E-bike tourers
05-14-17, 04:56 PM
#51
I think the best case analogy is an escalator because some take a step here & there, BUT most ride up under power, And all are able to claim they went up five-fights.
The reality is taking the escalator is NOT THE SAME as taking the stairs.
Escalators are motor powered, stairs are not.
ebikes are motor powered, bicycles are not.
The reality is taking the escalator is NOT THE SAME as taking the stairs.
Escalators are motor powered, stairs are not.
ebikes are motor powered, bicycles are not.
Last edited by BigAura; 05-14-17 at 05:23 PM.
05-14-17, 05:06 PM
#52
Senior Member
To tell the truth, I have never used full power, I also have never smoked Crack Cocain and for the same reason, I don't want to get hooked on it. 250w may be fine if you ride a stripped down cruiser on flat roads, I don't know. I Do know that even a 500w motor wouldn't take me where I go with the gear I carry. When I get to ride Generals Hwy (198) in central California to General Sherman Tree I want to be able to enjoy the whole ride and only stop when I want to, not because I just coughed up a lung.
05-14-17, 05:39 PM
#55
You people hiding behind those with disabilities need to wake up and see how these motors are being labeled and marketed. You're more than likely going to create more people with disabilities than actually helping the few users that do need assistance.
Last edited by BigAura; 05-14-17 at 05:47 PM.
05-14-17, 05:52 PM
#56
Senior Member
E-Assist IS motorized when talking technically, but... While it's NOT exactly the same as touring 100% under your own power, I will give you guys that. 
The question is where does motorised assist turn into a motorized bike, (moped)... My 350 watt assist that I HAVE to pedal to get anywhere, IS basically a bicycle IMO... About the same difference as between a 27 speed and a single speed touring bike, oh, sorry bicycle. As, an "assist" is, an assist, whether mechanical or electric when you really get down to it. 
In other words I use an electric "assist" for 30Km out of the 100Kms I ride in a day, with my set up. That still means I pedalled 70Km, on my own, every day... when I was on my "tours"...
Probably about the same difference as using the 27 gears (a mechanical type of assistance) for the 30KM while not riding a single speed touring bicycle on 100Km days...
The question is where does motorised assist turn into a motorized bike, (moped)... My 350 watt assist that I HAVE to pedal to get anywhere, IS basically a bicycle IMO... About the same difference as between a 27 speed and a single speed touring bike, oh, sorry bicycle. As, an "assist" is, an assist, whether mechanical or electric when you really get down to it. In other words I use an electric "assist" for 30Km out of the 100Kms I ride in a day, with my set up. That still means I pedalled 70Km, on my own, every day... when I was on my "tours"...
Probably about the same difference as using the 27 gears (a mechanical type of assistance) for the 30KM while not riding a single speed touring bicycle on 100Km days...
Last edited by 350htrr; 05-14-17 at 06:03 PM. Reason: add stuff
05-14-17, 06:10 PM
#57
Senior Member
05-14-17, 06:23 PM
#58
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In my state the E-bike sellers were lobbying the state to allow E-bikes on the state bicycle/pedestrian trails. They were claiming that the motor is just for assistance for those that needed help. But they wanted the rules to allow up to a 750 watt motor. On several occasions I have been pedaling slowly up hills while being passed by obese people at high speed on their E bikes (which were illegal on the trials) while those obese people thought it was so great to be outside getting exercise without even having to pedal as they blast up the hills with their 750 watt motors.
When I with muscle power can put out 120 to maybe on occasion up to 150 watts (for short times) of power and the E bike sellers say that 750 watts is just a bit of assistance, that is a crock. Such E bikes are motorized vehicles and should be used on the roads where other motorcycles are used.
And I really do not want to see E bikes trying to justify using a hiker biker site in a campground, they should use the same campsites where motorcycle riders are.
When I with muscle power can put out 120 to maybe on occasion up to 150 watts (for short times) of power and the E bike sellers say that 750 watts is just a bit of assistance, that is a crock. Such E bikes are motorized vehicles and should be used on the roads where other motorcycles are used.
And I really do not want to see E bikes trying to justify using a hiker biker site in a campground, they should use the same campsites where motorcycle riders are.
05-14-17, 06:38 PM
#59
In my state the E-bike sellers were lobbying the state to allow E-bikes on the state bicycle/pedestrian trails. They were claiming that the motor is just for assistance for those that needed help. But they wanted the rules to allow up to a 750 watt motor. On several occasions I have been pedaling slowly up hills while being passed by obese people at high speed on their E bikes (which were illegal on the trials) while those obese people thought it was so great to be outside getting exercise without even having to pedal as they blast up the hills with their 750 watt motors.
When I with muscle power can put out 120 to maybe on occasion up to 150 watts (for short times) of power and the E bike sellers say that 750 watts is just a bit of assistance, that is a crock. Such E bikes are motorized vehicles and should be used on the roads where other motorcycles are used.
And I really do not want to see E bikes trying to justify using a hiker biker site in a campground, they should use the same campsites where motorcycle riders are.
When I with muscle power can put out 120 to maybe on occasion up to 150 watts (for short times) of power and the E bike sellers say that 750 watts is just a bit of assistance, that is a crock. Such E bikes are motorized vehicles and should be used on the roads where other motorcycles are used.
And I really do not want to see E bikes trying to justify using a hiker biker site in a campground, they should use the same campsites where motorcycle riders are.
05-14-17, 07:14 PM
#60
E-biking for me has been restorative therapy for a sudden, permanent medical condition. It was the suggested treatment by my primary care doctor for a leg disability. Not like walking steps on the the escalator or a fake experience like professional wrestling.
I've had 4 heart attacks over the past 25 years including a 45 minute cardiac arrest and a quintuple bypass. Add to that resume... stage 1 rectal cancer. The latest... a recently torn femoral nerve/quad muscle and arthritis bad enough to make me walk with a limp. I'm still cycling with the aid of an electric assist.
from electric bike sub-forum...
Anybody who has a torque sensor pedal assist (such as BionX) will likely ride harder than before without it. That's just how it works. One does not get much reward from the motor without pedaling hard along with it. You quickly learn to minimize use of the throttle and high assist levels in order to extend battery range.
Yes, we will climb hills a lot faster now than the conventional cyclist. This may bruise the ego of the rider passed thus the source of antagonism voiced in this and other forums. I will always point out my motor when passing the 25 year old on a Cervelo so they don't take it personally. When I exceed 20mph the motor cuts off and I'm working harder than the conventional rider as I start fighting the weight and motor drag of my assist.
As previously posted, disability happens. Last year at this time I wouldn't have considered an ebike for all of the reasons posted by others above. But suddenly, without warning, poop happened and I tore the nerve with a simple twisting fall! I've recovered from the cancer and heart attacks but the torn nerve is permanent! Next year it could be BigAura, NoControl, alan s or Tourist in MSN.
I doubt that I can return to long distance bike camping/touring again with just a 40-50 mile range between gas stations but I can still enjoy local cycling and short overnights like the rest of you. I resent the animosity expressed above and below.
I've had 4 heart attacks over the past 25 years including a 45 minute cardiac arrest and a quintuple bypass. Add to that resume... stage 1 rectal cancer. The latest... a recently torn femoral nerve/quad muscle and arthritis bad enough to make me walk with a limp. I'm still cycling with the aid of an electric assist.
from electric bike sub-forum...
I've found that my torque sensor rewards me more the harder I pedal thus I'll put in more effort of my own to reap the benefit. In the past I'd twiddle up the 2 mile hill up to my mountainside NH house at 5 mph in fairly low gear, 32x34 or 22x34 on a bad day. If I worked over twice as hard in a slightly higher gear I'd be going maybe 8mph. No return for the effort so I'd go back to the 5 mph and arrive home without even breathing hard. With the electric assist I can ride 10-15-20mph (if I'm feeling spunky) up the same hill in the big chain ring, 44x13 or 15, and arrive home winded and exhilarated. That reward is like a carrot out in front that makes me work harder with the assist than without
Yes, we will climb hills a lot faster now than the conventional cyclist. This may bruise the ego of the rider passed thus the source of antagonism voiced in this and other forums. I will always point out my motor when passing the 25 year old on a Cervelo so they don't take it personally. When I exceed 20mph the motor cuts off and I'm working harder than the conventional rider as I start fighting the weight and motor drag of my assist.
As previously posted, disability happens. Last year at this time I wouldn't have considered an ebike for all of the reasons posted by others above. But suddenly, without warning, poop happened and I tore the nerve with a simple twisting fall! I've recovered from the cancer and heart attacks but the torn nerve is permanent! Next year it could be BigAura, NoControl, alan s or Tourist in MSN.
I doubt that I can return to long distance bike camping/touring again with just a 40-50 mile range between gas stations but I can still enjoy local cycling and short overnights like the rest of you. I resent the animosity expressed above and below.
Last edited by BobG; 05-15-17 at 06:21 AM.
05-14-17, 07:19 PM
#61
Don't they have up to 42 teeth on the cassette?
you don't have the patience to crank up the hill at almost no effort? Time is the factor?
Sorry for you.
you don't have the patience to crank up the hill at almost no effort? Time is the factor?
Sorry for you.
05-14-17, 07:55 PM
#62
Nope, it's more the fun factor of simultaneously getting more speed AND more exercise. The more fun you have cycling the more you do it. Fast = fun!
My nerve disability is so bad that kids were passing me on the sidewalk. I could no longer exercise hard enough on my manual bike to get any real cardiovascular benefits. My right leg is too weak to pedal hard without the assist.
My nerve disability is so bad that kids were passing me on the sidewalk. I could no longer exercise hard enough on my manual bike to get any real cardiovascular benefits. My right leg is too weak to pedal hard without the assist.
Last edited by BobG; 05-14-17 at 08:44 PM.
05-14-17, 08:01 PM
#63
Senior Member
I am very interested in electric boating. Not sure it will be what I want to see over the decades, but there the potential is vast. There are no hills on the ocean, and the winds one toys with can be avoided in areas like the doldrums that boaters have traditionally avoided. Boats can carry enough solar panels even at current technology that large yachts have gone solar round the world. Might be a little boring with neither the speed of power nor the challenge of sail. If it ever gets going there is the potential of vastly more cruisers which would reduce the freedom even today's cruiser's enjoy. But right now it is viable, and there is no reaction against techno tramps. Aux contraire, the solar pioneers are feted wherever they go. For now.
An inside look at the world's largest solar-powered boat | The Verge
I am not sure what happened to the solar boat chronicles, but they made it a fair distance in their trimaran.
Of course all these stunt boats have limits that a true platform boat does not, as it can use whatever form of power is best, without having to concern itself with a limited form of power.
An inside look at the world's largest solar-powered boat | The Verge
I am not sure what happened to the solar boat chronicles, but they made it a fair distance in their trimaran.
Of course all these stunt boats have limits that a true platform boat does not, as it can use whatever form of power is best, without having to concern itself with a limited form of power.
I realize this isn't a sailing forum, but those small (40ft ish and under) diesel-electric rigs with solar/windmill charging battery banks while under sail are pretty nifty. All-electric seems like it'd be way cleaner and easier to deal with as far as getting fluids, small parts and junk all over your boat go.
05-14-17, 09:11 PM
#64
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As e-bikes get more popular I hope that users will be polite on the bike paths though i don't have much confidence in that seeing how many 'regular' bikers are a bit rude on the bike path. IE passing more closely than necessary, giving passing warning at last second etc.
OTOH a friend used to be fairly active & fit but got a nerve/muscle spasm condition that makes using regular bike & even standard e-bike impossible. About 3 years ago he thought about getting a recumbent e-trike so he could go biking on the path with his family. Choices were both limited & expensive...now I see there are more options but unfortunately the family got out of the biking habit & left all their nice bikes outside to thoroughly rust.
OTOH a friend used to be fairly active & fit but got a nerve/muscle spasm condition that makes using regular bike & even standard e-bike impossible. About 3 years ago he thought about getting a recumbent e-trike so he could go biking on the path with his family. Choices were both limited & expensive...now I see there are more options but unfortunately the family got out of the biking habit & left all their nice bikes outside to thoroughly rust.
05-14-17, 10:08 PM
#65
Senior Member
Wow.. awesome. Is there a brownie badge or some sort of ribbon you can get for that.
I mean really, riding a bicycle.. how cool is that. I can see why one would want to distinguish from the "uncool" electric crowd. None of the other grade school kids use those.
You guys crack me up. It's like rhe whole Village People line up strutting around on stage.
I mean really, riding a bicycle.. how cool is that. I can see why one would want to distinguish from the "uncool" electric crowd. None of the other grade school kids use those.
You guys crack me up. It's like rhe whole Village People line up strutting around on stage.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-14-17 at 10:14 PM.
05-14-17, 10:10 PM
#66
Senior Member
E-Assist IS motorized when talking technically, but... While it's NOT exactly the same as touring 100% under your own power, I will give you guys that. The question is where does motorised assist turn into a motorized bike, (moped)... My 350 watt assist that I HAVE to pedal to get anywhere, IS basically a bicycle IMO... About the same difference as between a 27 speed and a single speed touring bike, oh, sorry bicycle. As, an "assist" is, an assist, whether mechanical or electric when you really get down to it.
In other words I use an electric "assist" for 30Km out of the 100Kms I ride in a day, with my set up. That still means I pedalled 70Km, on my own, every day... when I was on my "tours"... Probably about the same difference as using the 27 gears (a mechanical type of assistance) for the 30KM while not riding a single speed touring bicycle on 100Km days...
The question is where does motorised assist turn into a motorized bike, (moped)... My 350 watt assist that I HAVE to pedal to get anywhere, IS basically a bicycle IMO... About the same difference as between a 27 speed and a single speed touring bike, oh, sorry bicycle. As, an "assist" is, an assist, whether mechanical or electric when you really get down to it. In other words I use an electric "assist" for 30Km out of the 100Kms I ride in a day, with my set up. That still means I pedalled 70Km, on my own, every day... when I was on my "tours"...
Probably about the same difference as using the 27 gears (a mechanical type of assistance) for the 30KM while not riding a single speed touring bicycle on 100Km days...Last edited by Doug64; 05-14-17 at 10:17 PM.
05-14-17, 10:15 PM
#67
Senior Member
and... I actually agree, BUT, assistance, electric or mechanical is assistance... Whether mechanical or electric. Try riding a 23% mile long hill with a 27 speed mechanical assistance and then on a single speed, I can assure you, that you Will find a difference, and single speed riders, riders who ONLY ride single speeds, will call you a cheat...
05-14-17, 10:43 PM
#68
Senior Member
You don't need to justify anything. It's e bike touring. If you enjoy it that's all that matters. Bicycle touring is not supposed to be a competitive sport though sadly, some try to make it that way to stroke their own egos. What's funny is knowing the back story to some of those strokes and realizing there isn't a whole lot of recent touring going on. Lot's of resting on laurels and imagining the future though. Getting out and actually riding keeps it real for me and reminds me that most fellow cyclists on the road don't give a hoot about what you ride - as long as its not a 40' RV pulling an Escalade and a boat.
If you're out touring on an e bike you're doing something which is more than nothing which is what the guy just sitting back and talking about it is doing.
If you're out touring on an e bike you're doing something which is more than nothing which is what the guy just sitting back and talking about it is doing.
05-14-17, 11:20 PM
#69
Senior Member
Yea, I probably should have out it another way, but it's not simple to quantify., the differences but also the similarities of the two type of assistance... (mechanical/electric), compared to a single speed bicycle.
05-15-17, 01:51 AM
#70
Senior Member
and... I actually agree, BUT, assistance, electric or mechanical is assistance... Whether mechanical or electric. Try riding a 23% mile long hill with a 27 speed mechanical assistance and then on a single speed, I can assure you, that you Will find a difference, and single speed riders, riders who ONLY ride single speeds, will call you a cheat...
maybe have 27 gears, but can only use one at a time.
the only real cheaters are the ones running high pressure tires.
pneumatic assistance is for wussies!
real men ride on naked steel rims......
05-15-17, 04:32 AM
#71
and... I actually agree, BUT, assistance, electric or mechanical is assistance... Whether mechanical or electric. Try riding a 23% mile long hill with a 27 speed mechanical assistance and then on a single speed, I can assure you, that you Will find a difference, and single speed riders, riders who ONLY ride single speeds, will call you a cheat...
Motorized bikes are called motor-bikes they have motors.
As far as assistance is concerned there are plenty of special needs bicycles that don't have motors.
There are plenty of forums for people who do enjoy the motor-bike like the Electricbike. That where people discuss electric motor-powered-bikes. There's even a sub-forum here and that's where you need to hang. You need to quit your trolling.
Last edited by BigAura; 05-15-17 at 05:11 AM.
05-15-17, 05:23 AM
#72
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Here I was, intentionally overloaded to test the system, on a multi-day ride. Yes, I pedaled the entire way (if I hadn't, the bike wouldn't have moved).
Sure, it may not be your prefered approach to touring; however, that does not change that It is bike (well, trike) touring.
It has seen some changes since this picture; but the idea remains the same. As far as how often I have to plug it in, I have never plugged it in.
Sure, it may not be your prefered approach to touring; however, that does not change that It is bike (well, trike) touring.
It has seen some changes since this picture; but the idea remains the same. As far as how often I have to plug it in, I have never plugged it in.
Last edited by Robert C; 05-15-17 at 05:39 AM.
05-15-17, 05:33 AM
#73
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Wow.. awesome. Is there a brownie badge or some sort of ribbon you can get for that.
I mean really, riding a bicycle.. how cool is that. I can see why one would want to distinguish from the "uncool" electric crowd. None of the other grade school kids use those.
You guys crack me up. It's like the whole Village People line up strutting around on stage.
I mean really, riding a bicycle.. how cool is that. I can see why one would want to distinguish from the "uncool" electric crowd. None of the other grade school kids use those.
You guys crack me up. It's like the whole Village People line up strutting around on stage.
Any bike with a motorized assist diminishes the human-powered vehicle aspect of it. Surely there are some able-bodied folks who own an E-bike just for the novelty of it. I'm all for anything that helps lessen the carbon footprint, truly, however keeping my opinion within the context of the thread title, I think that if you need a motor on your bike to tour, you may as well ride a real motorcycle.
05-15-17, 05:34 AM
#74
Nope, it's more the fun factor of simultaneously getting more speed AND more exercise. The more fun you have cycling the more you do it. Fast = fun!
My nerve disability is so bad that kids were passing me on the sidewalk. I could no longer exercise hard enough on my manual bike to get any real cardiovascular benefits. My right leg is too weak to pedal hard without the assist.
My nerve disability is so bad that kids were passing me on the sidewalk. I could no longer exercise hard enough on my manual bike to get any real cardiovascular benefits. My right leg is too weak to pedal hard without the assist.
What I do have a problem with is motor-bikes on bicycle-infrastructure, of which there is very little on this planet. The entire world is full of roads built to accommodate motorized vehicles. Please ride there and go as fast as you like!
As far as this particular bicycle-touring-sub-forum...The inclusion and discussion of motor-bikes, power-cells and their charging systems should never be allowed because this is a human-powered-bicycle-touring forum. There are plenty of other sites that enjoy that type of discussion.
Last edited by BigAura; 05-15-17 at 05:53 AM.
05-15-17, 06:06 AM
#75
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Actually, it is a bicycle touring forum. The words "human powered." do not appear in the forum description. The forum description says:
The definition of a bicycle is in statute. It is not whatever we want to pretend it is. Because of this, trikes are also treated as Bicycles, while they are clearly not, by strict definition, bicycles. People here like to throw out terms like Motorcycle, motor-driven cycle, and moped; however, they pretend ignorance that these terms have legal definitions that are not the same as the definition of an e-bike. In fact, many of these statutes specifically exclude e-bikes from their definitions.
Now, whenever it is pointed out that the definition of a "bicycle" is a matter of statute, some sophomoric bloke will present the question "whose statutes" After all, the laws vary throughout the globe." The answer remains quite simple. The statutes that apply are the statutes in the jurisdiction where it is being applied. This means that if I am in Kansas, I apply Kansas statutes. If I am in KSA, I apply KSA statutes.
Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum
Now, whenever it is pointed out that the definition of a "bicycle" is a matter of statute, some sophomoric bloke will present the question "whose statutes" After all, the laws vary throughout the globe." The answer remains quite simple. The statutes that apply are the statutes in the jurisdiction where it is being applied. This means that if I am in Kansas, I apply Kansas statutes. If I am in KSA, I apply KSA statutes.
