Easier gearing on custom 80's bike with Shimano 600EX components
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Easier gearing on custom 80's bike with Shimano 600EX components
I have posted about my bicycle here several times over the years and have always gotten great advice. It's my mom's Nobilette (probably) from circa 1984-1985. It's gone on many adventures with me since I first posted about it around 2010, including on a sailboat and camping with some homemade bags, both pictured below for fun. I am moving soon to a hilly area and will be living at the top of a 20+% grade hill. The lowest gear I have right now is a 39 in the front and a 28 in the back which is just not happening on that hill for me personally, especially loaded up with groceries (I don't have a car, this is my daily commuter). I am no bike mechanic, but I can follow ParkTool youtube videos probably I think I have a plan and just wanted to run it by everyone.
The wheels are 700c Mavic Open Pros with a 6 speed Sunrace 14-28T freewheel. The rear derailleur is a Shimano 600EX 6207 short cage and the shifters are Suntour friction shifters. The crankset is also Shimano 600EX 6207 that was a 52/42 but I switched the inner ring to a 39T, which is the smallest I think I can get with this BCD (which I believe is 130mm).
I found the Shimano 600EX 6207-GS long cage version of my current rear derailleur on eBay. I'm thinking about that and the 6 speed 14-34 IRD Cyclone freewheel which I found for $50 here. So for ~$140 total shipped, I would get ~21% easier lowest gearing per Sheldon Brown's calculator without sacrificing my highest gear. This original document says this rear derailleur can manage a 34T cog size but only with 'SFR or PR fork ends' and google was not helpful with what that means. It also says a max 34T takeup, which should be fine for the 52/39 and 14-34 if I've calculated that correctly. So does this seem like the best way to get lower gearing? Or maybe the 13-32 is safer because of whatever it says about the fork ends? I'm moving while wrapping up my degree so I don't have all of the money in the world for this project but I do want to do something with long-term utility rather than a crummy fix. I also have some sentimental attachment to the current groupset, but I'm not 100% wedded to it. If I do this, any suggestions for a good chain?
Thank you in advance for any advice!
.
The wheels are 700c Mavic Open Pros with a 6 speed Sunrace 14-28T freewheel. The rear derailleur is a Shimano 600EX 6207 short cage and the shifters are Suntour friction shifters. The crankset is also Shimano 600EX 6207 that was a 52/42 but I switched the inner ring to a 39T, which is the smallest I think I can get with this BCD (which I believe is 130mm).
I found the Shimano 600EX 6207-GS long cage version of my current rear derailleur on eBay. I'm thinking about that and the 6 speed 14-34 IRD Cyclone freewheel which I found for $50 here. So for ~$140 total shipped, I would get ~21% easier lowest gearing per Sheldon Brown's calculator without sacrificing my highest gear. This original document says this rear derailleur can manage a 34T cog size but only with 'SFR or PR fork ends' and google was not helpful with what that means. It also says a max 34T takeup, which should be fine for the 52/39 and 14-34 if I've calculated that correctly. So does this seem like the best way to get lower gearing? Or maybe the 13-32 is safer because of whatever it says about the fork ends? I'm moving while wrapping up my degree so I don't have all of the money in the world for this project but I do want to do something with long-term utility rather than a crummy fix. I also have some sentimental attachment to the current groupset, but I'm not 100% wedded to it. If I do this, any suggestions for a good chain?
Thank you in advance for any advice!
.
Last edited by xanthochrome; 07-26-23 at 09:52 AM.
Likes For xanthochrome:
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Berwyn PA
Posts: 6,476
Bikes: I hate bikes!
Liked 851 Times
in
271 Posts
I would swap the craksent & bottom bracket to something like this:
https://www.rivbike.com/products/cra...40807881867375
There are many other options. as far cranks go. Thers will chime in with suggestions I am sure. I have found that lower wider gearing works better for the type of riding I enjoy. The racing gearing of yesterday is reall y cool to look at and functional for some but I find it to be limiting.
https://www.rivbike.com/products/cra...40807881867375
There are many other options. as far cranks go. Thers will chime in with suggestions I am sure. I have found that lower wider gearing works better for the type of riding I enjoy. The racing gearing of yesterday is reall y cool to look at and functional for some but I find it to be limiting.
#3
I have posted about my bicycle here several times over the years and have always gotten great advice. It's my mom's Nobilette (probably) from circa 1984-1985. It's gone on many adventures with me since I first posted about it around 2010, including on a sailboat and camping with some homemade bags, both pictured below for fun. I am moving soon to a hilly area and will be living at the top of a 20+% grade hill. The lowest gear I have right now is a 39 in the front and a 28 in the back which is just not happening on that hill for me personally, especially loaded up with groceries (I don't have a car, this is my daily commuter). I am no bike mechanic, but I can follow ParkTool youtube videos probably I think I have a plan and just wanted to run it by everyone.
The wheels are 700c Mavic Open Pros with a 6 speed Sunrace 14-28T freewheel. The rear derailleur is a Shimano 600EX 6207 short cage and the shifters are Suntour friction shifters. The crankset is also Shimano 600EX 6207 that was a 52/42 but I switched the inner ring to a 39T, which is the smallest I think I can get with this BCD (which I believe is 130mm).
I found the Shimano 600EX 6207-GS long cage version of my current rear derailleur on eBay. I'm thinking about that and the 6 speed 14-34 IRD Cyclone freewheel which I found for $50 here. So for ~$140 total shipped, I would get ~21% easier lowest gearing per Sheldon Brown's calculator without sacrificing my highest gear. This original document says this rear derailleur can manage a 34T cog size but only with 'SFR or PR fork ends' and google was not helpful with what that means. It also says a max 34T takeup, which should be fine for the 52/39 and 14-34 if I've calculated that correctly. So does this seem like the best way to get lower gearing? Or maybe the 13-32 is safer because of whatever it says about the fork ends? I'm moving while wrapping up my degree so I don't have all of the money in the world for this project but I do want to do something with long-term utility rather than a crummy fix. I also have some sentimental attachment to the current groupset, but I'm not 100% wedded to it. If I do this, any suggestions for a good chain?
Thank you in advance for any advice!
.
The wheels are 700c Mavic Open Pros with a 6 speed Sunrace 14-28T freewheel. The rear derailleur is a Shimano 600EX 6207 short cage and the shifters are Suntour friction shifters. The crankset is also Shimano 600EX 6207 that was a 52/42 but I switched the inner ring to a 39T, which is the smallest I think I can get with this BCD (which I believe is 130mm).
I found the Shimano 600EX 6207-GS long cage version of my current rear derailleur on eBay. I'm thinking about that and the 6 speed 14-34 IRD Cyclone freewheel which I found for $50 here. So for ~$140 total shipped, I would get ~21% easier lowest gearing per Sheldon Brown's calculator without sacrificing my highest gear. This original document says this rear derailleur can manage a 34T cog size but only with 'SFR or PR fork ends' and google was not helpful with what that means. It also says a max 34T takeup, which should be fine for the 52/39 and 14-34 if I've calculated that correctly. So does this seem like the best way to get lower gearing? Or maybe the 13-32 is safer because of whatever it says about the fork ends? I'm moving while wrapping up my degree so I don't have all of the money in the world for this project but I do want to do something with long-term utility rather than a crummy fix. I also have some sentimental attachment to the current groupset, but I'm not 100% wedded to it. If I do this, any suggestions for a good chain?
Thank you in advance for any advice!
.
Likes For KCT1986:
#4
señor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,839
Bikes: '70s - '80s Campagnolo
Liked 6,975 Times
in
3,441 Posts
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bcd.html
I like your idea of using a long cage derailleur and expanded rear cluster before doing anything else.
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I would swap the craksent & bottom bracket to something like this:
https://www.rivbike.com/products/cra...40807881867375
There are many other options. as far cranks go. Thers will chime in with suggestions I am sure. I have found that lower wider gearing works better for the type of riding I enjoy. The racing gearing of yesterday is reall y cool to look at and functional for some but I find it to be limiting.
https://www.rivbike.com/products/cra...40807881867375
There are many other options. as far cranks go. Thers will chime in with suggestions I am sure. I have found that lower wider gearing works better for the type of riding I enjoy. The racing gearing of yesterday is reall y cool to look at and functional for some but I find it to be limiting.
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Sheldon says the smallest is 38t.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bcd.html
I like your idea of using a long cage derailleur and expanded rear cluster before doing anything else.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bcd.html
I like your idea of using a long cage derailleur and expanded rear cluster before doing anything else.
#7
Your plan should work fine. SRAM chains work well for me,others say the same about KMC or Shimano.
__________________
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
#8
Polymultiplié
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 11,230
Bikes: Yes, please.
Liked 5,246 Times
in
1,932 Posts
Sorry for the dumb question, but would that mean that something like this Origin 38t 130 BCD chain ring 'compatible with 8- and 9-speed drivetrain components' should work despite mine being a 6 speed? What about ones that say they're for 'single speed' bicycles like this one from Surly?
I am not familiar with the Surly rings, but a ring designed for single speed chains, which are often 1/8" might not play nice with a 3/32" derailleur chain.
Likes For non-fixie:
#9
Edumacator
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 7,561
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Liked 3,590 Times
in
2,254 Posts
Just my two cents.
The Deore DX is a bomb proof option (and cheaper used) for a long cage derailleur and that proposed freewheel. And it wouldn’t look too out of place.
As far as a compact crank with the current freewheel.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/15564441853...Bk9SR4b4_7qyYg
The Deore DX is a bomb proof option (and cheaper used) for a long cage derailleur and that proposed freewheel. And it wouldn’t look too out of place.
As far as a compact crank with the current freewheel.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/15564441853...Bk9SR4b4_7qyYg
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super, 1971 Raleigh International, 1998 Corratec Ap & Dun, 1991 Peugeot Slimestone
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super, 1971 Raleigh International, 1998 Corratec Ap & Dun, 1991 Peugeot Slimestone
Likes For jdawginsc:
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,949
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Liked 4,321 Times
in
2,381 Posts
If I were living in a hilly area and faced a 20% plus grade like the OP, I'd install a 110/74 bcd triple and be done with it. If buying new, I like the Sugino XD600 with 48/36/26 rings.
https://www.benscycle.com/sugino-xd-...8aAo6bEALw_wcB
If buying used, you could put up a WTB in the C&V for sale forum and see what pops up that you like. Since you're living in the Boston area, you could check out what a local bike co-op has in the way of a used triple crank.
https://www.benscycle.com/sugino-xd-...8aAo6bEALw_wcB
If buying used, you could put up a WTB in the C&V for sale forum and see what pops up that you like. Since you're living in the Boston area, you could check out what a local bike co-op has in the way of a used triple crank.
Likes For bikemig:
Likes For Piff:
#12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
If I were living in a hilly area and faced a 20% plus grade like the OP, I'd install a 110/74 bcd triple and be done with it. If buying new, I like the Sugino XD600 with 48/36/26 rings.
https://www.benscycle.com/sugino-xd-...8aAo6bEALw_wcB
If buying used, you could put up a WTB in the C&V for sale forum and see what pops up that you like. Since you're living in the Boston area, you could check out what a local bike co-op has in the way of a used triple crank.
https://www.benscycle.com/sugino-xd-...8aAo6bEALw_wcB
If buying used, you could put up a WTB in the C&V for sale forum and see what pops up that you like. Since you're living in the Boston area, you could check out what a local bike co-op has in the way of a used triple crank.
Likes For xanthochrome:
#13
Senior Member
Since you're currently using a double crank, your current bottom bracket may or may not be long enough for a triple crank. If the mechanic is not aware of this...and just throws up their hands... Go somewhere else and have them help you get a proper bottom bracket.
Likes For Piff:
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,949
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Liked 4,321 Times
in
2,381 Posts
+ 1, you'll need a new BB but the bike co-op likely has a sealed shimano square taper bottom bracket that will work with a triple.
#15
Edumacator
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 7,561
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Liked 3,590 Times
in
2,254 Posts
But will the 600ex FD handle a triple is the question. I don’t think it has the cage or swing for it but I could be wrong.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super, 1971 Raleigh International, 1998 Corratec Ap & Dun, 1991 Peugeot Slimestone
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super, 1971 Raleigh International, 1998 Corratec Ap & Dun, 1991 Peugeot Slimestone
Likes For jdawginsc:
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,504
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Liked 6,809 Times
in
3,892 Posts
Sorry for the dumb question, but would that mean that something like this Origin 38t 130 BCD chain ring 'compatible with 8- and 9-speed drivetrain components' should work despite mine being a 6 speed? What about ones that say they're for 'single speed' bicycles like this one from Surly?
This is fantastic and a chrome Nobilette no less, wonderful.
I just today facilitated a bike that had been the Mom's bike and is going to a new home where it will be loved and ridden once again.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 2,111
Bikes: Road ready: 1993 Koga Miyata City Liner Touring Hybrid, 1989 Centurion Sport DLX, "I Blame GP" Bridgestone CB-1. Projects: Yea, I got a problem....
Liked 749 Times
in
425 Posts
From my couch, it looks like you need a tripleizer ring. That way you can keep the original crank set. You'd still need the matching long cage rear derailleur. You might get the front derailleur to work, if it has enough total range to shift through 3 rings. If it does, it might not swing out far enough to to reach the outer ring with a triple bottom bracket spindle. Then you need to get your shoe horn out and see if you can squeeze a small granny gear cog with out fouling the chainstay with a compromise as long as "possible"bottom bracket leangth. I wouldn't expect to be able to use all the rear cogs with the granny gear because of the non standard chainline.
Last edited by bark_eater; 07-27-23 at 06:08 AM.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,949
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Liked 4,321 Times
in
2,381 Posts
From my couch, it looks like you need a tripleizer ring. That way you can keep the original crank set. You'd still need the matching long cage rear derailleur. You might get the front derailleur to work, if it has enough total range to shift through 3 rings. If it does, it might not swing out far enough to to reach the outer ring with a triple bottom bracket spindle. Then you need to get your shoe horn out and see if you can squeeze a small granny gear cog with out fouling the chainstay with a compromise as long as "possible"bottom bracket leangth. I wouldn't expect to be able to use all the rear cogs with the granny gear because of the non standard chainline.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,949
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Liked 4,321 Times
in
2,381 Posts
You can also replace the 6 speed freewheel with a larger 7 speed freewheel. Usually that change goes without a hitch since they're both designed for 126 OLD wheels. Sometimes you get a bit of chainrub in which case you will need to add a 1 mm spacer on the freewheel side and you can add one to the non drive side if you want to as well to keep the wheel properly dished. That will give you a 128 OLD rear wheel but it will fit into those drop outs.
Amazon has a 14-34 Sunrace 7 speed freewheel at a reasonable price,
https://www.amazon.com/SunRace-MFM30...a-571345725316
Amazon has a 14-34 Sunrace 7 speed freewheel at a reasonable price,
https://www.amazon.com/SunRace-MFM30...a-571345725316
#20
cowboy, steel horse, etc
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The hot spot.
Posts: 46,013
Bikes: everywhere
Liked 8,537 Times
in
4,548 Posts
Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 07-27-23 at 06:42 AM.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Berwyn PA
Posts: 6,476
Bikes: I hate bikes!
Liked 851 Times
in
271 Posts
[QUOTE=xanthochrome;22964927]Why would you do this rather than changing the rear derailleur and cassette? I'm not opposed, just curious!
For me, I have found having lower gearing overall is more useful. Picking up a lower gear or two by adding a new freewheel is fine if that works for you. I just feel most older bikes are way over-geared relative to riding that most folks (Not everyone, don't get riled up!) actually do.
On all of my bikes, 2 Road & 1 Mountain, the large chainring is 46th. On the road bikes, both are 46/34 with a 10 Speed ,11-34 rear cassette. Everyone's choices are different. Use waht works best is my motto.
For me, I have found having lower gearing overall is more useful. Picking up a lower gear or two by adding a new freewheel is fine if that works for you. I just feel most older bikes are way over-geared relative to riding that most folks (Not everyone, don't get riled up!) actually do.
On all of my bikes, 2 Road & 1 Mountain, the large chainring is 46th. On the road bikes, both are 46/34 with a 10 Speed ,11-34 rear cassette. Everyone's choices are different. Use waht works best is my motto.
Likes For fender1:
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 2,111
Bikes: Road ready: 1993 Koga Miyata City Liner Touring Hybrid, 1989 Centurion Sport DLX, "I Blame GP" Bridgestone CB-1. Projects: Yea, I got a problem....
Liked 749 Times
in
425 Posts
It sounded like part of his criteria was to preserve the general character of the Arabesque group set, and the original crankset is a rather distinctive part of the group set. I'm sure he can get one of those big wheel Altus rear derailleurs cheaper than a used long cage Arabesque one....
Last edited by bark_eater; 07-27-23 at 10:28 AM.
#23
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 19,355
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Liked 13,203 Times
in
6,777 Posts
It sounded like part of his criteria was to preserve the general character of the Arabesque group set, and the original crankset is a rather distinctive part of the group set. I'm sure he can get one of those big wheel Altus rear derailleurs cheaper than a used long cage Arabesque one....
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
Likes For genejockey:
#25
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 19,355
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Liked 13,203 Times
in
6,777 Posts
I have both Arabesque and 6207, and I like 'em both, but there's something about Arabesque that makes you want to keep it all together.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles