donoman

Today I went for my first ride in 8 years on my new bicycle. I am trying to get back into shape by riding. I don't care how much weight I lose (currently 6'1 240lbs) but I do want to feel healthier. I drink about a pitcher of beer every week <- I don't think I can stop that habit.

Anyway today I went riding up the hill, where I used to ride when I rode with my school team. I made it to the top, passed another guy (he was skinny, and I'm a fatty--- hee hee), but I feel that I did it with the help of my Clif bar which I had in my back pocket and I ate when I felt pretty desperate and like I was going to die.

So here's the question...
Since I'm trying to get in shape, are these shots of whatever they are... carbs/calories/sugar... Gu/Clif/PowerBars ... are they going to slow my increase in health condition? Or does eating a shot of Gu set me back another beer's worth? I felt an immediate increase in energy by eating my Clif bar today... almost within minutes. Could it have been a mental boost? Yes I ate breakfast (and I rode before lunchtime). How can something "boost" me so quickly and not be detrimental to my health?

I wonder what a pack of Skittles would do for me in a jam...

Okay, I want to lose about 20lbs in an ideal world.

donoman

Basically, I want to get in shape. I don't want to "cheat" myself into thinking I'm getting into better shape by giving my body a calorie boost and just taking advantage of that. I want to know if using these GU or Clif Bars will increase my stamina/power/endurance when I'm NOT using them. Otherwise I don't want to become dependent on them and would rather just feel the hurt or bonk since I'm not riding competitively at this point.

When I raced in college I couldn't afford these things. The one thing I could afford was Cytomax. I would keep it around until I absolutely felt like I was dying then I would use it to boost myself up a bit. I'm not sure if it helped my training but the main goal back then was to go fast. I didn't care about my health, it was all about fun.

Metaluna

My take on it is this: a person in the 200+ weight range will probably burn around 700-1000 calories an hour from vigorous riding (say, 60-80% max HR). A Clif bar is about 250 calories, which is about the limit that your body can absorb in a hour. In my experience, eating a little (and staying well hydrated) will keep you going longer, especially when you get into the 3+ hour rides, so you will burn many more calories overall. If you're just doing 1-2 hour workouts, I've found that eating bars or gels doesn't have as much impact, as your muscles and liver already store more than enough energy (as glycogen) to keep you going as hard as you can pedal for at least an hour or two. But if you're planning a long ride, I'd start eating within the first hour and keep up the 200-300 cal/hour for the duration.

For an hour or less, I'd refrain from eating, but that's just my personal preference. For my typical 25-30 mile workout loop, I might have a gel or Clif bar halfway through, depending on how I'm feeling.

The hardest thing for me about long rides (e.g. 4+ hours) is that I'm just ravenous for like 12 hours after the ride. It's like my body is demanding nutrition to replenish itself, and it's really hard not to overeat. During the ride, however, I don't worry about it.

NickDavid

I was close to being in your shoes last year. In Jan 06' I weighted in at 225lbs. 6 months later, I weighted 170.

I didn't starve myself, but I didn't eat foods containing high amounts of sugar either. You're going to need carbs if you plan on riding alot, just choose them wisely. Get them from whole wheat, brown rice and beans. Eat lean meats in small quanitities.

If you're hungry, your body is telling yourself that you need food. You just need to understand the difference between actually being hungry and not bored. I eat anywhere from 6-7 times a day, which is every 2 hours or so.

Don't starve yourself or your body will shock and start storing fat in a bad way.

Think of your metabolism as a furnace. Keep adding small amounts in all day and it keeps burning hot (fast), put a huge log in every 5 hours and it heats up, then cools down.

Eat right when you wake up and stop with a light meal right before sleep. Try hardboiled eggs (without the yolk).

Any other q's, shoot me a pm.

Wogster

Probably will not make much difference, the mechanism, is that unused calories are converted to fat, that's a well known fact. Energy is stored 3 ways, glycogen in the muscles, glycogen in the liver, and fat. This is all designed for the ancient person, who, when he wanted meat for the barbecue, didn't go to the supermarket and buy it, he picked up his spear, and went out hunting, he had to catch it first. Then run from the lions, tigers and bears that wanted to relieve him of it. Fat is intended for dry seasons when

Muscle glycogen is used for the beginning of a sprint, liver glycogen is then released into the blood to supplement the muscle glycogen, it can also be supplemented with sugar intake at the right time. What you want to lose fat, is to burn fat stores, but they don't burn quickly, so you want a slower burn rate, so your burning fat, instead of glycogen. This means that 40km at 20km/h works better for weight loss, then 20km at 40km/h which just burns glycogen, and makes you super hungry. I think road riding works better for weight loss then mountain biking, which tends to be minutes of power sprints followed by seconds of inactivity, at least around here, you go along 4 mile hill, with 5000' of climb, followed by 10' of downhill with 3" of descent, followed by 4 mile hill again, never been able to figure out how that works

As for the beer, forget it, it's basically water and carbs, and a pitcher of beer takes about 3 hours of riding to counteract.....

europa

Don't believe him. Beer is wonderful stuff and full of ... stuff that makes you feel wonderful I'd like to advise moderation but that's just ... being moderate

Okay, if you are determined to lose weight and to keep it off, you need to think about things like beer. If however, you want to enjoy your life and have this weird idea that you will enjoy it more with a healthy body, you need to consider things like whether your 'pitcher of beer' is a standard pitcher or the 'large economy size'.

A bit of moderation and thought in everything - eats, exercise and nutrition - will serve you well. However, be warned that a fat bloke can exercise hard and become a 'fit, fat bloke'. You need to decide where your priorities lie with the weight loss. Whatever you decide though, every ride on your bike is doing you good. Learn to enjoy every ride - it's not 'training', it's not 'fitness', it's not 'weight loss', it's good old, common or garden type, FUN! Enjoy it and you'll do it again. Do it lots, you'll be a happy kittycat, a fit kittycat and if you're a good kittycat, a lean kittycat

Richard
resident heretic

donoman

It's hard for me to ride longer than 2 hours a day... I'm a grad student and my professor literally owns my butt! I also don't plan to ride excessively - maybe 2-3 rides a week. I've started running with my officemates at the track (we'll see how long that lasts).

By the way, the part about burning fat at lower exertion is TOTALLY MINDBOGGLING! All these years I wondered why I slimmed up so much by cycling in college but running never really got me anything but faster! I tend to exercise anaerobically (as I've read here) or in the top 80% of my max HR. I had no idea that I should take it easy for the slow burn. I always just thought "no pain no gain". So I usually crush myself (which is probably why I people always say "Hey, you're fast FOR YOUR SIZE" pffffffft).

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I don't want to give up my beer. It's an important part of my life, quite literally. I want to have a healthier body, healthier heart, healthy friendships, and a happy boss (not sure about that one).

"be warned that a fat bloke can exercise hard and become a 'fit, fat bloke'." - I've never thought of this but it's true! Actually, I think that's what I am already --- relatively fit & fat. I always thought it was because I was an athlete from 13-21yrs of age that pushed myself but have always had problems shedding fat. I have no problems smoking a lot of skinny people in sprints or stairclimbs or down a soccerfield... This is really shocking to realize ... THANK YOU!

superslomo

It's a calories in vs. calories out question: if you can keep on riding without hitting the wall, then you are going to lose more weight by not eating on the bike. If, however, it makes the difference between going for an hour, or going for four hours, then eating a few hundred calories is worth the investment.

If it's a long long weekend ride, I bring gel along. Otherwise I bring either just water, or water and some kind of electrolyte drink (especially in warm weather.)

Wogster

Beer runs from about 95 to 170+ calories for 12oz see https://www.beer100.com/beercalories.htm for calories from American beers, it's just as bad for the imports, although Molson in Canada has a light beer that is as low as 82 calories, but other then that the story for imports is just as bad...... Essentially the higher the alcohol content the higher the calories and carbs.... Which means, you can probably have one beer once in a while, but should skip the 1/2 Gallon pitcher.....

I gave up on beer about 15 years ago, but even when I did drink beer, I would buy a two-four in the spring and still have a couple left in the fall, so was never big on it.....

Stujoe

It is all about calories in and calories out. There are other tricks as in a body typically does better on a routine of eating at the same times and having smaller meals and light (healthy) snacks in between. Larger breakfast, smaller dinner, etc.

But, at the end of the day, you really need to burn more calories than you take in to lose weight. The good thing about exercise is that it not only gives you more calories burned right away do to the exercise but there is an effect for a while after you stop. And, the more you do over time, the more your metabolism speeds up.

If I am on the bike for an hour ride, I won't take anything along except water. This weekend, I plan on some longer rides on Sat and Sun. I will take a piece of fruit or two along because that is going to be too long in between eating for my normal schedule so I need to bring my snacks. In other words, I try not to let what I am doing on the bike change my routine unless I was to hit a wall and not be able to push through it.

Another tip...drink more water. Before, after and especially on the bike. Just being dehydrated can seriously affect your stamina. I find when I keep hydrated, I don't hit very many walls in the first place...that goes for any exercise.

geo8rge

Bicycles are very efficient, you do not need to burn many calories to get forward motion. I find that if I ride and keep knocking back sugary drinks and snacks I probably am consuming more that burning. If you want to lose weight you basically have to reduce calorie intake.

A bike with an internally geared hub would require more calories to ride, but probably fewer hours to maintain. A fixed gear bike may also have some advantages. A folding bike might help you as it is easier to transport to where you want to ride, so you will ride more hours. If you live near (3mi) where you shop work, a bike that is easy to operate, like Strida, might really change your lifestyle.

Finally if you you can surmount the mechanical problems of bike ownership (or live near a good bike shop), consider a rowbike.com. It cannot replace a general purpose bike.

donoman

I have a folding bike. It sucks for real riding. I don't know why, but I use too much arm strength when riding. A lot of my climbing just comes from my arms. And my folding bike, even thought it's the best one Dahon makes, flexes like a noodle when I'm out of the saddle. It is purely my commuter and it's awesome at that. I have it loaded up with about 15 lbs of gear - rack, panniers & lights. I can take it anywhere, even inside my dentist's office. It's great for that.

Tom Stormcrowe

Noodle flex is just the nature of the folding beast.

charles vail

You are the only one who can decide why beer is so important to you. Is it the taste or the buzz, hmmmm?
Of course your liver might have a different opinion about the alcohol but either way, you know its not healthy to drink in excess (more than about 12 oz. of beer a day).
You can be a fit fatty......sort of but carrying extra fat puts a strain on your heart causing it to thicken over time and thats not healthy. I am quite fast on a bike on level ground being a sprinter but give me any steep hills and my heart can't keep up with my legs. I'd rather lose 40 pounds and be a better climber. Its difficult going on long rides to burn fat so just ride as much as you can and start lifting weights to increase muscle mass. This will help burn fat when at rest and shouldn't take more than 1 hour per day x 3 days a week. This is my plan for fat loss and I intend to ride my normal 9 mile per day heart/lung workout in addition to longer rides when time permits. I don't ride to lose weight but because I like it so much. Others are correct in saying that short intense rides burn glycogen not fat and do little to grow muscle unless you progressivly add intensity or duration. Any increase in calories used will help,unless you reward yourself for it, with excess food.

Tom Stormcrowe

Bear in mind though, Charles, that there is a 2 hour window where intake after intense exercise is used exclusively to restock muscle and liver glycogen and not stored to fat. In addition, if you are expending 500 kcals an hour and intaking 250 kcals/ hr under exercise, then you are running at a deficit, and the intake supports blood glucose and glycogen under these circumstances.

It's important to remember though that this only applies when you are riding far or fast enough that you risk glucose/glycogen depletion. Under high intensity or long duration exercise, crashing the blood sugars leads you to the "bonk" and this is a beast you don't want to awaken. Some intake is perfectly appropriate during high intensity or endurance events, and don't forget those electrolytes either!

By the way, beer, in MODERATION is a good recovery drink, but the key is moderation and you are better off using a nonalcoholic version as alcohol is also a diuretic and slows re hydration recovery.

lil brown bat

That's obviously not entirely accurate, since in a 2-hour window you can easily ingest many more calories than you've expended in exercise, if you make the right/wrong choices. But there is a post-exercise window where you can definitely maximize nutrition benefits. Edmund Burke's "Optimal Muscle Recovery" is a good source re: post-exercise intake.

charles vail

I suppose it is fairly critical if one is diabetic to monitor blood glucose levels especially after excercise to avoid bottoming out. In my case I don't believe I suffer from that......yet and am taking steps to lose the fat before its too late. I try to eat regularly and spread it out during the day and avoid high carb meals. I do find that after an intense 1 hour ride at 80% effort, I get really hungry for the carbs but if I ride at a more modest pace for longer and eat a small amount on the ride I don't suffer in the same way. I only use electrolytes in hot weather and rides over 2 hours. I just eat a little bit of salty stuff and a bannana plus water. I try to consume protein and a large amount of veggies after a ride when possible but will admit to ice cream or a hamburger minus the fries and pop. Trying to eat to live not live to eat!

Tom Stormcrowe

OK, I was being general, since all your body under any circumstance can digest is 250 - 300kcals per hour without storing the balance to fat. Under exercise that figure actually reduces to being able to ABSORB 200-250 kcals/hr due to blood being drawn away from the stomach due to the body's muscle oxygenation needs and any additional food just sits there in the stomach and makes you feel bloated. I can go into a full medical text dissertation if you'd prefer, but kept it general so everyones eyes wouldn't glaze over.

markw

If you dig around on the Hammer Nutrition site, there's some very good literature on what you should be eating on the bike, and how it effects your fitness. As someone pointed out, the problem with longer rides is that you can burn 800+ calories an hour, but your body can only absorb 250-300 in the same amount of time, so you end up running at a deficit. The key for on bike nutrition is stuff that the body doesn't have to process. Maltodextrin is a huge ingredient in most products that the top guys use. Anyway, here are the sites.

Here's hammer's site.

https://www.hammernutrition.com/

And here's ultra cycling.

https://www.ultracycling.com/

Very informative stuff wether you're doing a club ride, century, double, or preparing to whup butt at an ultra event.

charles vail

This is all good info but leads me to a question that some may find offensive. Why if our bodies don't do so well with prolonged endurance excercise do we insist on doing it? I mean, its kind of looney really. If our bodies can't refuel fast enough, then there is a limit to our efforts and monkeying with our bodies does nothing but risk injury or overtraining. I understand athletics are not healthy for the body and most of us are not competitors but instead, are cycling for our health and fitness. These super endurance events are not healthy but instead break down the body causing potential strain and overuse. Cycling is one of the only excercises that can be sustained for longer than the bodies ability to keep up. I don't plan on ever riding past that point. For me four to five hours of any excercise is plenty. Eight hours would be pushing it and I don't care how good of shape someone is in doing these ultra events is not good for you if you do them all the time.

Tom Stormcrowe

Because some of us enjoy pushing our absolute limits, Charles. I'm sure you enjoy riding your way and we enjoy ours. Each of us does what we do simply because we enjoy it, and Clyde's is a place where our individual styles, nutritional needs and goals aren't limited to a one size fits all kind of place.

charles vail

I understand.........just wondering though if some clydes, or anyone for that matter, won't think they have to push themselves to these levels to get the benefits they want for weight loss or improved fitness. Just thinking the emphasis on these ultra events and even doing a 200 mile day is not within the abilities of most cyclists and wonder how healthy it is in the long run. Chronic knee problems and other repetitive overuse injuries seem to plague many eventually. I remember seeing some of the RAAM competitors collapsing from utter exhaustion, hallucinating and riding when they weren't capable of being safe, not to mention needing rubber bands to hold their heads upright because their neck muscles were completely wiped out. Its really quite odd behavior boardering on insanity. I heard of some never being quite the same for months after the attempt. I guess I am trying to distinguish between excercise for health and excercise for athletic acheivment. I suppose that is different for every individual and am interested in making the distinction between these activities for reflection.

Tom Stormcrowe

You are absolutely right,there are RAAM competitors that have collapsed, like Juri Robic, last year from Pulmonary Edema causing Pneumonic symptoms, for one example.

The neck issue even has a name, Schermer's Neck, after the RAAMer that first suffered it.

As far as I know, I'm the only Clyde on the forum interested in Ultraendurance riding though. Half Century, and Century is pretty much an achievable standard for anyone with reasonable fitness and not a lot of training. A Double Century, that's a big difference.

The difference between 50 and 100 miles though is really nothing but saddle time, nutritional planning and electrolyte replacement and hydration along the ride.

Tom Stormcrowe

Oh yes, one more point,

As far as my personal opinion is concerned, in the long run, it doesn't matter whether you do ultraendurance, or recreational riding for fun, you're still a cyclist and equally deserving of the same respect.

charles vail

I appreciate that..........my current self imposed mileage limits are in the 50-60 mile per day range. I know I can do 100 a day but frankly, I have other committments. The mileage I ride, allows me to attend to other things on the weekends and still get a few hours in the saddle. It keeps me coming back instead of burning out.
Riding 100-200 miles on a bicycle.....to most people thats a road trip in the family auto. !!!
I enjoy getting around on my bike doing weekly errands, visiting friends, church and for excercise with the weekend 50 mile ride a couple times a month in good weather. Been wanting to do the STP ride for the last two years but the preparation rides and arrangement of transportation and accomadations, don't seem to work out. One thing about group rides that I don't like is, most of the time you spend riding by yourself, which I do all the time, so they are a little bit of a letdown for me. Still waiting for that one event that is truly enjoyable, where I meet new folks and have a good time, rather than just grind out the miles, solo.