patentcad

I figure RW would know this stuff immediately, he's the Cdale expert here:

• I tried the old A-B bottom bracket flex test. The Super Six was noticeably stiffer than my Six13. No shock there, but I was surprised as how much more laterally rigid the bike seemed to be. From all reports it rides as well or even better.

• Did they change the Six13 for 2008 besides the finish?

I'll probably do a new road bike after the 2009 models are announced. Kind of waiting for that Dura Ace wifi shifter shoe to drop. Very curious about that actually.

Don't worry, there's plenty of other velo crap to buy without getting a new road bike. My Six13 is two years old now (the frame is only about a year old, warranty replacement) and it looks brand new. That natural finish Six13 is a very handsome road bike too. Nicer looking than the newer Cdales in my opinion. Loving both the Six13 and the sister TT bike, the Six13 slice (same finish). Beautiful looking bikes that feel, ride and race great. I'm as happy with these Cdales as I was with my Ibis Ti when that was new. Cdale does an impressive job.

Speedee

I think it has the larger CAAD9 tubbing.

patentcad

Looked that way to me. The 2009 Six13 also felt laterally stiffer than my 2008 frame, but it was a much smaller frame size, so it's hard to tell.

CrimsonKarter21

The 2008 Six13 has a taller headtube for geezers like yourself.

patentcad

When I get you in a paceline, I will grind you into monkeydust and hock you like a loogie.

M_S

Cannondale shill.

Maybe you should just buy more BD stuff.

Are you interested in the electronic DA for its own sake or because it will lower the prices of the mechanical stuff?

patentcad

I am only interested in grinding BF Freds into monkey dust. Pcad will be racing on a real team this year. I have to get my domestique chops together, and part of that is mercilessly droping the hamer. In fact the re-animator on the Tour de Fred today (which was astonishingly Fredless) was Pcad. Sadly when the final real move went off with less than a mile to go, I was the closest to the winning wheel, but a few drops of snot short of grabbing it. Oh well. They guy yelling at me to pull him up there never came around me either.

Attack! Attack! Attack!



You're lucky you're in Portland you soggy putz.

ILUVUK

Ya know, that pic of Vino with the sunglasses stuck into the helmet vents. What the hell is up with that? It's sunny, no? Put the damn glasses on!!! They would make him look more intimidating as well...that, and the injections.

patentcad

I can assure you that when you're that deep into the Lactic Acid Haze/House of Pain, it's a stretch to remember what friggin planet you're on, let alone adust your friggin shades.

ILUVUK

I suppose you're right. I've left mine in the vents at some odd moments as well.

Philcycle

Permission to use for sig? Best thing I've read all week!

patentcad

You can join the ever expanding army of BF members who have poached Pcad snippets for their sigs. For now it's free, but I am in discussions with my attorney botto to create a royalty fee schedule.

roadwarrior

Second question first...

The new 2008 Six/13 frame is significantly different. If you look at the front of yours you'll see the two metal badges on the head tube. They hide two holes, through which the old frame tubing was interlocked...the carbon tube was soft and expanded to interlock with the aluminum so that they were a single interlocked tube...since you have a clear coated Six/13 you'll know what I mean.
The new one's not constructed that way, using a less expensive process (not interlocked...if you look at the front of the new Six/13, note the difference in the head tube...there's just a C logo there). Less expensive process part of how they can offer this frame with Tiagra for about $1,350.

First question...I have not seen a "number" (and I doubt they'd publish a testing number like that)...but I do recall that the BB30/Hollogram setup is 25% larger than Dura Ace (due to the way the BB is designed, the spindle is that much larger and as a result stiffer)and all the Super Sixes come with the BB30. My System Six is stunningly stiffer in the bottom that the Six/13 I had that had the standard BB setup...and I added Hollogram and like it a lot better than the DA I had. Crankarms are stiffer and lighter. Depending, if you go Super Six, you can get the lighter Hollogram with the ceramic bearings (they have the bright magenta center where the crankarm attaches).

Also, if you look at the Super's right chain stay, it's larger than the left giving a bit more stiffness on the drive side. That may be part of what you noticed in addition to larger tubing in that part of the bike versus yours.

My opinion? The System Six feels stiffer than the Super. Evidence of that was the number of smaller Liquigas guys that opted for Synpase SL's before the Super was available. Some of them felt that the System Six was too much frame, too stiff. Many jumped on the Super and loved it from what I was told. Based on the Liquigas and Barloworld results from last season, they all seemed to be happy campers.

I like the System Six better, just my opinion.

If you are evaluating the NEW Six/13 versus the Super Six, there's no comparison. Super Six hands down, end of discussion.

carpediemracing 

Someone who knows about such things recommended the System Six over the Super Six when I asked him which frame is better for a sprinter type. He said that the System Six is the stiffest frame Cannondale makes.

In fact, he spent a year half heartedly trying to convince me to get off of my flexy Giant (the mushy frame gets mention in my race report here: https://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...de-bethel.html) and onto a spare/extra frame he had. Since it would have been free for me, he had no vested interest in my switching frames. He's even a teammate that does tons of work for me in races so he actually has a vested interest in me doing better. I eventually bought the SystemSix (not from him) and wish I listened to him last year.

I've also taken the bike out for a few hour ride with no ill effect. As comfy as the Giant, just more responsive. Seemed much lighter. Of course I bought a scale to measure the exact "weight loss" between the Giant and the Cannondale.

To my horror, when I weighed the two bikes (essentially equipped the same - wheels, group, etc, except the SystemSix has SRM), they weighed about the same. So the perceived "pound or two" that I lost off the bike (based only on riding impressions) was actually measured in tenths. The difference was in the efficiency of the frame. Arg. I've been sucking while racing a sub 16 pound bike.

SystemSix owner,
cdr

Speedee

I like the System better (getting one this month). The Super is a completely different bike.

PhilThee

Even stiffer than the CAAD9?

Philcycle

Just tell me where to send the check - I'll make sure it's in monkeybucks!

botto 

PM me for my paypal address.

carpediemracing 

I can't remember if CAAD9 entered the question. I asked him about Six13, System6, Super6, and he said something like "the stiffest frame we have is the System6". Not sure if that was out of my choices or if that was a generality. I believe it was a generality.

cdr

duuuuuude

If it matters much, the 2008 Six 13s have a new seatpost size - 31.6. In fact, I think most of the seat tubes on all their bikes have gone 31.6 after being 27.2 for so long (System Six and Super Six are definitley 31.6.

The head tube of the 08 System Six is also a little taller for comfort (as explained by a Cannondale rep at a race).

I'm an 06 Six 13 owner and 07 System Six owner. Love them both, but the System Six is definitely a lot stiffer and just beefy. It feels like it weighs 1-2 lbs heavier, but it's around the same weight (both come in around 15-16 with 1500 gram wheels). I think I get faked out by the FAT tubes of the System Six.

I test rode a Super Six for kicks and it was a nice riding bike, but really felt like it was no different from riding my System Six, despite completely different rear triangles.

I'm a Cannondale fan, as I also have their touring bike. They fit me right and simply haven't gone wrong with my body and riding style yet...

roadwarrior

They also did away with the beefy carbon stem. They were only offering length differences, not rise. Now they come with a standard stem...

I had one of the carbon stems and put my Deda Newton back on after getting a "fit kit" spacer and cap set from Cannondale.

patentcad

That's pretty cool. The Six13 is the best racing bike I've ever ridden, and the fact that they seem to have improved it substantially is very cool. Let's hope they continue their outstanding R&D going forward. When I buy my 2009 Super Duper Six I want RW here telling me how it pisses on the older model Cdale bikes.