fujitive

Hi,
I have read in a few posts people recommend carrying mace on tour. So far I have done all my riding in Australia and never had any problems...what is the reason for taking it? Is it to repell dogs, people, insurance salesmen?

I will be setting off for a 10 week Europe Tour 12 weeks from now and wonder if it is something I should pack. Has anyone needed or used it?. In what circumstance?

Thanks.

Gordon P

In Europe? No. In America? Yes

Gojohnnygo.

I have used bear spray(Just a hyped version of pepper spray) on black bears trying to steal my food bags.3 sprays from 20' and they ran off like whimpering little babies.

Guest

I carry mace.

A woman alone, no matter where she is, should be prepared to protect herself. I've been in scary situations in every part of the world I've been to, including Australia.

When I finish my tour, I simply find another woman travelling alone and give her the mace and tell her to use it until she's ready to go home, then pass it to another woman travelling alone.

If I ever decided to travel in the USA, I'd take mace. I'd probably carry other weapons too.

Michel Gagnon

I don't carry anything like that. Beware, BTW, about carrying something like that when you cross country borders. Some of these U.S. products are illegal to bring in Canada... yet I'm aware that bear spray exists and is sold here.

BTW, as you will be flying (I assume) from Australia to Europe, there are restrictions on pressurised containers while flying.

Regards,

Chris L

Pardon my extreme ignorance here, but can someone please explain to me what exactly mace is? Is it something you carry in a can and spray? Is it something big and heavy used to clobber people? I have absolutely no idea.

Gojohnnygo.

Its kind of like pepper spray. It makes your eyes water and your skin burn.

Chris L

Oh, that explains why nobody around here uses it then. We've already got something that does that. It's called "the sun".

Guest

Yeah, they always say you can't take pressurized cans on board, but you can take spray cans and perfume and stuff like that.

I'll take my chances. I always pack it in my clothes, and if they check my luggage and they don't like it, they can have it. If they don't, then I'm keeping it on me.

A woman travelling alone is never 100% safe. I would say she's about 70% safe.

fujitive

I cant say I have ever felt threatened either travelling or at home so I have never considered mace/pepper spray...I guess being 6'3 and 100kg's helps me there.

I carry a swiss army knife which I use for normal purposes which can come in handy if threatened...maybe mace could be handy warding off keen dogs?

Gojohnnygo.

Not like sunburn.Its like grinding up some fresh red peppers and then rub it into your face and eyes.You will get picture.(Please don't try this at home)

Brains

Just be aware, if you are caught with Mace in the UK, you will get free accomodation courtesty of Her Majesty's Prison Service.

If you use Mace in the UK the free accomodation will be longer, you also stand a good chance of being sued by anyone you get with the mace, and the Courts will support them.

Customs & Excise also take a very dim view of people smuggling wepons of any type into this country. You want to be labled as a terrorist ?

pletcgm

I will be carrying pepper spary this weekend on my tour, but I will also have my .357 magnum with me too. I will keep it unloaded while riding, but will load it when I camp out at night. I never know what might show up at my tent during the middle of the night!

Gordon P

I am sure glad I don't have to worry about stuff like that.

Guest

Hmmmmm... good thing I'm not really interested in travelling to England anytime soon!

Will her majesty get between me and the criminal following me so that I don't have to get robbed, *****, murdered, or ever just harrassed?

I always just take my chances. I've been to stricter countries and not had problems with the mace.

Knock on wood... <knock knock!>

fujitive

Probably have a point. A female carrying mace can say it is for protection and get away with it but a big bloke probalby wont....it will just look like a weapon.

So, is there generally much to worry about in Europe apart from the normal levels of street crime. Is it particularly bad anywhere?

pletcgm

It's not so much that I worry about people showing up, it's more about animals, big animals, like black bears. Where I camp out, I am so far from civilization and back in the woods, the probability of a human showing up is very remote.

Brains

Hey, this is Europe, although we may have a similar population in terms of numbers as the USA, we don't have anything close to the theft/****/murder rate.

I think we can safely say that in most of Europe most of the time you are safe from all of the above without any form of protection.

The Police in this country keep 60 million people in check without being armed, and we still have less than 100 gun killings a year.

Gordon P

Bears eh! I had a tame cub living beside my cabin for a while last summer, they’re fun to watch. Black bears rarely attack humans and I guess if you are wilderness camping you are bear aware, but a gun is not necessary.

Grizzlies are another matter.

slotibartfast

Interesting post and opinions. It's a sad, dangerous world we live in and a lone female is more vulnerable than anyone. It's sick that everyone has to keep their head on a swivel to watch out for compromising situations. What ever happened to civility? Why do the criminals have more rights than the decent law-abiding citizens? We need more cops, jails, and citizens willing to get involved when they see someone being victimized. Sorry about the rant, but this thread struck a nerve with me. I need to go ride and blow off some steam....

Guest

Regardless of whether Europe has less crime along those lines than what I described, there hasn't been one trip to Europe or any country yet where I haven't been chased, followed, or harrassed by men. And I've travelled A LOT in the last 10 years.

Mace is my friend, and it will always be. I'll risk the fine.

Gordon P

You are right Koffee, I have met many women who have been attacked, rob, harassed, groped and sexually assaulted while traveling. Most men are just not aware of how difficult it is for women while traveling. I read somewhere that 1 in 3 women will be assaulted during their lifetime and for a woman who travels, this would be a lot higher. When I first answered this question I assumed fujitive was male and for a male traveling in Europe, I would still say no to mace, but for a women traveling alone yes.

arijane

I got mugged outside of my friendly small town pub last week. The friendly small town bouncer who an hour or so earlier had been showing me his nifty key chain mace called the cops and then watched from the safety of the bar while my friend and i struggled to defend ourselves. It was a sobering experience for a couple of reasons. First, I have never been the victim of a this type of crime here in my home town or anywhere, not even as a solo female traveller in Guatemala where EVERYONE gets mugged (tourist tax they call it), and second, I have been worried about taking off on my own for a cross country trip for the reasons discussed in this thread. I get mugged and I haven't even left yet! BTW, does anyone have a specific brand or type of mace that they favor? Words of encouragement?

Guest

If you go to Walgreen's, you can get a small bottle of the mace that attaches to your keychain. You can also get a long necklace (plain) from any cheap jewelry store and slip it onto your necklace and then hide the necklace around your neck and go about your business. If someone comes up to you from behind, you'll be able to quickly defend yourself.

Sad when you can't even depend on the people who are supposed to be defending you...

Koffee

Merriwether

I can truly say that's hilarious.

I couldn't have produced a post that combined the usual smugness of Europeans combined with the usual ignorance about America if I'd written it myself.

You do know that many countries in Europe-- including Britain-- have much higher rates of crime than the U.S.? And yes, that includes violent crimes, like assault, ****, and robbery.

Oh, wait, that's right, you were only writing cliches. You don't actually know what you're talking about.

Here's your own left-wing Guardian to educate you:


Alan Travis, home affairs editor
Friday February 23, 2001
The Guardian

England and Wales have one of the worst crime records in the industrialised
world - even worse than America - according to the findings of an official
survey published yesterday which compares the experience of victims across
17 countries.
The study, coordinated by the Dutch ministry of justice, shows England and
Wales at the top of the world league with Australia as the countries where
you are most likely to become a victim of crime. These countries face an
annual rate of 58 crimes for every 100 inhabitants.

The findings, based on interviews with 35,000 people about their experience
of crime across the 17 countries, were carried out last year. They are a
blow to Labour's record and underline the challenge facing Tony Blair when
he marks the launch of Labour's 10-year anti-crime plan next Monday by
becoming the first serving prime minister to visit a prison.

The 2000 International Crime Victimisation survey shows that the falls in
crime recorded since the mid-1990s in England and Wales are part of a
general pattern of falling crime across the industrialised world but,
unlike America, crime levels in England and Wales are still higher than
they were at the end of the 1980s. When the survey was last carried out in
1996, England and Wales also topped the league table with 61 offences per
100 inhabitants.

The survey does show, however, that Britain has the best services when it
comes to looking after the victims of crime, but it also shows we have a
tougher approach to punishing criminals. Asked what should be done with a
burglar convicted of stealing a colour television for a second time, more
than 50% in England and Wales said he or she should be sent to prison for
two years. Only 7% in Spain and 12% in France thought he or she should be
jailed at all.

People were asked whether they had been victims of a range of 11 different
offences in the previous 12 months, including violent and sexual assault,
car crime, burglary and consumer fraud.

The survey also shows that Scotland, with 43 offences per 100 inhabitants,
ranks joint fifth alongside America in the international crime league
behind England, Australia, the Netherlands and Sweden. Northern Ireland has
the second best crime record of the countries surveyed, with 24 offences
per 100 inhabitants - the same rate as Switzerland and only just above
Japan where the biggest crime problem is bicycle thefts. The detailed
findings of the ICVS survey showthat England and Wales are top of the
international league for car thefts with 2.6% of all car owners suffering
the loss of their vehicle in the previous 12 months. In other sorts of car
crime, England was second only to Poland.

Australia and then England and Wales had the highest burglary rates and
rates for violent crimes such as robbery, assault and sexual assault .

One area in which England and Wales did not feature at the top of the
league was in consumer fraud, which is far more of a problem in Poland,
Denmark and the US. Some 5% of Polish people surveyed said they had had to
pay a bribe to a police officer or government official in the previous 12
months.

The survey says the results show the industrialised world splitting into
three separate groups as far as crime is concerned.

High crime countries where more than 24% of the population are victims of
crime each year are Australia, England and Wales, the Netherlands and
Sweden.

Canada, Scotland, Denmark, Poland, Belgium, France and America are medium
crime countries where between 20% and 24% are crime victims each year.

Low crime countries which have crime victimisation rates below 20% are
Finland, Spain, Switzerland, Portugal, Japan and Northern Ireland