Why is ultralight touring so unpopular?
11-30-15, 02:03 PM
#751
Senior Member
I figure the main issue with the really light tents is that you will have to use more common sense of the surface you put it on, and just be more careful overall given that the materials are going to be thinner and more fragile than other tents. For me, this isn't an issue, I take care of my things, but I wouldnt lend a nice UL tent to my family members, who can be kinda clueless about being careful.
Nuns comment about being older or in my case, having a bit of a dodgey knee sometimes, trying to be more careful of load is always going to have benefits. And even if you dont travel as light as these guys, having the right gearing for a given terrain is always going to easier on your legs and knees, you just arent going to travel as far with the same amount of energy output--and thats ok too.
11-30-15, 02:23 PM
#752
Bye Bye
No, it does not. It's made of silnylon though. I can't find their waterproof ratings but silnylon generally has a max hydrostatic head of 1500mm whereas PU coated stuff can get to 5000-10000mm. Pu coated is heavier though. I personally wouldn't use anything under 3000mm since with any less it can become difficult to keep the water out, especially in heavy rain or perpetual wetness.
__________________
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
11-30-15, 03:08 PM
#753
Senior Member
Also, I don't disagree with everything here, I just don't comment on the things that I don't disagree with. And I mean, there's disagreeing on both sides of this discussion, it's kinda the point of discussion. If you want an UL echo chamber, go start a topic called 'the UL echo chamber' or something.
I do however get irritated about people saying stuff about 'smarter choices' when the whole smartness is pretty much a valuing question. And often in UL it would seem to be, not a smart choice but an expensive choice.
11-30-15, 03:18 PM
#754
Bye Bye
Europe. It rains here....
Also, I don't disagree with everything here, I just don't comment on the things that I don't disagree with. And I mean, there's disagreeing on both sides of this discussion, it's kinda the point of discussion. If you want an UL echo chamber, go start a topic called 'the UL echo chamber' or something.
I do however get irritated about people saying stuff about 'smarter choices' when the whole smartness is pretty much a valuing question. And often in UL it would seem to be, not a smart choice but an expensive choice.
Also, I don't disagree with everything here, I just don't comment on the things that I don't disagree with. And I mean, there's disagreeing on both sides of this discussion, it's kinda the point of discussion. If you want an UL echo chamber, go start a topic called 'the UL echo chamber' or something.
I do however get irritated about people saying stuff about 'smarter choices' when the whole smartness is pretty much a valuing question. And often in UL it would seem to be, not a smart choice but an expensive choice.
i didn't think it rained in mordor (other than acid), so no tent is going to help you there.
__________________
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
11-30-15, 04:00 PM
#755
The posters here, on the other hand have enough staying power that I have no doubt that they can indeed mash a large load up a mountain using a minimum of 60 gear inches. And the pro heavy touring posters probably aren't slouches either!
11-30-15, 05:58 PM
#756
Senior Member
this tent or others in a slightly more expensive range certainly get into the whole topic of that if you spend X nights in a motel during a trip, even the cheapest of hotels, its going to add up to the cost of a really light tent fairly soon. Sure, you have to have a camp mat and a sleeping bag, but its all stuff you are going to use other times (if you are a camping sort of person) so in the end....
11-30-15, 06:11 PM
#757
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11-30-15, 06:17 PM
#758
Senior Member
Tarptents are perfectly capable and comfortable tents for 3 season weather. My Contrail has kept me dry in serious rainstorms. I'm always on the look out for a warmshowers host, a hostel or a motel, but I like being able to be comfortable when I'm camping too as being over 50 I need a good night's sleep, so I take gear that makes camping comfortable.
Being over 50 as well, or for anyone for that matter, getting a good nights sleep is pretty darn important to me as well, so its good to hear how competent your tent is, at its amazing low weight, and still keeping bugs off you.
11-30-15, 06:30 PM
#759
Banned.
I have tremondous respect for someone who could cycle from Sweden to Nepal. That's tough!! And then climb Everest without O2?? Super tough!! But there is no need to bring the climbing gear from Sweden to Nepal. Ship it to Katmandu and pick it up there. Warm up your brain cells. Less is better. But do be safe.
11-30-15, 06:53 PM
#760
Senior Member
Tarptents are perfectly capable and comfortable tents for 3 season weather. My Contrail has kept me dry in serious rainstorms. I'm always on the look out for a warmshowers host, a hostel or a motel, but I like being able to be comfortable when I'm camping too as being over 50 I need a good night's sleep, so I take gear that makes camping comfortable.
I almost always tour with my wife, and she still does not mind sharing a tent with me. Our 3 season tent weighs right at 4 lb. That is 2 lb/person. The Contrail weighs 1.7 lb.; so for less than 5 oz. more/ person we get a roomy, double walled tent. I have to admit this sounds good in theory, but unfortunately I'm the one who carries the tent
When our 2 daughters tour with us they split up the tent which is more with keeping with my assumption.
11-30-15, 06:57 PM
#761
Banned.
Someone asked about a lightweight gear list. There have been lots of links to lists in this discussion, but for ease here is what I took on the Northern Tier
Item: oz
Bike, Cervelo RS: 304
Carradice Camper Longflap: 31
Ortlieb Classic Large: 20
Tarpent Contrail: 28
Montbell UL Super Spiral Down Hugger 30F sleeping bag: 25
2x Compression Sack: 0 (include in other weights)
Thermarest NeoAir, Regular: 14
Exped Air Pillow: 3.5
Evernew Titanium Alcohol Stove:1
Evernew Titanium Mug: 2.5
Windscreen: 0.5
Bic lighter: 0.5
Sea to Summit X-mug: 1.5
REI LightLoads mini towel: 0.25
2 x Water Bottles Maxi Cincio one liter capacity: 7
Groundeffect Rock Lobster jersey with long sleeves and a zip: 7
Ex-Officio Convertible Long Pants*Lightweight trousers with zip off: 10
Rapha Merino Padded Boxers: 4
Smartwool PhD socks: 2
REI rain pants: 8
Smartwool balaclava: 2
Rain Jacket: Marmot Mica: 8
Marmot Catalyst jacket: 11
KungFu Shoes: 11
Sea to Summit Ultra-sil Day Pack: 2
Cord:Basic Utility cord: 2.5
Snow Peak Titanium Spork: 0.5
Antigravitygear 8 fl oz fluid bottle: 1
Tools:Topeak Alien II: 10
Parts/Spares: Brake and gear cables, AAA batteries, duct tape, cable ties, Fiber Flex spoke, patch kit, 4mm SHC screws, chain link: 6
Tubes:Continental Race 28, 25mm inner tubes: 6
Multitool:Leatherman Juice: 5
Umbrella: 6
Wash Kit: Toothpaste and brush, comb, shampoo, DEET, sun screen. lip balm, razor,medium REI camp towel: 9
Sunglasses: Julbo race:1
First Aid Kit: 3
Castelli Pioggia over shoes: 4
iPhone4: 6
Anker external battery: 8
Sony Walkman Radio SRF M37W: 4
Cables and earphones: iPhone AC adapter, iPhone charging cable, Hyperjuice USB charging cable: 5
Petzl headlamp: 3
Wallet: 4
Lenzyne Pump: 3
Lock:Kryptonite Kryptoflex 815: 10
Man***** Windstopper gloves: 2
Total Weight: 601 oz (37.5 lbs)
Items worn and consumables
Cap:2
Bandana:1
EMS Techwick Midweight T with long sleeves and half zip: 11
EMS Touring Shorts:6
Rapha padded underwear: 4
Smartwool PhD socks: 2
Shimano M076 shoes: 22
Food and Water: Raman, couscous, stock cubes, candy bars, dehydrated veggies: 100
Denatured alcohol: 7
Here is the bike and gear just outside of Galata, MT
and just the bags packed with everything on the list
Item: oz
Bike, Cervelo RS: 304
Carradice Camper Longflap: 31
Ortlieb Classic Large: 20
Tarpent Contrail: 28
Montbell UL Super Spiral Down Hugger 30F sleeping bag: 25
2x Compression Sack: 0 (include in other weights)
Thermarest NeoAir, Regular: 14
Exped Air Pillow: 3.5
Evernew Titanium Alcohol Stove:1
Evernew Titanium Mug: 2.5
Windscreen: 0.5
Bic lighter: 0.5
Sea to Summit X-mug: 1.5
REI LightLoads mini towel: 0.25
2 x Water Bottles Maxi Cincio one liter capacity: 7
Groundeffect Rock Lobster jersey with long sleeves and a zip: 7
Ex-Officio Convertible Long Pants*Lightweight trousers with zip off: 10
Rapha Merino Padded Boxers: 4
Smartwool PhD socks: 2
REI rain pants: 8
Smartwool balaclava: 2
Rain Jacket: Marmot Mica: 8
Marmot Catalyst jacket: 11
KungFu Shoes: 11
Sea to Summit Ultra-sil Day Pack: 2
Cord:Basic Utility cord: 2.5
Snow Peak Titanium Spork: 0.5
Antigravitygear 8 fl oz fluid bottle: 1
Tools:Topeak Alien II: 10
Parts/Spares: Brake and gear cables, AAA batteries, duct tape, cable ties, Fiber Flex spoke, patch kit, 4mm SHC screws, chain link: 6
Tubes:Continental Race 28, 25mm inner tubes: 6
Multitool:Leatherman Juice: 5
Umbrella: 6
Wash Kit: Toothpaste and brush, comb, shampoo, DEET, sun screen. lip balm, razor,medium REI camp towel: 9
Sunglasses: Julbo race:1
First Aid Kit: 3
Castelli Pioggia over shoes: 4
iPhone4: 6
Anker external battery: 8
Sony Walkman Radio SRF M37W: 4
Cables and earphones: iPhone AC adapter, iPhone charging cable, Hyperjuice USB charging cable: 5
Petzl headlamp: 3
Wallet: 4
Lenzyne Pump: 3
Lock:Kryptonite Kryptoflex 815: 10
Man***** Windstopper gloves: 2
Total Weight: 601 oz (37.5 lbs)
Items worn and consumables
Cap:2
Bandana:1
EMS Techwick Midweight T with long sleeves and half zip: 11
EMS Touring Shorts:6
Rapha padded underwear: 4
Smartwool PhD socks: 2
Shimano M076 shoes: 22
Food and Water: Raman, couscous, stock cubes, candy bars, dehydrated veggies: 100
Denatured alcohol: 7
Here is the bike and gear just outside of Galata, MT
and just the bags packed with everything on the list
You could trim a few oz. off that with a small sleep pad. smaller pillow? do you really need rain gear in july? But yes no reason to go stupid light. Bring what you need at night, carry less during the day. Don't go stupid light or stupid heavy. Warm up the brain cells.
11-30-15, 07:04 PM
#762
Senior Member
I have tremondous respect for someone who could cycle from Sweden to Nepal. That's tough!! And then climb Everest without O2?? Super tough!! But there is no need to bring the climbing gear from Sweden to Nepal. Ship it to Katmandu and pick it up there. Warm up your brain cells. Less is better. But do be safe.
Last edited by Doug64; 11-30-15 at 07:10 PM.
11-30-15, 07:17 PM
#763
Banned.
11-30-15, 08:09 PM
#764
Senior Member
I looked it up and quite like the Tarptent Contrail. To me it's pretty much a stripped down tent but covers all the bases: roof, bug protection, floor. For a small tent I am currently using a cheap small freestanding tent and the two ways I could see lightening and compressing it would be to replace the floor to something lighter and using aluminum instead of fiberglass poles but am seriously considering making my own design this winter.
11-30-15, 08:19 PM
#765
Senior Member
You could trim a few oz. off that with a small sleep pad. smaller pillow? do you really need rain gear in july? But yes no reason to go stupid light. Bring what you need at night, carry less during the day. Don't go stupid light or stupid heavy. Warm up the brain cells.
11-30-15, 08:24 PM
#766
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Yup. It's why climbers used to hike into Everest instead of taking a chopper.
I looked it up and quite like the Tarptent Contrail. To me it's pretty much a stripped down tent but covers all the bases: roof, bug protection, floor. For a small tent I am currently using a cheap small freestanding tent and the two ways I could see lightening and compressing it would be to replace the floor to something lighter and using aluminum instead of fiberglass poles but am seriously considering making my own design this winter.
I looked it up and quite like the Tarptent Contrail. To me it's pretty much a stripped down tent but covers all the bases: roof, bug protection, floor. For a small tent I am currently using a cheap small freestanding tent and the two ways I could see lightening and compressing it would be to replace the floor to something lighter and using aluminum instead of fiberglass poles but am seriously considering making my own design this winter.
Ultralight, durable, simple, inexpensive, wow.
11-30-15, 08:25 PM
#767
Senior Member
Europe. It rains here....
Also, I don't disagree with everything here, I just don't comment on the things that I don't disagree with. And I mean, there's disagreeing on both sides of this discussion, it's kinda the point of discussion. If you want an UL echo chamber, go start a topic called 'the UL echo chamber' or something.
I do however get irritated about people saying stuff about 'smarter choices' when the whole smartness is pretty much a valuing question. And often in UL it would seem to be, not a smart choice but an expensive choice.
Also, I don't disagree with everything here, I just don't comment on the things that I don't disagree with. And I mean, there's disagreeing on both sides of this discussion, it's kinda the point of discussion. If you want an UL echo chamber, go start a topic called 'the UL echo chamber' or something.
I do however get irritated about people saying stuff about 'smarter choices' when the whole smartness is pretty much a valuing question. And often in UL it would seem to be, not a smart choice but an expensive choice.
11-30-15, 08:31 PM
#768
Senior Member
https://www.tarptent.com/protrail.html
11-30-15, 09:56 PM
#770
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that protrail tarptent looks like they reinvented the U.S Army puptent, aka shelter-half. at only eight times the price available here. although i suppose it's lighter. not to forget the bug netting. ok, and floor...
now, that's the kind of precision that win's wars, boy!
army issue ground cloth for shelter half 15 dollars on ebay.
army issue mosquito netting 8 dollars on ebay.
ok, and floor... now, that's the kind of precision that win's wars, boy! army issue ground cloth for shelter half 15 dollars on ebay.
army issue mosquito netting 8 dollars on ebay.
Last edited by hueyhoolihan; 11-30-15 at 10:25 PM.
11-30-15, 10:37 PM
#771
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even less! can pick up cf frames online in chinaland for under $250.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...id=39225475471
or $375 including the fork+seatpost (although brand translates as "breaking wind")
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...id=35774379423
NOW.....if someone would make a full-carbon BOB trailer
with 12-kevlar-spoke wheel, at around 6 ounces total, we
could all tour with the kitchen sink and still be ultralight.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...id=39225475471
or $375 including the fork+seatpost (although brand translates as "breaking wind")
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...id=35774379423
NOW.....if someone would make a full-carbon BOB trailer
with 12-kevlar-spoke wheel, at around 6 ounces total, we
could all tour with the kitchen sink and still be ultralight.
BTW I read that some tents available w/CF tent poles, narrowing weight diff between tents & bivvies/hammocks.
11-30-15, 10:57 PM
#772
Senior Member
Some tent manufacturers have used CF poles. Our Sierra Designs tent had CF poles, but the female section of the connecting ferrules started to fatigue and crack, and were replaced with the aluminum poles that were used on later versions. They were replaced at no charge. I suspect the CF would have been fine, but we really abused the heck out of that tent. I actually like the aluminum poles better; they break down into smaller sections than the CF poles, making them easier to pack.
11-30-15, 11:12 PM
#773
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How is 60lbs going to make me miserable? That's 27kg. It's nothing. I took as much stuff on my very first week long hike when I was 14 years old and can't really remember it weighing me down at all. I even took 1kg or so in rocks with me because they were so cool (now I know better, don't collect rocks, since if everyone was doing it, it would be catastrophic) On a bike 27kg is a very small amount of weight, if you compare it towards the whole system.
Now hauling a full military pack (50kg or 110lbs) for 50 miles was something different. That was starting to get heavy at the end of the march.
Honestly, if 27kg is going to make you miserable you might want to look towards further conditioning. More weight is going to make you slower on the uphills, not miserable, at least if your gearing can handle the elevation gain.
Now hauling a full military pack (50kg or 110lbs) for 50 miles was something different. That was starting to get heavy at the end of the march.
Honestly, if 27kg is going to make you miserable you might want to look towards further conditioning. More weight is going to make you slower on the uphills, not miserable, at least if your gearing can handle the elevation gain.
Blue Ridge Parkway tour was challenging if not miserable with ~20 kg luggage though yeah, didn't train adequately. Loaded mountain touring is far more effort than flat or moderate rolling terrain, local prep rides need to be really hard, perhaps including a Jens Voigt "Shut Up Legs!" sticker on top tube!
11-30-15, 11:33 PM
#775
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Very impressive esp packing extensive stuff into small volume. Good to see a Cervelo getting a good workout. On local bike path many Cervelo owners insult the brand by twiddling around at low speed despite having no luggage.
