing a training session and deciding whether it was too easy (in which case I raise my estimate of FTP) or, more commonly, deciding it was too hard (in which case I lower it). Lather, rinse, repeat. I don't worry about a 60 minute test.
So the bottom line is that although Andy Coggan intended that FTP be an estimator of maximum lactate steady state, he purposefully left the exact protocol for measuring FTP kinda amorphous. You're using an practical, functional, test to approximate something else that's hard to measure without an laboratory and expensive equipment. Coaches who needed a practical way to implement a test they could give their clients are the ones who came up with increasingly specific prescriptions for how to measure FTP, forgetting what the "F" was for, and mostly unclear on what the F they were doing.
People typically use FTP either as an anchor point for training programs or, more commonly, as a tool for measuring your tool -- and if you use it for the latter case, you're mostly a tool.
So I haven't done a formal FTP test for many years. I can mostly set my training levels by doing a training session and deciding whether it was too easy (in which case I raise my estimate of FTP) or, more commonly, deciding it was too hard (in which case I lower it). Lather, rinse, repeat. I don't worry about a 60 minute test.
__________________
Cheers, Mike
-Stupid hurts....ride safe
Cheers, Mike
-Stupid hurts....ride safe
10-16-24, 12:27 PM
#5
don't try this at home.
I understand an FTP calculation is best done with a 60 min test on a flat windless road, but 15 minutes will suffice.
Living in San Diego, there aren't any roads I'm aware of that meet those criteria.
Is there any reason any other ride as an "out and back" wouldn't work if the grade was mild?
Since FTP measures leg power, I'm not understanding how the road matters much.
Living in San Diego, there aren't any roads I'm aware of that meet those criteria.
Is there any reason any other ride as an "out and back" wouldn't work if the grade was mild?
Since FTP measures leg power, I'm not understanding how the road matters much.
~~
I don't pay much attention to FTP, since my group riding is almost always a variable power output. I do like the Power Curve graph that Strava and Golden Cheetah can show. It's the best watts for the ride from any time period, from a few seconds to the length of the ride. I can see my 20 second power, 2 minute power, 5 minute, etc. These all are quite low after around 20 minutes, since I just never go all-out for more than 15-20 minutes at a time. But the shorter time period numbers are useful for pacing. I like it.
10-16-24, 06:18 PM
#6
just another gosling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,815
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Liked 2,129 Times
in
1,508 Posts
My practice has been to find a long relatively even climb. I climb for a while, then increase power until I start panting, note the number, then back off until the panting stops, and repeat that process maybe three times, noting the power at the beginning of panting. Hopefully, that number will be similar at each transition. That's about FTP and LT, which are really the same thing in my understanding. One has to be in good enough condition to do this without much drift. My experience is that when I've been in good shape, I could hold a power just below panting for quite a while, which seems to me to be the Functional part of FTP. That onset-of-panting point is known as VT2, the second ventilation transition point.
https://vo2master.com/blog/ventilato...lds-explained/
This same process can be done on a trainer, just gradually increasing speed after a long warmup. I also don't pay much attention to FTP when I'm riding, but it's useful for calculating the zone boundaries, which affect one's training process.
https://vo2master.com/blog/ventilato...lds-explained/
This same process can be done on a trainer, just gradually increasing speed after a long warmup. I also don't pay much attention to FTP when I'm riding, but it's useful for calculating the zone boundaries, which affect one's training process.
__________________
Results matter
Results matter
10-16-24, 07:48 PM
#7
Version 7.0
In San Diego there is the Fiesta Island Road at Mission Bay that is a 4.2 mile flat loop. And they have time trials from time to time where the road is closed to traffic. Enter a 40 km time trial in the Merckx category and ride your road bike and record your average power. Or just show up any time and ride all out for an hour or any protocol that you like.
If I were to use my current FTP that is being calculated from my critical power curve and attempt to ride a 40 km TT on Fiesta I would probably die like a dog. Why? I have not been doing 10 minute + efforts at FTP and it take practice to gain the mental focus to actually make sustained, high power for an hour. Interestingly, some cyclists and runners are naturally good at constant power and do quite well when they try to ride or run an hour.
I would use one of the many protocols that available on the web or via training apps. Also, I suggest reading Coggan's book Training and Racing with a Power Meter. Good luck
If I were to use my current FTP that is being calculated from my critical power curve and attempt to ride a 40 km TT on Fiesta I would probably die like a dog. Why? I have not been doing 10 minute + efforts at FTP and it take practice to gain the mental focus to actually make sustained, high power for an hour. Interestingly, some cyclists and runners are naturally good at constant power and do quite well when they try to ride or run an hour.
I would use one of the many protocols that available on the web or via training apps. Also, I suggest reading Coggan's book Training and Racing with a Power Meter. Good luck
10-17-24, 11:00 AM
#8
Senior Member
I understand an FTP calculation is best done with a 60 min test on a flat windless road, but 15 minutes will suffice.
Living in San Diego, there aren't any roads I'm aware of that meet those criteria.
Is there any reason any other ride as an "out and back" wouldn't work if the grade was mild?
Since FTP measures leg power, I'm not understanding how the road matters much.
Living in San Diego, there aren't any roads I'm aware of that meet those criteria.
Is there any reason any other ride as an "out and back" wouldn't work if the grade was mild?
Since FTP measures leg power, I'm not understanding how the road matters much.
Likes For hubcyclist:
10-17-24, 11:10 AM
#9
dot dash
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,639
Bikes: Shmikes
Liked 6,222 Times
in
3,351 Posts
The "F" in FTP stands for "functional," and it's a functional way to estimate a threshold, as opposed to the way it was done at the time which was to test in a laboratory while hooked up to a metabolic cart that measured HR, blood lactate, exhaled gases and riding an exercise bike. The threshold it was trying to estimate was an anchor point for assessing and assigning work load, but there are other thresholds that could be used. FTP was just a ballpark rule-of-thumb procedure that let you approximate the threshold if you had an on-bike power meter.
So the bottom line is that although Andy Coggan intended that FTP be an estimator of maximum lactate steady state, he purposefully left the exact protocol for measuring FTP kinda amorphous. You're using an practical, functional, test to approximate something else that's hard to measure without an laboratory and expensive equipment. Coaches who needed a practical way to implement a test they could give their clients are the ones who came up with increasingly specific prescriptions for how to measure FTP, forgetting what the "F" was for, and mostly unclear on what the F they were doing.
People typically use FTP either as an anchor point for training programs or, more commonly, as a tool for measuring your tool -- and if you use it for the latter case, you're mostly a tool.
So I haven't done a formal FTP test for many years. I can mostly set my training levels by doing a training session and deciding whether it was too easy (in which case I raise my estimate of FTP) or, more commonly, deciding it was too hard (in which case I lower it). Lather, rinse, repeat. I don't worry about a 60 minute test.
So the bottom line is that although Andy Coggan intended that FTP be an estimator of maximum lactate steady state, he purposefully left the exact protocol for measuring FTP kinda amorphous. You're using an practical, functional, test to approximate something else that's hard to measure without an laboratory and expensive equipment. Coaches who needed a practical way to implement a test they could give their clients are the ones who came up with increasingly specific prescriptions for how to measure FTP, forgetting what the "F" was for, and mostly unclear on what the F they were doing.
People typically use FTP either as an anchor point for training programs or, more commonly, as a tool for measuring your tool -- and if you use it for the latter case, you're mostly a tool.
So I haven't done a formal FTP test for many years. I can mostly set my training levels by doing a training session and deciding whether it was too easy (in which case I raise my estimate of FTP) or, more commonly, deciding it was too hard (in which case I lower it). Lather, rinse, repeat. I don't worry about a 60 minute test.
Last edited by MoAlpha; 10-17-24 at 11:16 AM.
10-17-24, 04:15 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Australia
Posts: 868
Bikes: 2002 Trek 5200 (US POSTAL), 2020 Canyon Aeroad SL
Liked 714 Times
in
350 Posts
FTP is not 60 minute power, it's been conflated over the years and Dr. Coggan himself has said as much, it's more like 40-70min maximum, even going as low as 35min. You'd then use threshold training blocks to build time to exhaustion so you can extend it from, say, 35min, to 60min.
^ This. I've tested my "FTP" using many of the methods, classic 20-minute, the 8-minute, Wahoo's 4DP test, Garmin's post-ride calculation, ramp test, etc. All give me a fairly similar result in fact, and that number is one there's no way I could sustain for an hour!
10-17-24, 04:35 PM
#11
dot dash
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,639
Bikes: Shmikes
Liked 6,222 Times
in
3,351 Posts
^ This. I've tested my "FTP" using many of the methods, classic 20-minute, the 8-minute, Wahoo's 4DP test, Garmin's post-ride calculation, ramp test, etc. All give me a fairly similar result in fact, and that number is one there's no way I could sustain for an hour!
