CF4L

How long to you have to see a bike in one place for it to be "ok" to take it? for example, you see an older road bike with some nice components on it that would make a great conversion and it is on a rack with little more than dental floss holding it on. The bike has clearly not moved for quite some time. How long do all of you law abiding folk wait till you say "I need this more than they do" and maybe do something about it? just curious what all of you would do.

juvi-kyle

Wait for someone to steal it. Then tell them that it is your bike. Works everytime.

dolface

there have been a bunch of discussions about this, and i THINK the consensus usually comes down to something like; if it's been there for a really long time, go leave a note on the bike, and make sure it stays there for at least a week.

if it's still there after a week, grab the bike, but leave a note on the rack, and make sure it stays there for a while, again, at least a week.

if you're gonna convert the bike, save all the bits and make sure you know how to put them back on in case the owner shows up.

the homealien

Pretty much what dolface said. I know the temptation, but try to be nice and play it safe. Also be extra cautious in winter, because you know people will "abandon" a bike for the snowy months but still want it back come spring.

kurremkarm

It is never OK.

Chompy

I have an old bike that could use some work. I'll go lock it up with some dental floss. Go ahead and steal it. Just remember to leave a note with your number. About how long do you think you'll take to do the work/conversion? I'll give you a call. Thanks

GetOutOfNJ

like 8 people have dibs on the blue bike at the library, if thats the one

filtersweep

Ever heard of Karma?

I know someone who was given a bike without wheels by a friend. The bike had a dubious past, and again, the bike had no wheels, raising further suspicion. The guy bought some old wheels for it and rode it a few years until it was stolen from him out of his storage locker at his apt. And this wasn't even a nice bike!

Dogbait

If you don't yet know the difference in your things and what belongs to someone else, you need to have a long talk with yourself. I get the feeling that you do know the difference or else you wouldn't ask.
Waiting until it is "safe" or keeping all the parts in case the owner shows up is just a lame attempt to cover your butt.... if it really was ok to take it, these things would not be necessary.
If you take someone's bike, you will have to justify that act to yourself every time you ride it.

Dogbait

teiaperigosa

it's not 'theft'....'s actually 'rescuing' abandoned street junk

EricDJ

Talk to the property owner about it if its been there a while. Let them cut it off and sell it to you.

chipcom 

+1 whatever happened to honesty and 'thou shall not steal'? Even if the thing is abandoned, it's still not yours and taking it is stealing. Being 'a little dishonest' is like being ' a little pregnant' - you either are or your are not.

harlond

I think I like this answer best. Except in extraordinary circumstances, and this isn't one, I would generally agree with those that say theft is not OK. But I would also note that you cannot steal property that the owner has abandoned. In most states, the law generally is that abandoned property belongs to the first person who takes possession of the property. The hard question here is whether this bike is abandoned. Factors suggesting not are that it is parked in a bike-specific parking rack and that it is locked, however poorly, to the rack. The length of time it has been left there is the main, if not the only, factor suggesting abandonment. So I think I'd ask the property owner, or someone else likely to know, how long the bike has been there. If the time is long enough to make plain that the bike has been abandoned, notwithstanding the fact that it is locked up--and there's no set answer here on how long that is, it depends on the circumstances--then I think you can take it (or buy it from the property owner on the assumption that he has taken possession of it by virtue of owning the land and rack) without it being theft. At least you have an argument, both legally and morally defensible. My two cents.

CF4L

well i actually agree with most of you. i know i shouldnt, i guess i just needed to be reminded. I will try the note thing.. see if anything happens from that. its just "frustrating" when there are 5 to 10 bikes around campus that I put alleycat flyers on in the end of october, and the flyers are still sitting on the bike... meaning they have not moved an inch.

so yea, ill try a specific "contact me" note and see if anything happens.

teadoggg

I'm with you. There could be some reason why it's there. I walked by a sexy cream colored bike daily for almost a year that I wanted to grab & convert. Then, one day, I saw the dude unlock it, put it in his car. I don't know why it was there for that long... Maybe he lost the key & found it, perhaps he was in the hospital, maybe he was wasted and forgot where he locked it until he drove by it one day.

It would be like taking a car parked on the street for a while - the value is more, but it's still theft.

The LT

what about taking a fork off of a locked up bike that has already been scavenged for parts and the only thing left on the bike is the fork?

chip thunder

I was faced with a similar dilemma just a month or so ago. Someone locked their mtb outside of my work and seemingly abandoned it. It sat through all manner of inclement weather and was beginning to rust to hell. I had no desire for the bike, but I was inclined to cut it off and go donate it to the bike church. It just killed me to watch a perfectly servicable bike just disintegrate in front of my eyes (not to mention occupy my lockup spot at work) when some less fortunate soul went rideless. I decided that if it sat through one more snow/sleet or stayed past New Year's that I would liberate it, especially since it was right in front of my work and if the person came for it I could easily let them know where it went. I was sooooo sure that it was abandoned. Last saturday it disappeared. I like to think that the owner came for it rather than someone else stealing it.

I would be very hesitant now to consider a bike abandoned, regardless of condition.

tink20seven

I was standing in line last night buying some groceries, and a woman pulled in behind me and started loading her items on the conveyer belt. I was hardly paying attention when, very casually mind you, she put a pack of hotdogs and some cheese in her faux luis vutton. she zipped it up and finished loading her things.

After I paid and moved to another aisle, I loaded my bailey, and watched the scene unfold. She tried to scam on some cool whip by leaving it in her cart and then when questioned, said she didn't want it. After this, she paid and exited, and as I was unlocking my ride, I saw her get into a Lincoln Navigator SUV and drive off.

She was so calm and collected about the whole thing. As if she does this everyday. No different than pulling out her credit card at the register, she put the hotdogs away in her bag. Like it was all part of the transaction. Like they were her change.

Look, I'm certainly no ethecist, and I don't really feel that I'm in a position to cast stones, but all I'm saying is she hardly looked like she needed to steal hotdogs.

/thread jack

progre-ss

Although in my more youthful days, I did free a bike that was chained to a rack for several months. It's wheels were bent and most everything was rusty on it. It became my commuter bike for a couple years. These days, I don't think I would do cut a lock. But if I find one in the trash, it's mine. If it was abandoned on the side of the road, it's questionable unless it's been there for a while.

In similar fashion to tink20seven's post above, I was at a Sports Authority and was perusing the Puma driving shoes. I noticed there was a shoe box half sitting in a trash basket and wondered why it was there. I kinda opened the box to find someone's dirty old Nike's in place of the new Pumas. Theft? Maybe or the guy could've bought the shoes and wore them right then and there and trashed his old pair.

shants

karma is total bull****. it seriously pisses me off people believe in this nonsense without thinking about how utterly and obviously it begs the ****ing question. there is absolutely no evidence that could possibily verify it for someone who doesn't accept it. once you believe in it, though, everything fits, because people only pay attention to circumstances that support their belief. it's like, i steal a bike today, and, in three years, my bike gets stolen and some hippy piece of **** goes, "oh dude, totally karma getting you back for that time when you stole that bike." of course, this means absolutely nothing, because anything "bad" that happens to you can be "explained" by karma if you have ever done anything in the past. it makes it all the better if the two things are similar in nature. ultimately, all karma can say, which demystifies the entire claim and makes it totally common sense, is that if you do something bad (or something good), chances are that somewhere down the line that something good (or something bad) will happen. hell, i could just as validly (which isn't valid at all) say that stealing the bike made me win the lottery and get that sweet promotion a couple of years later.
seriously, **** this karma bull****. people need to learn how to think. superstition makes me hate humanity.

as far as taking bikes goes, i think the vast majority of us, if we are being honest, can tell if a bike has been genuinely abandoned or not. there are certainly extraordinary circumstances, like some of the possibilities given, that could account for a bike being somewhere for upwards of 3-6 months without genuinely being abandoned, but they are, well, extraordinary. if you are ethically comfortable with accepting some minimal risk that you might be wrong, then you are fine. all ethical judgment, especially of any consequentialist sort, has to accept a risk that you miscalculated. just observe the situation over a course of time -- to the best of your ability -- and, if it is still there, then take it. if the bike has been left outside exposed to the elements for a long time, there is a pretty good chance that it's been jacked. if it starts to have parts hijacked and falls over in the bike rack that it's been locked to for 5 months, you're probably fine. on college campuses, if a bike is looking pretty haggard and is locked outside of a dorm right after classes get out for summer, you're good. hell, in such a case, you want to get it before the university cuts and it sells it. they feel fine taking it, you should as well. basically, as far as i see it, if someone is apathetic enough to leave their bike somewhere for that long a period of time, they have abandoned it.

teadoggg

i'm going to steal your ugly-ass, peice of **** makino. jesus, that thing looks like ****. it looks like it's been locked up for months.

hyperRevue

Maybe you just witnessed someone else steal it?

People who say that theft is never OK are ignoring the circumstances of the situation.
Each case is unique and I agree completely with the "can't steal abandoned property" guy.
Has anyone here ever taken a piece of furniture or something from a curbside pile on moving day?
Is that stealing?
No, it's garbage.
That said, I would try the note method or talking to the property owner.

shants

i never leave a bike locked up for more than 4 hours, tops.

wearyourtruth

we've taken bikes before on campus with this rule (which isn't as nicely clear cut anywhere but on campus). at the end of every semester after most people have gone home the campus cops go around and put a tag on each bike saying that they have one week to remove the bike or they are going to come take it. if no one gets the bike then the cops remove it and go throw it in a big pile they have behind their station and then sell them off every now and then. if the bike has been there for a few months, it's the end of the semester, and it looks like the cops are gonna get the bike, we consider it fair game. unfortunately a lot of the bikes aren't even worth getting the chain off.

i like the note idea, that's in essence what the cops are doing.

as for karma, karma is loosing your bike because you left the damn thing locked up outside for months on end instead of giving it a good home :-D

chipcom 

Horsepucky.