tiztim

I weigh 276 and ride 5000 miles a year. I've had a Brooks B17 Champion on my bike for more than a year. Last week rails bent and eventually broke. Brooks makes fine products and the saddle has been in production since 1898. Anyone else know of a Brooks failing this way? Or should I just loose some weight? (no snarky comments, please )

v1k1ng1001

isn't that a warranty issue?

(51)

Damn. I'm 340#. Is failure imminent?!

Tom Stormcrowe

It might be the weight, but I'd suggest trying their warranty. Worth a shot, as they don't publish a weight limit on their saddles. As to snarky comments, not permitted here

KingTermite 

5000 miles is a lot of time on the saddle.

I way (just) over 300 (started at 380) and have been riding for about 2 1/2 years. I've already burned through 2 saddles this way. I expect a Brooks to go 5000 miles on that weight isn't doing too badly. Sorry to say, it likely is. Hopefully getting the weight down (like most of us are trying to do) will help the Brooks last longer.

dobber

What kind of riding are you doing. Road, mountain. Are you bouncing around and jumping? I'd expect a Brooks to fail in the area of the leather (stretching) before the rails would fail. Another factor might be where the clamp is along the length of the rail.

This wouldn't be a Ti railed saddle, would it? I've seen other Ti railed saddles with load limits and I'm pretty sure Phil has a weigh limit on their Ti bottom brackets....or maybe it was Crank Bros and their Ti pedals.

But things happen.

KingTermite 

I've had two saddles in about two years both fail from rails getting bent. Simple road riding. So it doesn't seem unreasonable...and I don't do anywhere near those kind of miles myself.

dobber

I've got 7 Brooks saddles, the oldest (B17) now having probably 4-5000 on/off road miles on it. Aside from having to tweak the nose and lace the skirt it's in great shape. Tip the scales at ~235ish, plus probably another 10-15 when commuting with a messenger bag.

jcm

I was 270 when I got my first Brooks. I'm 235ish+++ now. So far, so good with the rails, but the first one probably could use a tensioning about now. I agree with trying a warantee look.

gosmsgo

Im not a 200# plus fella but I have something to add.

I read that once the leather starts sagging and its touching the rails underneath it then you must tighten it or else the weight sits on those rails and they will break.

metal_cowboy

I am in your weight range and have had the same experience with my Brooks Champion. I think it lasted less than 1K miles. I also ride a standard Brooks B-17 and a sprung brooks and have had no problems with either after 2-3K on each. My champion had the copper rails, I chalked the failure up to those rails not being as strong as the steel ones.

dobber

If the leather has sagged to the point of touching the rails, there are some serious issues.

KingTermite 

There may be a point where you stop stressing the rails..maybe 250ish or so. Both of you guys who haven't had problems are under 250 (or got under 250).

tiztim

Update to my originating post: I contacted Brooks who said it appeared I had a warranty claim and to send to their US distributor, Highway Two in Olney, IL, which I did. They responded the saddle failed because I used a treatment other than Brook's Proofide. I fired off an intemperate reply that Proofide is all I'd ever used. After a bit of thought, I realized I long ago used too much chamois cream one hot summer which soaked through into the leather. So the saddle failed solely from my carelessness. ...I promptly remounted a new B17 to my seat post.

v1k1ng1001

you gotta be kidding me

Air

Whoa - that's interesting.

bcart1991

That sounds like a complete BS reply from Brooks. There is no way using a different leather conditioner would cause the rails to fail.

That's like a car company telling you your suspension fell apart because you used 87 octane gas instead of the prescribed 91 octane.

Unless you used something on the leather known to weaken metal, their response is garbage, pure and simple.

Caincando1

Actually the leather is an integral part of the structure. It keeps the nose and tail from spreading away from each other. If the leather gets to soft or stretches to much the nose and tail will spread apart causing the rails to bend under the weight. I'm not saying they are right to deny the warrantee claim. I just understand how the leather effects the rails.

bcart1991

Oh, didn't know that. Well, then it might be a bit more of an issue. I figured they would make the saddle like most others and have some sort of frame under the leather.

Oy vey, OP might be SOL then.

Neil_B

That is ridiculous. What next, denying a warranty claim because the rider perspired too much? The idea that a bike saddle needs to be coddled so is absurd. So much for the Cult of the Brooks Saddle.

tiztim

"Ridiculous" was my first reaction but when you consider the structure of the saddle: rails and leather both under tension work together to support weight of the rider, not the rails only. This insight may be the brilliance of the originlal design.

For the chamois cream (Eucerin, if I recall), I'll tell you I used a LOT that day and a lot soaked into the leather. The destruction of the leather fiber by the cream (lanolin, emollients, etc.) was obvious. The leather's treated in such a way to accept proofide and (presumably) the ordinary exposure to rain and sweat.

CliftonGK1

I'm not going to defend the CotBS, although I am a member of its ranks.
Any saddle is going to have structural limitations. Those limitations will vary based on the design and construction of the saddle. All those ultralight Ti-railed paper-thin racing saddles? Yeah, they're not designed to hold up under the behind of a guy my size; and I'm a lightweight Clyde at only 235 pounds.
I've got a Brooks B-17 with almost 2600 miles on it. I've used nothing but Proofide and sweat for leather treatment. I have a Velox cover that I put on it even in the mildest of sprinkling rain. Around mile 500, the rails started to squeak at the post clamp. This was because the leather has softened, and as I hit rough roads my weight bowed the leather, forcing the rails to flex slightly, causing the squeak. Some grease fixed that issue. Around mile 1500 I tightened the tensioner bolt a little more because I was getting some hammocking. Around mile 2400 I punched and laced the skirts because just messing with the tensioner wasn't fixing the issue. Now it's solid feeling, but still pliable under my contact points.
Yes, it's taken some work to get it "just right" but I have a feeling I'll get at least another 3 or 4 years from this saddle.
Let me compare that to my other saddles: Less than 1500 miles to most of them, whether they were $20 bone stock PoS that came with the bike or $120 super-deluxe just shy of being custom molded to my cheeks. Right about the time they'd start feeling comfortable, the foam or thin gel would break down, the plastic shell would crack, or the rails would give out. While a saddle is a standard replacement item due to wear and tear, it should last longer than that IMO. Then again, I don't think most companies design their products with the 'generously proportioned' cyclist in mind. I'm guessing that even Brooks, which seems to get the highest accolades around here, doesn't specifically consider 250, 300, and 300+ pound riders when performing their stress/fatigue tests.

Every saddle has its breaking point, and the Brooks can be a bit more particular than others due to the suspended nature of the leather as opposed to a padded hardshell saddle. Mounting the saddle (any saddle, really) too far forward or backward on its rails will place additional stress on them, causing them to fail sooner. In the case of a Brooks, keeping the tension too low will allow for higher flex in the rails causing them to fail sooner. Over-treating the leather will soften it too much and possibly cause failure at the rivets. Under-treating it can leave it vulnerable to the elements and allow it to dry out (cracked leather) or get soaked (over softening, followed by stretching and over drying if you ride it wet and don't treat it afterward.) They are a bit of work to maintain, but in my experience it's at the balance of price to maintenance to durability. My B-17, with a little work, has already outlasted 2 similarly priced hardshell saddles. The two saddles that it's outlasted required absolutely zilch-o in maintenance, though.

jcm

So, let me understand this:

1) Your initial complaint was that the rails failed - not the leather. They are saying that you used chamois cream so often that, in their opinion, it over conditioned the leather thus causing rail failure? I doubt that, especially if you were wearing some reasonable bike shorts.

2) Where did the rails break? Near the clamp? At the weld in the U-frame? At a bend?

Please describe what happened to the leather top? Did it appear to sag to the rails or very near them? Did you use alot of the Proofide as well? Proofide can cause overconditioning if the owner is too generous in it's use. See Brooks' instructions.

3) Broken rails can happen to us clydes. It is the weight of the rider combined with all the thousands of mini-shocks that the rails experience. A longer seat post clamp can help distribute those shocks over more of the rail clamp area. Get one with two adjustment bolts, like a Thompson Elite. Those are for MTB's and will give the saddle a larger platform than a typical roadie saddle with a single bolt. Maybe you've already done this. It's the weight, and that's the problem.

EDIT: CliftonGK1 is spot-on.

hammond9705

Personally I think that their denial of a warranty claim is BS, but as a clyde of similar weight, I know that getting 5k miles out of a saddle is not bad. I broken rails on fewer miles.

Foldable Two

Just a thought:

When these saddles were designed 100+ yrs ago the average rider likely weighed 1/2 of many of the folks posting above weigh!

We have all gotten a bit larger and heavier over the last century.