Hmmm

Thanks for these videos, they are awesome.

jrossbeck

Questions for those with group ride experience. I am considering getting into group rides this summer, this will be my 2nd year road cycling, my 3rd year of cycling for fitness (spent 1st year on a nice hybrid and MUPs before I got drop bars and hit the roads).

Obviously I will need to find an appropriate speed group, but for a no-drop vs drop ride, what it the common rule of thumb for tires/flats? I assume if you get a flat, you're dropped, but does that mean most folks in the top groups are not riding tubes? Just wondering. It's not like tubes just go flat for no reason, but wasn't sure about possible gear changes to start saving for. Thanks in advance.

Brian Ratliff

Yea, it might look like a strategy, but all this stuff is infinitely easier if you are fit. OP is not fit (yet). There are some tricks to staying with a group that is a little too hot... But most of those tricks only work if you have been riding a while. In particular, riding in close quarters not only shouldn't be an issue and something you are comfortable with; it should be second nature.

indyfabz

On the fifth ride I decided to wear jeans and that made all the difference.

wphamilton

Chase them down just on general principle, and if they're travelling at near my threshold slide back so they gap me a good bit - if some of them keep looking back then gradually close the gap and human nature will compel them to speed up. After a while if someone blows up or they start to slack on hills then briskly pass, otherwise they're probably too strong for me and I'd rather let them fade into the distance ahead.

More seriously, during my commute day before yesterday I came up on a few guys in matching team kit, and I connected the dots to a van I'd noted in the parking lot, a local pro development team. It was the first nice day and they were just spinning out the cobwebs or something. I simply passed the first chance I had - they'll zoom by later if they want to regardless of what effort I'm putting out. No reason to change what I'm doing just because there's a group out there, nor vice versa.

velociraptor

Around my area, most of the drop groups are training rides for racers.

So unless you want to be competitive, you stay away from those – especially if you haven't yet mastered the art of hanging on to someone's wheel.

No-drop rides typically have break points along the route to rest & wait for a regroup.

They usually also have one or more experienced riders sweeping from the back, to collect slower riders and pull them back to the group – and assist with mech issues like flats.

jrossbeck

Thanks a bunch. I'm guessing that's probably the standard then - i.e. only the fastest groups are drop rules. Appreciate the thoughts, I just don't want to be the Fred that shows up to a medium paced group with clinchers and everyone else is on tubulars just looking at me like an extra stop waiting to happen.

dave1442397

Yeah, same in this area. We only have two rides where people will leave you with a flat. Any other ride (and there are many) people will stop and help if necessary.

Mr IGH

I ride in the B+ group, newbies always go out the with the As, get dropped, then get dropped by us trying to hang on. I never understand why anyone would assume they can hang with the A group on their first ride with a group....

Mr IGH

There's a special phase for the type that doesn't take pulls in the break and then sprints for a place ahead of those that did take pulls; "Scumbag wheel sucker"...Next time I'm in a break with one that pulled that kind of crap, I ride 'em into the curb just to make the point.

caloso

I don't know about other areas, but around here the race rides (Wheelworks, Coffee Republic, the various River Rides) are all on well established routes. You are expected to be fully self-sufficient, at least as far as flats and minor mechanicals are concerned. Meaning: bring a tube or patch kit, a means of reinflating it, and a mini-tool wouldn't hurt either. If you flat, perhaps a teammate or buddy will stop with you, but the group certainly won't. Because these are well established routes, you may be able to take a shortcut or catch the group on the way back if it's an out-and-back.

Many race on tubulars, but I don't see many guys riding their race wheels on these rides. They're training rides so you ought to be on your training wheels. (The old school guys say you can change a tubular as quickly or quicker than a clincher, but I've never tried it on the side of the road and don't want to find out.)

caloso

Ignorance is one reason. I was encouraged to go on the 10am ride by a buddy who was a long time racer. I went on that ride for a year before I realized that there was a 9:45 B ride. I probably should have done that ride first, but by that time I'd gotten strong enough that there didn't seem to be any point on going on the B ride.

cafzali

Most groups/clubs have a way on their site to send messages to the ride leader. That functionality can be useful for situations where a particular leader may not be very detailed in their description, making it difficult to know what you're up against. If a ride is no drop, often the ride, or at least someone in the group, will stop and wait for folks to repair a flat. I've personally never seen a ride that isn't like that, but there's no "rule."

Personally, while I've got nothing against tubeless, there are lots of clincher tires that will give you great reliability on the road, such as the Continental GP4000SII or Michelin Pro 4 Endurance. These are just a couple, there are others. Tire choice is akin to choice of religion. People like what they like and everyone is convinced there's is the best, in many cases. But there are good versions in many different brands. Trick is finding the version that works for your riding.

wphamilton

I think that phrase should be "smarter than the work-horses".

It's just a tactic.

jrossbeck

Thanks to those who responded to my Q about fixing flat on a group ride. Really appreciate the tips, and feeling better about needing to maybe just upgrade my tires vs. entire wheel upgrade.

Brian Ratliff

Says the guy who can't sprint...

Ride a sprinter into the curb... Ha. If only. Rubber side to the sky is what'll happen if you try to pull that stunt on a sprinter.

velociraptor

Don't concern yourself with such nonsense. Most adults don't think that way, and the tiny minority that may are insecure toolboxes you don't want to associate with anyway.

Just find a good group that suits your level – and be friendly.

You'll be shocked at how cool most group riders really are – and how much fun you will have.

colnago62

Sprinters actually practice making contact with each other. Most enjoy that aspect of the game. I remember watching the Giro with Chippolini. Somebody tried to hook him to prevent him from coming around in the sprint. Slammed into him and just kept going. Lord help you, if the rider is a track sprinter

carpediemracing 

I don't know where you got being in the break from what I posted. I can't make it in breaks - only done it three times.

When I have been in breaks, I either shared pulls (one other guy, tried to give him a leadout but he attacked me instead), pulled but got yelled at to not pull (then carefully let the top 6 or whatever play it out - I got 8th or so out of 11 or 12), or haven't pulled with everyone else's permission and then let the fight play out - I got 3rd out of the 3 that made it to the line.

bt

gotta be a troll thread

caloso

I had no idea there was so much argey-bargey on the B+ ride. I think I'll stick with the A rides where it's more civil.

Brian Ratliff

No kidding. In my group, the most aggressive (passive aggressive?) ride is the second to highest group. The "A" group (we call them "open", formerly "hammer and nail" - cuz sometimes you're the hammer and sometimes you're the nail), will just ride you off their wheel without comment. Or if you're game, they'll play. They know that certain riders can put out 1600W for 5 seconds but are unable put out 250W for an hour while certain others can hold 350W forever but can't put out four digits if their life depended on it (and everything inbetween). It's a game. Strengths against weaknesses against strengths on both parts. That's bike racing, right? They try to ride you off their wheel and you try to hang in and out sprint them in the end.

The "B" ride (or "open 21" - meaning they are trying to keep a 21mph average pace on the flats) is full of guys that ride by the "rules". You've got guys complaining that the pace is too high for the group. You have people surging right out of the gate (sometimes even catching the A group as they are warming up) and attacking the group during a lull just after "fun" efforts (because it's "tactical" to sit in during the fun and then go out and shell a bunch of tired guys and shatter the group). And you've got guys complaining that certain people don't take pulls and then dare contest a sprint. Or they'll go bonkers on hills (many times with Strava on their GPS devices) and then roll through well known sprint spots and refuse to play.

If you are a track sprinter like me and can't hang anymore with the A group on the hills, the chill group to ride with is the "C" group. These are the guys who can go moderately fast at a relatively steady pace and they are just chill and out to have a good time.

cafzali

All this stuff is "aggravated" by the fact that different clubs have different interpretations of the scale. I have one club where a B+ is something I can definitely handle and another where they try to combine A and B+ and it ends up closer to being an "A," which isn't something I can do when there's a fair amount of climbing involved.

intransit1217

Wow. We're technically "slow" in my club. A=19+ B=16-18 C=12-15. Geez. i thought i was hot stuff when i could hang with the B group when we averaged 18 for the whole smack, including traffic crossings.

Brian Ratliff

We ride routes that basically include no stops. We are on the west edge of the greater Portland area, and there are rides where you can go 60 miles and put your foot down twice. So our average speeds tend to be high. Also, it's an artificial average; the number is intended to mean "average when traveling on flat ground", not "average over the whole ride including stops".

But yea, the road racers (including some Cat 2 and former domestic pro) are in the Open, and the "21 open" ride is made up of fast rec riders. All the trackies hang out in the third group and have fun while the roadies are out killing each other.