hemprider

No its not. Salt is absolutely unneeded, i've been salt free for about a month with fantastic results. Check out durianrider on youtube the guy is a ultra-endurance athlete in aus that has not eaten salt in 2 years, he does 24 hour endurance marathons on nothing but fruit and water. Show me any bit of literature that says salt is a necessity in any way shape or form, if your doctor recommend you eat more salt he is a fool.

Samurais used salt to commit suicide, if you drink sea water you will die, but then they dehydrate the seawater and make salt, does that make sense to you? Why would you put that stuff in your body?

CycleBiker

4% of the Caucasian population carries a Cystic Fibrosis gene. You do not have CF with only one gene - you need two genes, one from each parent, to have CF.

CF is a recessive gene and is only a fraction of a percent in the African population but 4% in the Caucasian populations. This difference comes about because of the effects it has on the body of a single gene carrier.

Because a carrier only has one gene instead of two only half the bodies cells are affected. This has two effects: upon contracting Cholera only half the bodies cells open up and dump fluid so the CF carrier has a better chance of surviving Cholera than the normal population. This accounts for high prevalence of a nominally recessive gene.

The other effect of a CF gene is that the carrier loses excess electrolyte upon perspiration though not as much as a CF sufferer. (In fact measurement of the saltiness of the individuals sweat used to be a standard test for Cystic Fibrosis). The result of this is that in a hot climate CF carriers are frequently sick and fail to procreate to the same degree as others, gaining an advantage only during Cholera outbreaks.

With a prevalence as high as 4% in the Caucasian population there are obviously a lot of unknowing CF carriers out there and while it is a matter of little concern among the general population, it should be a matter of great concern among those undertaking arduous exercise in hot weather.

A higher than normal concentration of electrolyte in ones perspiration is an indication that one carries a Cystic Fibrosis gene and the individual must take great care to maintain electrolyte levels (usually with combined sodium and potassium chloride tablets "Thermotabs" when perspiring heavily).

ericm979

There's literally hundreds, but here is one:


https://jap.physiology.org/cgi/conten...ract/86/6/1847

Sodium-free fluid ingestion decreases plasma sodium during exercise in the heat
D. M. J. Vrijens and N. J. Rehrer

School of Physical Education, Otago University, Dunedin, New Zealand

This study assessed whether replacing sweat losses with sodium-free fluid can lower the plasma sodium concentration and thereby precipitate the development of hyponatremia. Ten male endurance athletes participated in one 1-h exercise pretrial to estimate fluid needs and two 3-h experimental trials on a cycle ergometer at 55% of maximum O2 consumption at 34°C and 65% relative humidity. In the experimental trials, fluid loss was replaced by distilled water (W) or a sodium-containing (18 mmol/l) sports drink, Gatorade (G). Six subjects did not complete 3 h in trial W, and four did not complete 3 h in trial G. The rate of change in plasma sodium concentration in all subjects, regardless of exercise time completed, was greater with W than with G (-2.48 ± 2.25 vs. -0.86 ± 1.61 mmol · l-1 · h-1, P = 0.0198). One subject developed hyponatremia (plasma sodium 128 mmol/l) at exhaustion (2.5 h) in the W trial. A decrease in sodium concentration was correlated with decreased exercise time (R = 0.674; P = 0.022). A lower rate of urine production correlated with a greater rate of sodium decrease (R = -0.478; P = 0.0447). Sweat production was not significantly correlated with plasma sodium reduction. The results show that decreased plasma sodium concentration can result from replacement of sweat losses with plain W, when sweat losses are large, and can precipitate the development of hyponatremia, particularly in individuals who have a decreased urine production during exercise. Exercise performance is also reduced with a decrease in plasma sodium concentration. We, therefore, recommend consumption of a sodium-containing beverage to compensate for large sweat losses incurred during exercise.





Drinking water can kill you (if you drink enough to get acute hyponatremia or "water intoxication"). Why would you put that stuff in your body?

hemprider

I wrote I didn't eat salt. Salt isn't sodium. I get all the sodium I need from fruits and vegetables. Of course you need sodium without it you will die, but the amount of sodium in salt is way more than human needs.

Sodium/Potassium work together to let water into cells, potassium pulls water in and sodium pulls water out. So if you eat too much sodium your cells will never be fully hydrated, and if you eat no sodium then your cells will explode(hyponatremia) from too much water and you will die.

This is a ridiculous statement I never said you didn't need sodium, I said you didn't need salt and you don't. Of course you need water, without water life wouldn't exist.

sknhgy 

Not trying to one-up anyone, but I can sweat profusely in cool weather with little to moderate effort. I am a sweat-hog.

Pat

That just is not true Hemprider. I think you got a bit carried away.

First off, salt is a generic chemical term. It can be CaCl2, LiCl, LiF, KCL, and so on. What we generally call "salt" is NaCl or sodium chloride.

Sodium is the dominant cation (positive ion) in human blood & plasma. You will perish without sodium. The modern diet tends to be sodium rich so most people have problems with too much. Very few people have too little.

In ancient times, NaCL was quite valuab le. It often was as expensive as precious metals. The term "salary" comes from the Roman word for salt because legionaires were, at times, paid a salt ration. It also gave rise to the term being "worth his salt".

Fruits and vegetables are very low in Sodium. I bet that runner gets his sodium in some form. Some "healthy" foods like ramon noodles have incredible sodium levels. So that anecdote does not pass in my opinion.

On long hot summer rides in Central FL, I sweat profusely. I have suffered hyponatriumia a number of times. That is low sodium levels. It is the result of sweating a bunch and replacing the sweat with water. Electrolyte drinks will not help because they are low in sodium (sodium makes the drink way to "salty" tasting for people to drink it). Hyponatriumia has symptoms such as upset stomach, nausea, weakness, disorientation. I have had these. I have not pushed on into convulsions and death. It did not seem to be a good idea somehow. Think of what I missed!

Anyrate, I carry NaCL on long hot rides. If I find myself liking my lips to get the salt from the sweat, I know I am getting there especially if I have gone through about 6 water bottles. I will stop and eat about a teaspoon or 2 of NaCl. If I am pretty far gone, instead of having a gag effect, it tastes almost good.

This is a pretty rare condition. I don't know of anyone else who has had it. To get it, you have to sweat a bunch, drink a bunch of water and keep at it for hours. Most people just do not sweat that much.

ChristopherM

If you sweat a lot, you are going to leave a lot of salt residue. Particularly if the air is dry. While riding the Hotter n Hell Hundred, my jersey remains mostly dry but my chin straps have a white crust, all the dark spots on my jersey are white with salt and I've got salt powder all over.
Riding the same distance in a humid environment leaves me a lot more wet with sweat and leaves a lot less noticeable salt residue.

And someone who doesn't know the difference in drinking lethal amounts of sea water and having a healthy diet that includes salt has got to be smoking something.

hemprider

Ignorance is bliss

ChristopherM

^The pot calling the kettle black.^

You might see the forest if there weren't so many darn trees in the way.

CycleBiker

My bet is that you are one of the 4% of people who carry a cystis fibrosis gene. Get some Thermotabs. They have a balanced amount of potassium as well as sodium in them.

Pinyon

I've never known anyone that rides hard that does not have salt build-up on places like their jersey, shorts, face, etc. It is VERY common to see salt crust on people's cycling shorts as they cool down and dry-out after they ride.

chuckrox

Hemp you're taking a pretty narrow/idealistic view IMO. It's easy/trendy to "demonize" salt in general but the fact is when you sweat, you lose it, and it needs to be replaced. I'm all for not-eating-more-sodium-than-is-needed (it is a problem!) but please don't go overboard with ur evangelism.

To OP: I don't know if I'm an average or heavy sweater, but face-salt-crust is pretty normal, it makes sense, I wouldn't worry about it.

Richard Cranium

Seeing "white stuff" on your body as a result of exercising means that you were sweating heavily during low humidity conditions that allowed for the water in your perspiration to evaporate before the sodium chloride is carried off.

This means that you had enough sodium in your system for it to appear in your evaporated sweat.

Since healthy hydration levels are a function of individual needs and specific environmental conditions there is nothing about nutritional (or mineral status) to be determined from your comments.

The fact that you are exercising to the extent to cause these "sweat stains" - means that you are somewhat healthy and exercising with intensity in hot weather. You'll have to figure out the rest.

etothepii

I just ran a marathon this weekend, and just about everyone at the finish line had salty faces.

hemprider

Please explain why i can eat no salt and manage to do intense workouts on a daily basis in some of the hottest weather around(socal). According to you guys i should be dead...

CycleBiker

Unless you are carrying a cystic fibrosis gene you should be OK. Not sure which of the posters you are relating to here but any normal person should be able to get by without electrolyte supplements except possibly in circumstances like the "Hotter than Hell Hundred" or "Firecracker Century"

gregf83 

If you're doing them daily they are likely either:
a) not intense or,
b) short
In either case you wouldn't need any extra sodium.

CycleBiker

Not sure I agree with you there gregf, The key is NEED. Normal people should not NEED electrolyte supplements under such circumstances, they just might perform better with them especially if it's an all day thing.

gregf83 

Sure, but most people aren't doing intense 'all day things' on a daily basis.

CycleBiker

..... so you're agreeing with me.

palesaint

Well, since we're discussing all this in a TRAINING forum, I think he's not agreeing with you.

We're not normal. We train hard and push our bodies, resulting in a COMPLETE imbalance on the bike. We tax our systems to such a degree that supplementing our effort with calories and electrolytes is essential. To mention that we should be doing all this with only the sodium in a chicken breast and apple is ridiculous and can be very dangerous.

You need to read your body and do what feels right. Ignore the crap being spewed about sodium being evil, damaged palate, etc and consume what your body needs. I have a relatively low sodium diet in general, but supplement with 100mg/hour on the bike. My body appreciates it.

umd

This is a silly debate; most people are using "salt" and "sodium" interchangeably, and hemprider is just being ridiculously pedantic. It is true that nobody needs "salt" specifically but we clearly need our electrolyte levels, including "sodium" to stay in balance. That means replacing what we use. Because the western diet is very sodium-heavy, most people under most circumstances probably don't usually need to take supplemental sodium, whatever the form, but it is certainly possible to exercise with enough intensity and duration to deplete your sodium levels to the point where supplementation is at least a good idea, if not necessary.

I rarely cramp so I never think to do it myself, but I have gotten myself into situation where I was completely shot, crusted, and cramped. Racing for 3 hours in 110-120 dry heat in August and for ~8 hours in 80-100 degree heat September (Everest Challenge) both did it.

hemprider

I get on average 300-500 mg of sodium a day, my bike routines consist of 1-2 hour sessions that consist of mainly hills (PV is my main training spot atm). Some how i manage to do it or maybe I'm just a big liar? lol

hemprider

This is from another site,

"Want to find out if you're eating too much salt?

If you're consuming any table salt, whether is be sea salt, rock salt, or something fancy with a name like raw Himalayan salt, you're eating too much, and science is pretty clear that the habit will harm you.

Our culture shovels down salt in such huge quantities that we hardly stop to question the habit, but think about it in terms of sea water. Everyone knows that if you're stranded on a desert island, you can be surrounded by an ocean of water that's useless because you'll die if you try to drink it.

What do you die of when you drink it? Dehydration. Ponder this for a moment. Salt has such a dehydrating effect that you can drink a gallon of water laced with it and still die of dehydration.

Our bodies clearly reject salt. Put salt in an open wound and it will burn painfully. Drink salt water and you'll throw it up. Put salt on a slug, which lacks protective skin, and its body will "melt" from dehydration because it uses the water in its body in an attempt to dilute the burning substance.
Salt is such an effective killer that it was once used as a form of suicide by the Chinese (1).

We Can Have Too Much Salt, But We Need Saline
The body needs saline to function, but we must make a distinction between extracted sodium chloride salt, which is an irritant, toxic, and deadly (1) if consumed in high quantities, and the sodium and other salts that occur naturally in whole plant foods.
The later is a nutrient important to every cell in the body, and eating celery, tomatoes, and other vegetables gives us the organic salts and other minerals out bodies need in just the right amounts and combinations.

Cells rely on a regulated ratio of extracellular sodium and intracellular potassium, and when this is thrown out of whack it seriously compromises bodily functions.

There are plenty of expensive salts out there. Some is mined from the dead sea or the Himalayas. Raw food gurus hawk the stuff to make a quick buck, but the nutritional claims they make about it are false.

They'll tell you that you need extracted minerals to meet the deficiencies of modern life. We need many minerals, but we need them in the quantities and the form in which they occur naturally in whole food so they are a benefit and not a burden to our system. This is similar to how we need vitamins, but they're harmful to us when extracted in pill form.

Too Much Salt Will Damage Your Health
There are so many reasons not to eat extracted salt that its overwhelming. For one, you only need to eat about 1 g per kg of body weight to kill yourself with it (1).
For a 220 pound man (100 kg) that would be 100 grams, which is just shy of four ounces. We average 9 grams a day in the U.S., so the average American eats 1/10th of a lethal dosage for a large man every day.

But even at non-lethal doses, it's still not good for us.

Conservative health organizations like the American Medical Association and the World Health Organization tell us we're harming ourselves by eating so much.

We know that sodium consumption raises blood pressure (2), causes stomach cancer (3) and reduces bone density and contributes to osteoporosis (4).

In most people the consumption of salt leads to water retention because the body needs the water to render the salt inert until it can be expelled. It's not unusual for a person to be carrying around five pounds or more of extra water weight."

umd

I hate how much salt/sodium prepared food has, and I never add salt to anything. It drives me nuts on those cooking competition shows when they should BLAND, NEEDS MORE SALT!. Arg, I want to reach through the TV and throttle them.