Newbie friends are faster than me!
10-01-11, 07:17 AM
#76
false, don't be the person that would parent their kid and tell them they can be anything. It's silly. You know damn well what your child is capable of. If they are slow learners you don't tell them they'll be astronauts. Maybe they should shoot for the fireman or police officer job. If they are smart as hell but can't catch a baseball to save their lives then tell them..."son, you will never be an athlete, let's go to barnes & noble and get you some books"
he's 30, frail and slow. his friends are not. If 12mph is his cruising speed I would think it's going to take him some serious work to get faster...especially if he's been riding for over a year. My girlfriend who has been riding for all of 4 months...intermittently (once a week) rides 16-18mph...and can get in our paceline doing 21mph...she's on a Trek Lexa...pretty heavy bike, but she's naturally athletic and competitive.
he's 30, frail and slow. his friends are not. If 12mph is his cruising speed I would think it's going to take him some serious work to get faster...especially if he's been riding for over a year. My girlfriend who has been riding for all of 4 months...intermittently (once a week) rides 16-18mph...and can get in our paceline doing 21mph...she's on a Trek Lexa...pretty heavy bike, but she's naturally athletic and competitive.
10-01-11, 07:25 AM
#77
+1 go for your dreams, you can be anything you want within the limitations your body has given you. void where prohibited. results may very...all that other stuff people won't tell you to your face...blah blah blah
10-01-11, 07:31 AM
#78
Portland Fred
I only ride about 1 ride a week of 20 miles or so. Over the past couple years I've ridden a lot and I've ridden hardly any... it varies. I used to ride to work every day 14 mile roundtrip, but now I work from home.
Another one of my friends thinks that I only try hard on hills because my normal route is extremely hilly. Could it be that I've only developed "hill" muscles? I do admit that I hardly ever try to go fast on flats ... because I never cared about speed.
Another one of my friends thinks that I only try hard on hills because my normal route is extremely hilly. Could it be that I've only developed "hill" muscles? I do admit that I hardly ever try to go fast on flats ... because I never cared about speed.
Riding 20 miles once a week is better than nothing, but you won't get stronger or faster over time. To accomplish that, you need to ride much more. You'd see a significant improvement if you rode 3 times each week on alternating days -- especially if you mixed in some longer distances and different conditions. I think it's likely that you use different muscles on the flats than the hills which won't help your overall speed.
In the end, it boils down to what you like. A lot of riders are gung ho for 4 or 5 years and then drop it. You won't stick with it unless you enjoy it. And if that means being slower than others and riding less, so be it.
10-01-11, 07:37 AM
#79
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To the OP:
I recommend disregarding a large percentage of what people say in here.
Speed is relative. You said you never cared about speed but do now. Going faster on a bike is never going to feel easy. Every time you reach a new milestone, it will be built on the foundation of time spent pushing limits, which most likely will not feel very comfortable.
Not everyone starts at the same level. Some people require more training than others just to get to the same ballpark. It took me three solid years of training to get to the cat 3 level (and I am talking about the lower echelon of that category) and I have watched others (that I know personally) go all the way to cat 1 in less time, even doing well at the NRC level.
At this time, maintaining and improving on that level has me putting in somewhere between 7 and 18 hours every week on the bike, some of those hours are spent doing rather painful intervals. This translates to annual mileage somewhere between 7500 and 12000.
Maybe this all sounds like jargon to you. Maybe you have no interest in racing. That is fair, but once you enter in to the "speed matters" arena of cycling, it becomes relevant. Focus on where you are, and make your goals achievable within that spectrum. Ignore the absolutes that are tossed about around here without much thought given.
To the mass of people who think they are fast and feel that gives them the right to ridicule or insult an honest poster who just wants to improve:
Get lives.
If you are as fast as you think you are, sign up for a race. Report back. And grow some humility please. It comes off as an insult to everyone who has spent years suffering to improve their riding when you fail to recognize that everyone has to start somewhere.
I recommend disregarding a large percentage of what people say in here.
Speed is relative. You said you never cared about speed but do now. Going faster on a bike is never going to feel easy. Every time you reach a new milestone, it will be built on the foundation of time spent pushing limits, which most likely will not feel very comfortable.
Not everyone starts at the same level. Some people require more training than others just to get to the same ballpark. It took me three solid years of training to get to the cat 3 level (and I am talking about the lower echelon of that category) and I have watched others (that I know personally) go all the way to cat 1 in less time, even doing well at the NRC level.
At this time, maintaining and improving on that level has me putting in somewhere between 7 and 18 hours every week on the bike, some of those hours are spent doing rather painful intervals. This translates to annual mileage somewhere between 7500 and 12000.
Maybe this all sounds like jargon to you. Maybe you have no interest in racing. That is fair, but once you enter in to the "speed matters" arena of cycling, it becomes relevant. Focus on where you are, and make your goals achievable within that spectrum. Ignore the absolutes that are tossed about around here without much thought given.
To the mass of people who think they are fast and feel that gives them the right to ridicule or insult an honest poster who just wants to improve:
Get lives.
If you are as fast as you think you are, sign up for a race. Report back. And grow some humility please. It comes off as an insult to everyone who has spent years suffering to improve their riding when you fail to recognize that everyone has to start somewhere.
10-01-11, 07:48 AM
#80
Your speed is totally normal given what you've told us, particularly if you don't do much other physical activity. Most people here ride 100-150 miles/week, and some ride considerably more. A fair number of them do intervals or strength training. Yet the vast majority still suck.
Riding 20 miles once a week is better than nothing, but you won't get stronger or faster over time. To accomplish that, you need to ride much more. You'd see a significant improvement if you rode 3 times each week on alternating days -- especially if you mixed in some longer distances and different conditions. I think it's likely that you use different muscles on the flats than the hills which won't help your overall speed.
In the end, it boils down to what you like. A lot of riders are gung ho for 4 or 5 years and then drop it. You won't stick with it unless you enjoy it. And if that means being slower than others and riding less, so be it.
Riding 20 miles once a week is better than nothing, but you won't get stronger or faster over time. To accomplish that, you need to ride much more. You'd see a significant improvement if you rode 3 times each week on alternating days -- especially if you mixed in some longer distances and different conditions. I think it's likely that you use different muscles on the flats than the hills which won't help your overall speed.
In the end, it boils down to what you like. A lot of riders are gung ho for 4 or 5 years and then drop it. You won't stick with it unless you enjoy it. And if that means being slower than others and riding less, so be it.
10-01-11, 07:54 AM
#81
Senior Member
false, don't be the person that would parent their kid and tell them they can be anything. It's silly. You know damn well what your child is capable of. If they are slow learners you don't tell them they'll be astronauts. Maybe they should shoot for the fireman or police officer job. If they are smart as hell but can't catch a baseball to save their lives then tell them..."son, you will never be an athlete, let's go to barnes & noble and get you some books"
he's 30, frail and slow. his friends are not. If 12mph is his cruising speed I would think it's going to take him some serious work to get faster...especially if he's been riding for over a year. My girlfriend who has been riding for all of 4 months...intermittently (once a week) rides 16-18mph...and can get in our paceline doing 21mph...she's on a Trek Lexa...pretty heavy bike, but she's naturally athletic and competitive.
he's 30, frail and slow. his friends are not. If 12mph is his cruising speed I would think it's going to take him some serious work to get faster...especially if he's been riding for over a year. My girlfriend who has been riding for all of 4 months...intermittently (once a week) rides 16-18mph...and can get in our paceline doing 21mph...she's on a Trek Lexa...pretty heavy bike, but she's naturally athletic and competitive.
For the pro/elites and the very top (state and national -caliber) amateurs , yes, talent is absolutely necessary, if not the single best determinant of your success. You can break your friggin femur, take an entire 2 years off, and then within a year, come back to performance similar to your pre-femur fracture racing if you're young and talented -it's happened to several pros.
But for the amateurs,it's ALL training. If I were to believe you and just look at my youth where I was the smallest, weakest, scrawniest kid in gym class and ALWAYS picked last in every sport, I never would have even bothered to try them. I knew that I'd never even have a prayer of being even a collegiate athlete in anything, but I enjoyed training hard, and it took until late high school that I finally got enough experience and training to become even a decent runner and general athlete.
I can now win my age division in local running races (I have a running background but have been cycling a lot more as of late) quite often, and typically put down run splits in the top 2% of my AG, and in the top 1% of overall finishers. (I also likely train harder than 95% of folks in the race at peak - I ran, not biked, up to 100 miles per week.) I finish similarly high in pure TTs and bike legs of triathlons, where I'm usually in the top 4% of the posted times. There was absolutely NO clue in my youth that I'd ever be halfway decent at these things, and yes, compared to someone with true talent, I frankly suck. But a lot of training can overcome most deficits in the amateur ranks, and for sure, can definitely get even the worst athlete to at least 'Middle of pack.'
10-01-11, 08:07 AM
#82
Disagree with you big time here. For amateurs, it's ALL about training. Genetics = nearly squat at the amateur level, as we're so far from our racing potential that we can almost always have significant gains. Yes, it's a LOT easier for those that are gifted, but hard work will pay off with huge racewinning results at the amateur level if you have the necesssary commitment and years of training.
For the pro/elites and the very top (state and national -caliber) amateurs , yes, talent is absolutely necessary, if not the single best determinant of your success. You can break your friggin femur, take an entire 2 years off, and then within a year, come back to performance similar to your pre-femur fracture racing if you're young and talented -it's happened to several pros.
But for the amateurs,it's ALL training. If I were to believe you and just look at my youth where I was the smallest, weakest, scrawniest kid in gym class and ALWAYS picked last in every sport, I never would have even bothered to try them. I knew that I'd never even have a prayer of being even a collegiate athlete in anything, but I enjoyed training hard, and it took until late high school that I finally got enough experience and training to become even a decent runner and general athlete.
I can now win my age division in local running races (I have a running background but have been cycling a lot more as of late) quite often, and typically put down run splits in the top 2% of my AG, and in the top 1% of overall finishers. (I also likely train harder than 95% of folks in the race at peak - I ran, not biked, up to 100 miles per week.) I finish similarly high in pure TTs and bike legs of triathlons, where I'm usually in the top 4% of the posted times. There was absolutely NO clue in my youth that I'd ever be halfway decent at these things, and yes, compared to someone with true talent, I frankly suck. But a lot of training can overcome most deficits in the amateur ranks, and for sure, can definitely get even the worst athlete to at least 'Middle of pack.'
For the pro/elites and the very top (state and national -caliber) amateurs , yes, talent is absolutely necessary, if not the single best determinant of your success. You can break your friggin femur, take an entire 2 years off, and then within a year, come back to performance similar to your pre-femur fracture racing if you're young and talented -it's happened to several pros.
But for the amateurs,it's ALL training. If I were to believe you and just look at my youth where I was the smallest, weakest, scrawniest kid in gym class and ALWAYS picked last in every sport, I never would have even bothered to try them. I knew that I'd never even have a prayer of being even a collegiate athlete in anything, but I enjoyed training hard, and it took until late high school that I finally got enough experience and training to become even a decent runner and general athlete.
I can now win my age division in local running races (I have a running background but have been cycling a lot more as of late) quite often, and typically put down run splits in the top 2% of my AG, and in the top 1% of overall finishers. (I also likely train harder than 95% of folks in the race at peak - I ran, not biked, up to 100 miles per week.) I finish similarly high in pure TTs and bike legs of triathlons, where I'm usually in the top 4% of the posted times. There was absolutely NO clue in my youth that I'd ever be halfway decent at these things, and yes, compared to someone with true talent, I frankly suck. But a lot of training can overcome most deficits in the amateur ranks, and for sure, can definitely get even the worst athlete to at least 'Middle of pack.'
10-01-11, 08:49 AM
#87
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Training will get you a long ways. The genetics thing separates competitors after everyone has trained a lot.
One day a week isn't nearly enough. OP, hit your bike 3-4 times a week and come back from rides sweaty and breathing hard and you will see improvement. You are doing the cycling equivalent of a gentle stroll right now.
One day a week isn't nearly enough. OP, hit your bike 3-4 times a week and come back from rides sweaty and breathing hard and you will see improvement. You are doing the cycling equivalent of a gentle stroll right now.
10-01-11, 09:00 AM
#88
Senior Member
Two things come to mind here - your GF is a competitive cyclist, or you're not averaging correctly (including stops.)
I say this because although I'm far from fast, I'm fast enough (as a young male) that only racing competitive cyclist females can stay with me on a ride if I put down the hammer, and even then, they're usually very good ones and not just some run-of-the mill female cyclist.
I did a 2 hr ride solo last week and a moderate HR range for me, but definitely not a relaxed very easy pace. With all lights, stops, included, on a very flat course, I averaged 17.5 mph. That meant that I was routinely hitting 21+ on the flats, and 17ish on the minimal inclines otherwise, but with only 8 stoplights thrown in there and no breaks, the avg speed pulled down to 17.5. I live in Norcal where there are a lot of cyclists out, and I passed probably 19/20 cyclists I came across.
My avg speed was pulled from a Garmin. Hit start and stop at the finish, clock keeps running in between.
Granted, this was far from a hard effort for me, but it's definitely not a leisurely pace by any means to hold a true 17mph avg. It's one thing to hold 17mph for about 10 minutes, then drop down to 14-15 for 10, and then do short bursts like that, but your average with stoplights will be closer to 15.
I say this because although I'm far from fast, I'm fast enough (as a young male) that only racing competitive cyclist females can stay with me on a ride if I put down the hammer, and even then, they're usually very good ones and not just some run-of-the mill female cyclist.
I did a 2 hr ride solo last week and a moderate HR range for me, but definitely not a relaxed very easy pace. With all lights, stops, included, on a very flat course, I averaged 17.5 mph. That meant that I was routinely hitting 21+ on the flats, and 17ish on the minimal inclines otherwise, but with only 8 stoplights thrown in there and no breaks, the avg speed pulled down to 17.5. I live in Norcal where there are a lot of cyclists out, and I passed probably 19/20 cyclists I came across.
My avg speed was pulled from a Garmin. Hit start and stop at the finish, clock keeps running in between.
Granted, this was far from a hard effort for me, but it's definitely not a leisurely pace by any means to hold a true 17mph avg. It's one thing to hold 17mph for about 10 minutes, then drop down to 14-15 for 10, and then do short bursts like that, but your average with stoplights will be closer to 15.
10-01-11, 11:10 AM
#89
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To the OP:
I recommend disregarding a large percentage of what people say in here.
Speed is relative. You said you never cared about speed but do now. Going faster on a bike is never going to feel easy. Every time you reach a new milestone, it will be built on the foundation of time spent pushing limits, which most likely will not feel very comfortable.
Not everyone starts at the same level. Some people require more training than others just to get to the same ballpark. It took me three solid years of training to get to the cat 3 level (and I am talking about the lower echelon of that category) and I have watched others (that I know personally) go all the way to cat 1 in less time, even doing well at the NRC level.
At this time, maintaining and improving on that level has me putting in somewhere between 7 and 18 hours every week on the bike, some of those hours are spent doing rather painful intervals. This translates to annual mileage somewhere between 7500 and 12000.
Maybe this all sounds like jargon to you. Maybe you have no interest in racing. That is fair, but once you enter in to the "speed matters" arena of cycling, it becomes relevant. Focus on where you are, and make your goals achievable within that spectrum. Ignore the absolutes that are tossed about around here without much thought given.
To the mass of people who think they are fast and feel that gives them the right to ridicule or insult an honest poster who just wants to improve:
Get lives.
If you are as fast as you think you are, sign up for a race. Report back. And grow some humility please. It comes off as an insult to everyone who has spent years suffering to improve their riding when you fail to recognize that everyone has to start somewhere.
I recommend disregarding a large percentage of what people say in here.
Speed is relative. You said you never cared about speed but do now. Going faster on a bike is never going to feel easy. Every time you reach a new milestone, it will be built on the foundation of time spent pushing limits, which most likely will not feel very comfortable.
Not everyone starts at the same level. Some people require more training than others just to get to the same ballpark. It took me three solid years of training to get to the cat 3 level (and I am talking about the lower echelon of that category) and I have watched others (that I know personally) go all the way to cat 1 in less time, even doing well at the NRC level.
At this time, maintaining and improving on that level has me putting in somewhere between 7 and 18 hours every week on the bike, some of those hours are spent doing rather painful intervals. This translates to annual mileage somewhere between 7500 and 12000.
Maybe this all sounds like jargon to you. Maybe you have no interest in racing. That is fair, but once you enter in to the "speed matters" arena of cycling, it becomes relevant. Focus on where you are, and make your goals achievable within that spectrum. Ignore the absolutes that are tossed about around here without much thought given.
To the mass of people who think they are fast and feel that gives them the right to ridicule or insult an honest poster who just wants to improve:
Get lives.
If you are as fast as you think you are, sign up for a race. Report back. And grow some humility please. It comes off as an insult to everyone who has spent years suffering to improve their riding when you fail to recognize that everyone has to start somewhere.
. I guess I need to ride more and ride harder and get my legs familiar with the pain . I don't feel insulted by the other posters hehehe. I would laugh at myself also. I just never realized HOW incredibly slow I am.
10-01-11, 11:11 AM
#90
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@ Randplaty - You're not as bad as you think relative to your buds if you're beating them on the climbs. Yes, there's a difference between power/weight (better for climbing) vs power/aeroness (better for flats, big guys do better here), but at the new cyclist level, the differences aren't that pronounced unless you're on the far extremes of the weight curves. It actually might be your bike with your 32 tires that make you slower on the flats - despite what folks say, I notice a significant speed difference between fatter tires like 32s vs 23s. In most of the roadie rides I do, which can be pretty fast, the flats don't count for squat - everyone pacelines those at a brisk pace, and the separation occurs only on the climbs at which my power output literally doubles as we try and drop everyone else. If you can rule on the climbs, you're better than you think relative to the guys you're riding with.
ANd as an aside, don't knock chess. I too thought it was a weak, passive game, until I tried playing it seriously at competition level for several years. Not only was it some of the most fun and exciting times I've ever had (I know, weird, but true), but it was a friggin' bloodthirsty game. Cyclists are *****cats compared to competitive chess players, who make it their single goal to exploit each and every miniscule weakness you have to squeeze out a win. Add to the fact that luck only plays a very small role, and you're dealing with a bunch of guys who are trying to kill each other as elegantly and assassinlike as possible. There is nothing friendly or soft about it - it's bloodthirsty. (Which is a big reason that people speculate that female participation in the sport drops off from about 50% in the years up to junior high school, to <1% after that no matter what country or socioeconomic situation. Draw what conclusion you may from that interesting statistic, but it bears out, even in countries like Russia in the 70-80s where chess was a required part of curriculum for years.)
ANd as an aside, don't knock chess. I too thought it was a weak, passive game, until I tried playing it seriously at competition level for several years. Not only was it some of the most fun and exciting times I've ever had (I know, weird, but true), but it was a friggin' bloodthirsty game. Cyclists are *****cats compared to competitive chess players, who make it their single goal to exploit each and every miniscule weakness you have to squeeze out a win. Add to the fact that luck only plays a very small role, and you're dealing with a bunch of guys who are trying to kill each other as elegantly and assassinlike as possible. There is nothing friendly or soft about it - it's bloodthirsty. (Which is a big reason that people speculate that female participation in the sport drops off from about 50% in the years up to junior high school, to <1% after that no matter what country or socioeconomic situation. Draw what conclusion you may from that interesting statistic, but it bears out, even in countries like Russia in the 70-80s where chess was a required part of curriculum for years.)
Flats don't count for squat eh? hahah maybe I should just take them on hilly rides instead of mostly flat rides
. Anyway thanks for the encouragement. I appreciate it!
10-01-11, 11:29 AM
#91
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
I think I suck because I can't climb. Sustain 20-21 mph on flat ground? Sure. Turn that uphill and I tell whoever's nearby, "I'll catch up by Starbucks." 
10-01-11, 11:34 AM
#92
Scarlet Knight
your strava numbers do not support these claims. These are typical BF exaggerations.
10-01-11, 11:35 AM
#93
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If the OP is better at climbing than his friends, he should take them on a route through Torrey Pines and back through Rancho Santa Fe. There are lots of tough rollers where he could drop his "fast" friends.
10-01-11, 11:37 AM
#94
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I live in a city. I have to stop at lots of lights. I'm talking about moving speeds, and I'm not uncluding undesired/mandatory stops.
When someone's average reads 18mph over 40 miles, there's a pretty damn good chance that including the 3-5 stop lights, they maintained 19/20+ while they were moving.
Stop ****ing trying to discredit me. It's obnoxious.
Someone with math skills could look at my Strava rides and tell me what speed I would have carried had it not been for stop lights.
10-01-11, 11:52 AM
#95
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If the OP keeps doing the same thing every week, no improvement will happen. Up the miles and intenseness and you will see an improvement.
10-01-11, 11:56 AM
#96
Scarlet Knight
Actually they do.
I live in a city. I have to stop at lots of lights. I'm talking about moving speeds, and I'm not uncluding undesired/mandatory stops.
When someone's average reads 18mph over 40 miles, there's a pretty damn good chance that including the 3-5 stop lights, they maintained 19/20+ while they were moving.
Stop ****ing trying to discredit me. It's obnoxious.
Someone with math skills could look at my Strava rides and tell me what speed I would have carried had it not been for stop lights.
I live in a city. I have to stop at lots of lights. I'm talking about moving speeds, and I'm not uncluding undesired/mandatory stops.
When someone's average reads 18mph over 40 miles, there's a pretty damn good chance that including the 3-5 stop lights, they maintained 19/20+ while they were moving.
Stop ****ing trying to discredit me. It's obnoxious.
Someone with math skills could look at my Strava rides and tell me what speed I would have carried had it not been for stop lights.
10-01-11, 12:15 PM
#99
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10-01-11, 12:18 PM
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