Tern Verge X11 the King of Folders
#52
Nope, not in my experience. The X11 is fast for a foldie, but its not as fast as a full sized road bike. In my experience, for the same effort I go about 10% faster on a full sized road bike compared to my X11. I *can* keep up with road bikes on my X11, but boy is it hard work.
Last edited by Kabuto; 03-26-24 at 07:45 PM.
#53
Bike Friday has entered the chat.
For me, the biggest difference between ETRO 451 and ETRO 406 is feel. This Pocket Rocket with ETRO 451 feels like 700c bike. I have a nearly identical Pocket Crusoe with ETRO 406 and it doesn't feel like a 700c bike. The difference is not big but it is noticeable.
For me, the biggest difference between ETRO 451 and ETRO 406 is feel. This Pocket Rocket with ETRO 451 feels like 700c bike. I have a nearly identical Pocket Crusoe with ETRO 406 and it doesn't feel like a 700c bike. The difference is not big but it is noticeable.
#56
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Thats a poor man's clone. Only its not. The handle bar is not even adjustable. You can't skimp on QUALITY. The Sram force groupset alone costs around £1000. Same way people clone Bromptons. But there's nothing quite like the real thing. And it will make your money back many times over. In the years ahead.
I don't doubt that's the price of the SRAM gruppo in the UK that comes on it. But you can get comparable performance from Shimano for half the price. You wanna be silly about money, fine, but make no mistake, there are better value alternatives. The King still has no clothes.
Adjustable handlebar? That's a liability in my book, adding complexity, weight and a reduction in stiffness. You see it as a plus, to me it's a minus.
£2,400 seven years ago is £3,164 or $3,990 today. $3,990 sure buys a lot of confirmation bias. Yeah, it's the king, alright. The king of price. 💰 👑 💰 And you want to be taken seriously? GTFOH.
Last edited by Ron Damon; 03-27-24 at 01:50 AM.
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#57
iti biking
#58
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they’re miles cheaper
they roll better
the car rides better
the rim is less likely to crack
the difference in handling is negligible compared to 18 inch tyres
However, r18 rims look better on publicity photos….
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#59
If that's how you want to play it, then I'll say that your Tern is the silly spendthrift man's, road-bike-envy bike. Two can play at condescension.
I don't doubt that's the price of the SRAM gruppo that comes on it. But you can get comparable performance from Shimano for half the price. You wanna be silly about money, fine, but make no mistake, there are better value alternatives. The King still has no clothes.
Adjustable handlebar? That's a liability in my book, adding complexity, weight and a reduction in stiffness. You see it as a plus, to me it's a minus.
£2,400 seven years ago is £3,164 or $3,990 today. $3,990 sure buys a lot of confirmation bias. Yeah, it's the king, alright. The king of price. 💰 👑 💰 And you want to be taken seriously? GTFOH.
I don't doubt that's the price of the SRAM gruppo that comes on it. But you can get comparable performance from Shimano for half the price. You wanna be silly about money, fine, but make no mistake, there are better value alternatives. The King still has no clothes.
Adjustable handlebar? That's a liability in my book, adding complexity, weight and a reduction in stiffness. You see it as a plus, to me it's a minus.
£2,400 seven years ago is £3,164 or $3,990 today. $3,990 sure buys a lot of confirmation bias. Yeah, it's the king, alright. The king of price. 💰 👑 💰 And you want to be taken seriously? GTFOH.
I spent £2,400 on an amazing bike to not only save me over £22,000 so far. But give me exercise too. Everything is relative. I love bikes. Other people blow their money on things and have nothing to show for it. And believe me £2,400 is nothing compared to what other people spend on even bikes. I have a friend who has a Moulton Speed. He spent £12,500 on that. And he rides it about 10 times a year. And still drives a car. I have another friend who bought a Rolex last year for £6,000. To me that's CRAZY.
And theres a Japanese guy on a YouTube channel called Brompton family time. He spent $5000 on a Tline Brompton. Then spends another $4000 on lightweight upgrades to knock another 2lbs of weight off the bike. And he STILL drives a car and takes the train. To me that's crazy. And I was in a well paid job. Everything is relative Mr.
Last edited by Sentinel1; 03-27-24 at 02:25 AM.
#60
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nope, the crankset is ~£200, and the gx derailleur and shifter is ~£250 cassette is £70
and manufacturers do not pay retail prices, they get “unpacked” components wrapped in bubble wrap.
last week I picked a new rival groupset for £200 from a manufacturer who was liquidating their stock and therefore sold it at least @ cost per uk law.
force 1 was about £400
and manufacturers do not pay retail prices, they get “unpacked” components wrapped in bubble wrap.
last week I picked a new rival groupset for £200 from a manufacturer who was liquidating their stock and therefore sold it at least @ cost per uk law.
force 1 was about £400
#61
55 aspect ratio used to be considered very low profile. Now I think 'Vettes come with 30 or 20? It's getting darned hard to find non-low-profile tires for my car that uses 14 or 15 inch wheels, can't remember.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 03-27-24 at 02:10 AM.
#62
nope, the crankset is ~£200, and the gx derailleur and shifter is ~£250 cassette is £70
and manufacturers do not pay retail prices, they get “unpacked” components wrapped in bubble wrap.
last week I picked a new rival groupset for £200 from a manufacturer who was liquidating their stock and therefore sold it at least @ cost per uk law.
force 1 was about £400
and manufacturers do not pay retail prices, they get “unpacked” components wrapped in bubble wrap.
last week I picked a new rival groupset for £200 from a manufacturer who was liquidating their stock and therefore sold it at least @ cost per uk law.
force 1 was about £400
Don't worry about how much something costs. Worry about how much its gonna save you. That's the point here. All you people arguing over a few thousand quid have missed the point completely.
Everything is relative. £2,400 seems like alot of money to someone who earns less than £30,000 a year. Its not to someone earning £80,000 a year. I can't stand tight people. I give more than £2,400 away to charities every year understand? Once again everything is RELATIVE.
Last edited by Sentinel1; 03-27-24 at 02:18 AM.
#63
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Nope, not in my experience. The X11 is fast for a foldie, but its not as fast as a full sized road bike. In my experience, for the same effort I go about 10% faster on a full sized road bike compared to my X11. I *can* keep up with road bikes on my X11, but boy is it hard work.
When I go for a 50k leisured group ride with my mates, they are doing sort of zone 2 ride on their endurance road bike and my data show two consecutive cyclocross races... good for my training though.
#64
Adjustable handlebar? That's a liability in my book, adding complexity, weight and a reduction in stiffness. You see it as a plus, to me it's a minus.
£2,400 seven years ago is £3,164 or $3,990 today. $3,990 sure buys a lot of confirmation bias. Yeah, it's the king, alright. The king of price. 💰 👑 💰 And you want to be taken seriously? GTFOH.
£2,400 seven years ago is £3,164 or $3,990 today. $3,990 sure buys a lot of confirmation bias. Yeah, it's the king, alright. The king of price. 💰 👑 💰 And you want to be taken seriously? GTFOH.
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#65
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Great minds think alike. If you're racy, low profile tires on larger rims provide room for bigger diameter brake discs, and the more rigid sidewalls provide lower tire slip angles when cornering. However, greater slip angle of the outer tire in a turn provides some ackermann geometry, which is why nearly all vehicles have steering geometry with well less than 100% ackermann, except low speed vehicles like golf carts that don't corner fast and operate on turf. So if you take a vehicle with a certain amount of design ackermann and then put stiffer tires on it, you don't have enough ackermann, and the tires squeal in tight turns in parking garages. And you feel every expansion strip.
55 aspect ratio used to be considered very low profile. Now I think 'Vettes come with 30 or 20? It's getting darned hard to find non-low-profile tires for my car that uses 14 or 15 inch wheels, can't remember.
55 aspect ratio used to be considered very low profile. Now I think 'Vettes come with 30 or 20? It's getting darned hard to find non-low-profile tires for my car that uses 14 or 15 inch wheels, can't remember.
yes, that's the sort f thing I did, race on dry(ish) tarmac with 50profil front and 45profil rear (~100mm sidewall in both cases) however, on crappy roads of wet, I run road legal wet tyre in 55profil front and 50profil rear (~110mm sidewall in both cases). It made in solter/smoother on poor surface and smoother/easier to control in slippery corners.
30/35 profil are becoming current but they tend to be on 245/255 tyres so it is still ~ 90mm sidewall
#66
The Tern X11 doesn't have a full Sram Force groupset though. Only the crankset and chainring is Force. The rear RD is from the X1 MTB groupset, which is the same grade as the Force road groupset, but Tern skimped on the trigger shifter, so that's GX grade, one down from X1, and the brakes are Shimano Deore, which is only fourth in the Shimano MTB hierarchy, sitting below XTR, XT, and SLX, so certainly not a particularly high end brake set. Actually, my main gripe with my X11 is its brakes. They're ok when riding on flats, but they overheat quickly and squeal like a banshee on any serious downhill. Still, all the components work adequately enough when set up properly.
The handlebar position isn't adjustable on the fly. The X11 handlepost and handlebar are actually extremely stiff, as is the frame. Bromptons feel downright noodley in comparison. iirc I think I paid about 198,000 yen (approx. 1550 Euros) for my X11 in August 2018, which seemed like a lot of money at the time, but I didn't really know much better and jumped in the deep end. If I knew what I know now about bikes back then, I think would have purchased something else.
The handlebar position isn't adjustable on the fly. The X11 handlepost and handlebar are actually extremely stiff, as is the frame. Bromptons feel downright noodley in comparison. iirc I think I paid about 198,000 yen (approx. 1550 Euros) for my X11 in August 2018, which seemed like a lot of money at the time, but I didn't really know much better and jumped in the deep end. If I knew what I know now about bikes back then, I think would have purchased something else.
I ride the X11 alot more. Because everything about it is special. And even a 15 mile ride with hills feels good. It can handle it all.
Last edited by Sentinel1; 03-27-24 at 02:41 AM.
#68
Nope, not in my experience. The X11 is fast for a foldie, but its not as fast as a full sized road bike. In my experience, for the same effort I go about 10% faster on a full sized road bike compared to my X11. I *can* keep up with road bikes on my X11, but boy is it hard work.
And I find the X11 easier on steep hills. The Bigger wheeled bikes I always found myself having to come off the saddle on steep hills. I never have to come off the saddle on the X11. Its an incredible climber.
Last edited by Sentinel1; 03-27-24 at 03:02 AM.
#69
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I dont get all this penny pinching. So what. I wanted a top end bike. And I got one. And its paid for itself 8 times over in what I've saved jn travel expenses. If I had paid that kind of money. And hardly ever used the bike. Like alot of people DO. That's another story.
Don't worry about how much something costs. Worry about how much its gonna save you. That's the point here. All you people arguing over a few thousand quid have missed the point completely.
Everything is relative. £2,400 seems like alot of money to someone who earns less than £30,000 a year. Its not to someone earning £80,000 a year. I can't stand tight people. I give more than £2,400 away to charities every year understand? Once again everything is RELATIVE.
Don't worry about how much something costs. Worry about how much its gonna save you. That's the point here. All you people arguing over a few thousand quid have missed the point completely.
Everything is relative. £2,400 seems like alot of money to someone who earns less than £30,000 a year. Its not to someone earning £80,000 a year. I can't stand tight people. I give more than £2,400 away to charities every year understand? Once again everything is RELATIVE.
hang on a minute, you came here proclaiming that your tern x11 is the best thing since sliced bread and your views seem very reduced to the advantage of 451. People came to offer different opinions which were all valid. Then you moved to the financial topic and again, people gave you different views to which you replied that I could understand people spending of expensive bike, rolex etc. but you justified the tern being better the FNHON because it add more expensive components etc.
I am sorry but if you are giving judgement and opinion on a public forum, you need to be prepared to get them debated and if you are putting forwards incorrect facts, they will be corrected.
Dahon and Tern frame using to be made in the same factory, which was either owned by dahon or tern depending of the settlement agreement following the schism between Father and [Son + Mother/ex wife]. That factory made licenced frame for other people (Nottingham brand Raleigh for example). I would not be surprise to hear the FNHON are make in a factory that makes Tern bike. Then, the choice of component is different and swappable. Dismissing a frame because somebody chose different components is short sited.
My gravel has the same frame as vitus/tiffossi and many other bikes. the difference in price comes from the logistic (direct consumer supply) and buying power, what groupset, wheelset, accessories they could get for a given price and a different profitability business plan. Does it make worse that another bike with equivalent component despite being £1000 cheaper? no
Also, from what I saw in many UK CX race, many people race with a mix sram groupset, Force1 crankset because most of force weight advantage is in the crankset, Rival Brifter because as good as force and not much heavier and apex derailleur because cheap to replace after a crash...
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#70
hang on a minute, you came here proclaiming that your tern x11 is the best thing since sliced bread and your views seem very reduced to the advantage of 451. People came to offer different opinions which were all valid. Then you moved to the financial topic and again, people gave you different views to which you replied that I could understand people spending of expensive bike, rolex etc. but you justified the tern being better the FNHON because it add more expensive components etc.
I am sorry but if you are giving judgement and opinion on a public forum, you need to be prepared to get them debated and if you are putting forwards incorrect facts, they will be corrected.
Dahon and Tern frame using to be made in the same factory, which was either owned by dahon or tern depending of the settlement agreement following the schism between Father and [Son + Mother/ex wife]. That factory made licenced frame for other people (Nottingham brand Raleigh for example). I would not be surprise to hear the FNHON are make in a factory that makes Tern bike. Then, the choice of component is different and swappable. Dismissing a frame because somebody chose different components is short sited.
My gravel has the same frame as vitus/tiffossi and many other bikes. the difference in price comes from the logistic (direct consumer supply) and buying power, what groupset, wheelset, accessories they could get for a given price and a different profitability business plan. Does it make worse that another bike with equivalent component despite being £1000 cheaper? no
Also, from what I saw in many UK CX race, many people race with a mix sram groupset, Force1 crankset because most of force weight advantage is in the crankset, Rival Brifter because as good as force and not much heavier and apex derailleur because cheap to replace after a crash...
I am sorry but if you are giving judgement and opinion on a public forum, you need to be prepared to get them debated and if you are putting forwards incorrect facts, they will be corrected.
Dahon and Tern frame using to be made in the same factory, which was either owned by dahon or tern depending of the settlement agreement following the schism between Father and [Son + Mother/ex wife]. That factory made licenced frame for other people (Nottingham brand Raleigh for example). I would not be surprise to hear the FNHON are make in a factory that makes Tern bike. Then, the choice of component is different and swappable. Dismissing a frame because somebody chose different components is short sited.
My gravel has the same frame as vitus/tiffossi and many other bikes. the difference in price comes from the logistic (direct consumer supply) and buying power, what groupset, wheelset, accessories they could get for a given price and a different profitability business plan. Does it make worse that another bike with equivalent component despite being £1000 cheaper? no
Also, from what I saw in many UK CX race, many people race with a mix sram groupset, Force1 crankset because most of force weight advantage is in the crankset, Rival Brifter because as good as force and not much heavier and apex derailleur because cheap to replace after a crash...
It's like the New Tline Brompton. Its costs £4,500. IS that going to stop people buying it who worship the brand that is Brompton. Hell no. If you've got the money and want it. Youre going to buy it. Meanwhile somewhere in Taiwan they are knocking out clones costing less than half as much. And people will buy those too. So what? Money is money. And like water rises to its own level. People will spend at their own level.
Would I spend £4,500 on a Brompton Tline? Helll no. But let's say my X11 ever got stolen or damaged beyond repair. The very next day. I would be seeking to get another one. Because to ME. Its the greatest bike of ALLTIME PERIOD. Just Like to Shu on YouTube BFT channel. The TLINE Brompton is the greatest thing since sliced bread to him. Try to understand this as hard as it may be for you to do so.
Last edited by Sentinel1; 03-27-24 at 03:32 AM.
#71
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No, you stated financial figures (wrong one) to justified quality: "You can't skimp on QUALITY. The Sram force groupset alone costs around £1000."
All I see is restricted views or deformed fact rather than actual facts and people are calling you on that.
All I see is restricted views or deformed fact rather than actual facts and people are calling you on that.
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#72
You got triggered by an opinion.
#73
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I agree with you, what is important is that a bike fits your needs and provides riding pleasure.
The price has no importance unless whats make you happy is not riding your bike but having the cheapest possible bike! If this is what makes you happy, an Fnhon frame with Litepro components is probably the best for you?
The price has no importance unless whats make you happy is not riding your bike but having the cheapest possible bike! If this is what makes you happy, an Fnhon frame with Litepro components is probably the best for you?
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#74
I agree with you, what is important is that a bike fits your needs and provides riding pleasure.
The price has no importance unless whats make you happy is not riding your bike but having the cheapest possible bike! If this is what makes you happy, an Fnhon frame with Litepro components is probably the best for you?
The price has no importance unless whats make you happy is not riding your bike but having the cheapest possible bike! If this is what makes you happy, an Fnhon frame with Litepro components is probably the best for you?
The quality of the bike shows itself over time. The frame is as stiff and robust as the day I first rode it. The wheelset still going strong. Never had a broken spoke. Its incredible. The only thing I've changed in 7 years. Is obviously tires. Chains a few cassettes and chainwheels. I changed out the seat post to a litepro after it got worn from all the up and down. And thats it.
Amazing bike.
Last edited by Sentinel1; 03-27-24 at 04:44 AM.
#75
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Why are you being needlessly antagonistic? We got a small group of folder fans here.
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