I brought this up in that other thread but figured I'd restate it for those planning on buying Sugino 75 cranks and opting for a different bottom bracket than the standard S75 track BB w/ unsealed bearings. Sugino 75's take an ISO taper bottom bracket, not JIS like everyone has assumed when they suggested running it with a Shimano UN5X/7X BB.

But don't take my word for it:

Thanks Andre. It's nice to have this cleared up, all the arguments about it made my brain hurt.

i wonder why he suggests a 111mm spindle length for Campy, whereas the Sugino 75 spindle is 109mm?

I asked him about 111mm Campy BB specifically in my original question. Chainline is perfect on my bike. In theory it could knock it off by 1mm, though.

Campy don't make a 109 BB do they?

The smallest BB I can see on Campy's website is 111.

okay, so, i seem to recall something written maybe by the folks over at Phil Wood. i can't be the only person to remember this - can anybody help de-fuzzy my memory? basically, they said that for all Sugino's claims that it's ISO and other people's claims that it's JIS, it's actually somewhere in between the two - of course it takes some instruments to measure the very slight differences. and then they went on to say some other stuff, but dammit if i can't remember where it was written - here? their website? - or what exactly it said.

Similar Experience:

Sugino RD's would not fit on a Dura-Ace FC series BB.

Well this complicates things.

John at Businesscycles lists Sugino cranks as ISO, but other sellers list Sugino cranks as JIS.

I had assumed that Sugino made two different cranks.

By the way, John at Businesscycles recommends matching the crank bearing spindle manufacturer to the crank arm manufacturer.

So much for my plan of getting a Sugino 75 crank and putting it on the same Phil spindle I use for my Stronglight crank.

i'll back you up on this

is anything sugino JIS?

Does this mean the Sugino 75's will fit on my current Phil 108mm JIS spindle?

I guess I could write to Phil.

I just now wrote to Phil.

Let's see what we learn.

yes it will. i run a 111mm spindle, just adjust it to get the right chainline.

I don't see much of a complication... You have the equipment manufacturer AND a respected name in the field both saying it's ISO. Forget the other sellers.

anyone know if the DA 7610 and Hatta R9400 bottom brackets are JIS?

edit: i thought i remembered reading that suntour superbe pro stuff was ISO, but i could be wrong.

i've got a dura ace spindle, which is jis.

i've got a sugino 109 track spindle, which would be iso.

i've got a set of superbe pros and 75s. the cranks sit further out on the da spindle whereas sit further in and not creating an off chainline. the situation is the same for both. so in my experience, 75s and superbe pros are iso rather than jis.

i like the idea that people are emailing phil wood about this rather than listening to the information from sugino. seriously.

Ruh roh. So, uh, what would happen if one was to use 75s with a shimano UNxx BB?

yeah, c'mon smart people. cause i'm running superbe pro on shimano UN as well.

Here's the old thread -->https://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-261290.html . It seems that people are saying if you ran an ISO crank with a JIS BB, you should stick with the JIS and everything should be cool.

So, like, I have this, uh, friend who got a bike put together by a shop with 75s and a shimano BB following an accident by way of a sweet sweet insurance payout. This guy, let's call him "Dee McGee", has ridden this bike only on rollers for a couple hundred miles since getting it. Should I tell him to get an ISO crank, or is the damage done and he should keep using JIS shizz in the future?

I guess the worst case scenario of running a JIS BB on an ISO crank is deforming the crankarm permanently. This could result in a less than optimal fit and would also mean you can't switch BB's afterwards.

I switched from UN54 to Campy after a wek of riding, with no deformation issues. Best bet would to have a very well informed bike mechanic to look at it.

well there is none as deform the crank... the crank will fit but not so deep or deeper as it suppouse to be ... I have run campy track crancks with a shimano dura ace for years and no problems but u have to get the right lenght, thecnically u can get away mixing iso and jis, the question is if it is right to do it. Yes Sugino uses iso BBs, weird isnt? Campagnolo makes 111mm bbs because thats what it fits to their cranks, thats all.

Campy 102 mms fits ok with miche cranks just in case. Dunno how the sugino 109 bb it will fit with them, have to find it out. between the 109 and the campy 111 are only 1 mm per side so no big deal unless the campy bb is not symetrical, thing that I really dont know.

have fun

you'd have to put a SERIOUS amount of force into putting an iso crank on a jis bottom bracket to really mess it up. it just won't seat that far onto the spindle. of course, going back the other way may cause a problem because you've effectively stretched out the spindle to put it in a dirty kind of way. but if it's deformed slightly to a jis taper, it'll be fine if you keep using a jis taper bb.

this is another part of why i think octalink, isis and mega exo/hollowtech II/gigapipe are much better solutions to this kind of problem.

i've known a bunch of people to use that set up for years with no problems. if you pull the cranks and see/feel a ridge in the square that slides onto the spindle or the square of the taper if you will, you've squeezed a bit of metal out of the crank arms.

Somebody should start a poll for Sugino 75 crank users. Options are what type of BB they use: Shimano (JIS), Campy (ISO), Phil (JIS), Phil (ISO), Sugino (???)