Classtime 

I think the colors line up just fine on that Panasonic--just not horizontal.
And if I was to ever get another new bike, I would have to be sure that I would never want to sell it. I have very rarely sold a vintage bike at a loss but I will never get my money back from my Milwaukee.

himespau 

It looks like they were trying to make a diagonal masking of the white/red transition across the fork, down and seat tubes, but the downtube transition is a bit too high (or not angled correctly). Maybe it's just the angle of the photo or my eyes aren't calibrated correctly.

Johnk3

With the additional cost of frame painting you are very close to what it would cost to get a fully custom made lugged frame steel bike handmade in Italy by one of the best frame makers in the world that is painted the way you want.
Cicli Barco has been making steel frames for 74 years. Their work is spectacular. Gianluca Barco is their contact and speaks fluent English. And he is an expert at getting the frame sizing exactly for you. They were awarded "Best of Italy" in the last Bespoked, the English version of the North American Handmade Bicycle Show two years ago. Although most of their bikes now are made with Columbus XCr stainless steel tubing, (very expensive tubes) they still do a variety of Columbus steel tubing in either TIG welded or lugged. They have a large number of options and you can get what ever you want. They also can get some great components at good prices from Campy and other European makers. They can also do a full bike if you want.

I had a custom XCr frame made by them about two years ago the price was much less than anything I could get in the US. It took about 6 months and I had about 145 emails between Gianluca and myself. You can email him for a price list and lug options etc at: info@ciclibarco.it Right now they are in England for this year's Bespoked bike show so they may not respond immediately.

Check them out on FaceBook or Instagram for photos of their work. Also see: https://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/66...rco-xcr-review https://business.facebook.com/cicli.barco/..

obrentharris 

Their lugged frames must be much cheaper than the TIG frame featured in the cyclist.co.uk review you linked, since that one, with fork, comes to $4,000 before tax and shipping.
Brent

P!N20

Johnk3

What is cheaper isn't the difference between lugged or TIG; it is the difference between the very expensive stainless steel Columbus XCr tubing and the non-stainless tubing. A set of bare XCr tubes list price is about $900. Besides, frames made in Italy and shipped to the US come free of VAT tax which is about 15%. Barco makes Columbus non-stainless steel frames which are a lot cheaper than the XCr. My XCr frame cost me $3,700 including shipping two years ago. The US import tax was only about $38 including a bunch of Campy stuff and carbon stuff.. And I had every high cost option on it. Barco will make regular steel like Columbus Spirit or SL for a lot less than the XCr frames. They even use stainless lugs because they are better than chrome and don't rust.

holytrousers

Look at the fourth picture with the frame alone, the dropouts are horizontal there..

mstateglfr 

The top of the red has 4 different angles, depending on which tube you look at.

It's actually something that is confusingly kinda common, if you look at internet bike paint pics.

Johnk3

Where are the speakers?

63rickert

I have seen and examined several of the Panasonics imported by Yellow Jersey in recent years. Quality is superb. Flash is non-existent. The value is there if it is what you want. IMO they are a great value if it is what you want.

Unless you speak Japanese the process of working with the builder is not happening. At the price no reason the builder should give you endless therapy time.

phtomita

If you purchase only frameset you can chose from vertical or horizontal dropouts.
I think if you buy a complete bike you get vertical one and direct FD mount. For frameset you can ask to not have it and use the clamp FD instead.

droppedandlost 

As much as I love old steel bikes, sometimes it's nice to have something new. I bought a new steel frame and it puts a smile on my face every time I ride it. If you like it, get it.

holytrousers

Thanks for the explanation,
Recently i've watched a documentary about a classic frame builder in Japan, Konno Shinichi...
don't you think it's better to purchase a new classical frame from an artisan rather than from a website ?
Here is the interview : https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/o...video/2058713/

microcord

For a Panasonic POS, you don't have to work with the builder. You can (and I think normally do) go to a shop listed by Panasonic as dealing with POS orders. There are dozens of these across Tokyo alone. (I can't speak from experience: I bought my frame used.) Among these, some are known to be pretty fluent in English.

Yes, you would have to be in Japan. This of course would present difficulties for many.

It's not obvious to me that you can order a Panasonic frame or bike from the website. Rather, the website tells you what's available, and you go to an actual, physical bike shop, and discuss the matter with a human.

Konno is the man heading the company that makes and sells Cherubim frames. The company's website is rather swish, and I'm pretty sure that Konno works with assistants. (I don't mean to knock the bikes; I've no reason to think they're not excellent.) Japan has plenty of other framebuilders who really do seem to work by themselves, perhaps with the occasional apprentice: Baramon, Raizin, Ohtaki, Yanagi, Equilibrium, etc.

holytrousers

They do all look great
too bad my japanese didn't get past learning the kanas.
So you think it's better to support those artisans rather than buy from a big company?

microcord

Panasonic is of course a vast company. I've no idea about the status within it of the order/custom-made sporty bikes sector. (Imaginably, very secure. Imaginably, surviving only because of its sentimental value to a couple of elderly bigwigs on the board of directors, and doomed when they retire. Of course, I hope that it's the former.)

Although my own frame is a Panasonic, I do hope that a lot of artisans in small workshops across Japan (and of course elsewhere) will continue to produce and repair frames, one by one.

holytrousers

Maybe also add the tradition and identity component to it also.

Bad Lag

My comment references the image at the OP's link, as seen below.