Things Have Changed and It's Deadly ... off-topic but life and death
03-17-11, 10:40 AM
#127
Riding like its 1990
I've got some people pledging to Mercy Corps for my Death Valley 100 next week.
Fundraising for emergency relief in Japan
03-17-11, 10:53 AM
#128
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Thread Starter
We are in Tokyo ... in a hotel. Came down in a bus organised by the Australian govt. Will head south in A.M. ... maybe Nagoya. Narita is too busy and we do not have tickets. Just a short message . See you, my friends ... Lorne
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03-17-11, 10:55 AM
#129
Senior Member
Great to hear, Lorne. Stay positive.
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03-17-11, 10:58 AM
#130
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03-17-11, 11:23 AM
#131
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Lorne, thank you for the update. Good luck!
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03-17-11, 11:36 AM
#132
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Good luck Lorne + family!
Chombi
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03-17-11, 11:44 AM
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Answer to prayer for a fellow C&Ver and prayers still go out to all others who are in this crisis, and those workers hoping to solve it. Please consider giving donations to humanitarian relief in Japan. I know there are governments that are working to help the large scale effort but the humanitarian aid is typically what is on the ground helping people with medical, shelter, food and water. The immediate needs. The large scale rebuilding effort will continue but the small details of lives and families ripped apart need care and attention.
If it’s not one thing, it’s another.
I woke this morning in the port city of Sendai, about 60 miles north of the stricken Japanese nuclear reactors at Fukushima Daiichi, to find that the US Embassy in Tokyo was advising all American citizens within a 50 mile radius of the radiation leak to evacuate.
I am not an American citizen, but I absorb radioactivity in the same way Americans do, and though we're seeing reports of fear exceeding the risks of health hazards, I decided to take the embassy’s advice. Ten miles here or there does not make much difference if the wind is blowing in the wrong direction, I thought, and if the Japanese government followed the American lead an awful lot of people from Sendai, a city of about 1 million people, would be blocking the roads. It was time to leave.
I headed west, away from the reactors, but no sooner had I driven past the city limits than it began to snow very, very heavily. Some 15 miles out of town, a policeman flagged me down. Trucks had got stuck in snowdrifts further up the road, he explained, and the road was closed.
I turned around, and found an alternative route along a minor road. As I climbed into the mountains, the snowstorm became a blinding blizzard. Without chains, the baby Honda I have rented was slipping and sliding all over the place.
My car crawled along at 20 m.p.h. and it became clear that my goal of reaching Tokyo by nightfall, 350 miles away by the roundabout route I was taking to steer clear of Fukushima, was completely unrealistic.
Not long after it got dark, the snow was falling so heavily I gave up trying to drive through it. I found a ryokkan, a traditional Japanese inn and sat down cross legged on a tatami mat at a low table to type my article and this blog. Now I am going to test the hot springs this inn is renowned for.
I woke this morning in the port city of Sendai, about 60 miles north of the stricken Japanese nuclear reactors at Fukushima Daiichi, to find that the US Embassy in Tokyo was advising all American citizens within a 50 mile radius of the radiation leak to evacuate.
I am not an American citizen, but I absorb radioactivity in the same way Americans do, and though we're seeing reports of fear exceeding the risks of health hazards, I decided to take the embassy’s advice. Ten miles here or there does not make much difference if the wind is blowing in the wrong direction, I thought, and if the Japanese government followed the American lead an awful lot of people from Sendai, a city of about 1 million people, would be blocking the roads. It was time to leave.
I headed west, away from the reactors, but no sooner had I driven past the city limits than it began to snow very, very heavily. Some 15 miles out of town, a policeman flagged me down. Trucks had got stuck in snowdrifts further up the road, he explained, and the road was closed.
I turned around, and found an alternative route along a minor road. As I climbed into the mountains, the snowstorm became a blinding blizzard. Without chains, the baby Honda I have rented was slipping and sliding all over the place.
My car crawled along at 20 m.p.h. and it became clear that my goal of reaching Tokyo by nightfall, 350 miles away by the roundabout route I was taking to steer clear of Fukushima, was completely unrealistic.
Not long after it got dark, the snow was falling so heavily I gave up trying to drive through it. I found a ryokkan, a traditional Japanese inn and sat down cross legged on a tatami mat at a low table to type my article and this blog. Now I am going to test the hot springs this inn is renowned for.
While our guy and his family appear to be now in a
much better situation, there are still a great many people
in and around the reactors and Sendai who are not.
So let us not allow this to go the way of relief in
New Orleans and Haiti (where they are about to
experience a cholera epidemic of huge numbers
as the weather warms). These people are some
of our closest allies on the planet, and deserve
our continuing support. Enough preaching to the
choir. I am happy for Lorne and his family, and
merely wish to add my wishes to recover well and
quickly from this trauma.
03-17-11, 11:49 AM
#134
I'm not sure how long Lorne will be in Vancouver but maybe we could help him out with a bike. I'm sure between all of us we can get something together for him. I would think with your world turned upside down a simple bike ride could help a great deal.
Anyone know what size bike Lorne rides? Let's get this started.
Mutt
Anyone know what size bike Lorne rides? Let's get this started.
Mutt
03-17-11, 02:02 PM
#138
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I'm not sure how long Lorne will be in Vancouver but maybe we could help him out with a bike. I'm sure between all of us we can get something together for him. I would think with your world turned upside down a simple bike ride could help a great deal.
Anyone know what size bike Lorne rides? Let's get this started.
Anyone know what size bike Lorne rides? Let's get this started.
Lorne, if you see this PM me with any preferred size(s) and I'll do some digging.
03-17-11, 02:05 PM
#139
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If anyone is interested in up-to-the-minute updates on the Situation at the Power Plant, here is a constantly updated page from the IAEA
https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/...iupdate01.html
https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/...iupdate01.html
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03-17-11, 02:12 PM
#140
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I'm not sure how long Lorne will be in Vancouver but maybe we could help him out with a bike. I'm sure between all of us we can get something together for him. I would think with your world turned upside down a simple bike ride could help a great deal.
Anyone know what size bike Lorne rides? Let's get this started.
Mutt
Anyone know what size bike Lorne rides? Let's get this started.
Mutt
Red Cross, Mercy Corps, whatever -- pick one and send money. We can all donate in L58's name, but does it matter? The important thing is that aid organizations get desperately needed funds. We may all give a little more because this particular tragedy affected people we know personally. That's cool, and we all know it, but the aid organizations just need the cash. So let's just give it to them and know for ourselves why.
03-17-11, 02:29 PM
#141
Senior Member
. . . .
Red Cross, Mercy Corps, whatever -- pick one and send money. We can all donate in L58's name, but does it matter? The important thing is that aid organizations get desperately needed funds. We may all give a little more because this particular tragedy affected people we know personally. That's cool, and we all know it, but the aid organizations just need the cash. So let's just give it to them and know for ourselves why.
Red Cross, Mercy Corps, whatever -- pick one and send money. We can all donate in L58's name, but does it matter? The important thing is that aid organizations get desperately needed funds. We may all give a little more because this particular tragedy affected people we know personally. That's cool, and we all know it, but the aid organizations just need the cash. So let's just give it to them and know for ourselves why.
This is where your dollars will help those who are the most desperately affected.
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03-17-11, 02:38 PM
#142
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I think what Eileen is missing is the group/team dynamic...I think more people would have chosen to give that way, and likely at higher amounts.
03-17-11, 02:43 PM
#143
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Many of the previous posts have advocated fleeing, perhaps even just heading North-West by bicycle, as if the only downside to leaving your home was the inconvenience.
The OP made a small comment indicating he was aware of the risks of being outside, but others have been saying that all the risks were smaller when fleeing. This is not always true, witness the radiation 'spikes' that occurred. A shelter-in-place strategy might be better than being caught outside during a spike.
For context, here is a link https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/science/16terror.html?pagewanted=all to a recent NY Times article on dealing with a nuclear bomb or dirty-bomb scenario.
It says casualties are likely to be much worse if folks flee, rather than staying put and barricaded for the first few days. Quoting:
If people in Los Angeles a mile or more from ground zero of an attack took no shelter, Mr. Buddemeier said, there would be 285,000 casualties from fallout in that region.
Taking shelter in a place with minimal protection, like a car, would cut that figure to 125,000 deaths or injuries, he said. A shallow basement would further reduce it to 45,000 casualties. And the core of a big office building or an underground garage would provide the best shelter of all.
Now, if the reactor turns into days/weeks of steadily spewing highly radioactive material like Chernobyl, the situation is different. But if the disasters are substantially contained except for some bursts of material, being outside during those bursts could be much worse.
I won't presume to tell the OP what the best gamble is for his family, but the additional risks are not just all on the staying-put side of the equation.
My best wishes and prayers are with you.
Eric
The OP made a small comment indicating he was aware of the risks of being outside, but others have been saying that all the risks were smaller when fleeing. This is not always true, witness the radiation 'spikes' that occurred. A shelter-in-place strategy might be better than being caught outside during a spike.
For context, here is a link https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/science/16terror.html?pagewanted=all to a recent NY Times article on dealing with a nuclear bomb or dirty-bomb scenario.
It says casualties are likely to be much worse if folks flee, rather than staying put and barricaded for the first few days. Quoting:
If people in Los Angeles a mile or more from ground zero of an attack took no shelter, Mr. Buddemeier said, there would be 285,000 casualties from fallout in that region.
Taking shelter in a place with minimal protection, like a car, would cut that figure to 125,000 deaths or injuries, he said. A shallow basement would further reduce it to 45,000 casualties. And the core of a big office building or an underground garage would provide the best shelter of all.
Now, if the reactor turns into days/weeks of steadily spewing highly radioactive material like Chernobyl, the situation is different. But if the disasters are substantially contained except for some bursts of material, being outside during those bursts could be much worse.
I won't presume to tell the OP what the best gamble is for his family, but the additional risks are not just all on the staying-put side of the equation.
My best wishes and prayers are with you.
Eric
Let me first emphasize that I am not disputing rationale for evacuation in this instance. Nobody knows if the radiation leakage will get stronger or how long it will continue. It's the right thing to do.
But, for nuclear detonations, it is almost always better to shelter in place. Basically, if you're house/building isn't on fire, you need to stay put for up to about 4 days. Anything other than a one story wood frame house without a basement will provide enough shielding to protect you from fallout.
Just an FYI. I've heard Brooks Buddemeier speak a couple times, and he's pretty illuminating.
03-17-11, 04:03 PM
#144
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Lorne and his family are safe now, and that's what mattered with this family we got to know about and I say they did the CORRECT decision in their case evacuating when they did as they will now not have to worry about the radioactivity that could have been just a door or window away from harming them now or in the next few days or weeks.
There's still thousands of Japanese families in the affected areas pretty much at the mercy on what their government will tell them what to do. We should pray for them that they too will make the best, correct decisions for themselves.
Everyone staying in there are just really guarding their property as life in the affected area has stopped altogether...no work no school, no services, no nothing. Your property is not worth it when you might be taking chances with your life anyway and just as bad or worse yet, your family's future health. Property can all be replaced or repaired eventually.
Chombi
There's still thousands of Japanese families in the affected areas pretty much at the mercy on what their government will tell them what to do. We should pray for them that they too will make the best, correct decisions for themselves.
Everyone staying in there are just really guarding their property as life in the affected area has stopped altogether...no work no school, no services, no nothing. Your property is not worth it when you might be taking chances with your life anyway and just as bad or worse yet, your family's future health. Property can all be replaced or repaired eventually.
Chombi
03-17-11, 04:32 PM
#145
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Lorne and his family are safe now, and that's what mattered with this family we got to know about and I say they did the CORRECT decision in their case evacuating when they did as they will now not have to worry about the radioactivity that could have been just a door or window away from harming them now or in the next few days or weeks.
There's still thousands of Japanese families in the affected areas pretty much at the mercy on what their government will tell them what to do. We should pray for them that they too will make the best, correct decisions for themselves.
Everyone staying in there are just really guarding their property as life in the affected area has stopped altogether...no work no school, no services, no nothing. Your property is not worth it when you might be taking chances with your life anyway and just as bad or worse yet, your family's future health. Property can all be replaced or repaired eventually.
Chombi
There's still thousands of Japanese families in the affected areas pretty much at the mercy on what their government will tell them what to do. We should pray for them that they too will make the best, correct decisions for themselves.
Everyone staying in there are just really guarding their property as life in the affected area has stopped altogether...no work no school, no services, no nothing. Your property is not worth it when you might be taking chances with your life anyway and just as bad or worse yet, your family's future health. Property can all be replaced or repaired eventually.
Chombi
This is not a nuclear detonation. I repeat, not.
But, in the event of a nuclear detonation (Improvised Nuclear Device, not Radiological Dispersal Device, aka "Dirty Bomb"), shelter in place is almost certainly going to save your life. Evacuation very possibly may get you killed.
I only make this point because there has been very strong condemnation of evacuation in this thread (moderator threatening to delete dissenting viewpoints?). And, I simply don't want all the viewers of this thread to think that shelter in place is bad. Generally speaking, it's more sensible than evacuation.
One of the unfortunate side effects of Hurricane Katrina is that there's been an overwhelming focus on evacuation. That's great for people who live in hurricane and wildfire-prone areas, but not good public education for those who live in other type of environments.
For example, there is no threat that would likely necessitate a citywide, spontaneous evacuation of Chicago. But, there are a host of threats that should be dealt with by sheltering in place.
Shelter in place gets a bad rap, and I simply don't want this thread to continue that.
And, yes, I am a public safety professional who helps plan for such events.
03-17-11, 04:52 PM
#146
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If you're responding to me, then you didn't really read my comment, and missed my point entirely.
This is not a nuclear detonation. I repeat, not.
But, in the event of a nuclear detonation (Improvised Nuclear Device, not Radiological Dispersal Device, aka "Dirty Bomb"), shelter in place is almost certainly going to save your life. Evacuation very possibly may get you killed.
I only make this point because there has been very strong condemnation of evacuation in this thread (moderator threatening to delete dissenting viewpoints?). And, I simply don't want all the viewers of this thread to think that shelter in place is bad. Generally speaking, it's more sensible than evacuation.
One of the unfortunate side effects of Hurricane Katrina is that there's been an overwhelming focus on evacuation. That's great for people who live in hurricane and wildfire-prone areas, but not good public education for those who live in other type of environments.
For example, there is no threat that would likely necessitate a citywide, spontaneous evacuation of Chicago. But, there are a host of threats that should be dealt with by sheltering in place.
Shelter in place gets a bad rap, and I simply don't want this thread to continue that.
And, yes, I am a public safety professional who helps plan for such events.
This is not a nuclear detonation. I repeat, not.
But, in the event of a nuclear detonation (Improvised Nuclear Device, not Radiological Dispersal Device, aka "Dirty Bomb"), shelter in place is almost certainly going to save your life. Evacuation very possibly may get you killed.
I only make this point because there has been very strong condemnation of evacuation in this thread (moderator threatening to delete dissenting viewpoints?). And, I simply don't want all the viewers of this thread to think that shelter in place is bad. Generally speaking, it's more sensible than evacuation.
One of the unfortunate side effects of Hurricane Katrina is that there's been an overwhelming focus on evacuation. That's great for people who live in hurricane and wildfire-prone areas, but not good public education for those who live in other type of environments.
For example, there is no threat that would likely necessitate a citywide, spontaneous evacuation of Chicago. But, there are a host of threats that should be dealt with by sheltering in place.
Shelter in place gets a bad rap, and I simply don't want this thread to continue that.
And, yes, I am a public safety professional who helps plan for such events.
Chombi
03-17-11, 05:03 PM
#147
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I design acute care hospitals and ambulatory services facilities in California and we deal with radioactive hazards in our buildings everytime + accomodation for emergency services to handle public health emergencies + fire/life safety, so we must have some agreement with lots of things. it's all just a matter of definition and understanding what exactly is causing the immediate danger to the public in this case. Problem with this incident is, there is no real trust at this point on the Japanese government telling the whole story, maybe because of the culture. In that case, personally, I tend to lean towards dealing with things as worst conditions. You only have one chance to avoid fallout, once it's around you or on you your are contaminated and most likely will be very sick very soon. While the measurements out there seems to still be low, get away if you can until they manage and turn around whatever is going on in that power plant!
Chombi
Chombi
Anyway, what I'm referring to is not the strength of the radiation. It's that a nuclear detonation is a "one time" exposure. It goes up into the atmosphere and then settles and floats away. If you stay indoors (possibly up to 4 days, but even 4 hrs. will probably render the area safe enough), you can then evacuate in a controlled manner to a safe place far, far away. In a city like Chicago, hundreds of thousands of lives would be either lost or saved, depending on whether they went outside or went to the interior of their dwelling. The stakes are very high.
This is completely different. Nobody knows how long it will go on, how strong the ongoing release might be, weather conditions, etc. I firmly agree that evacuation is the right thing to do in this scenario. I just don't want BFers to walk away thinking that evacuation is always the right thing to do.
Public education is the most important part of the saving lives in disasters. Government can be slow to embrace that. I just figured that this would an appropriate venue to share some knowledge with others that might not be aware.
Best wishes to everyone in Japan right now. The magnitude of this certainly eclipses Katrina. While it isn't going to surpass the death toll of the 2005 tsunami, the long term ramifications are mind boggling. More importantly, there are a whole lot of people in Japan that need the world's help right now.
Where are the all telethons and fund raisers? Where are all the celebrities that we've seen in past disasters?
03-17-11, 05:26 PM
#149
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There are discussions ongoing in P&R and Foo where the larger situation can be discussed at length. I would rather leave this open so we can get updates about Lorne if available, but if it gets sidetracked I'm going to close it. I just deleted a couple of posts. Just as a hint, I can't imagine a discussion topic more closely related to politics than taxation.
03-17-11, 07:23 PM
#150
Used to be Conspiratemus
There are discussions ongoing in P&R and Foo where the larger situation can be discussed at length. I would rather leave this open so we can get updates about Lorne if available, but if it gets sidetracked I'm going to close it. I just deleted a couple of posts. Just as a hint, I can't imagine a discussion topic more closely related to politics than taxation.
