An underrated aspect of cycling as a sport is ...
#26
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I suspect people have somewhat varying definitions of group recreational rides, considering the references to crit and cat 1 and 2.
A lot of people do get together for social group rides that don't include pacelining. And, if you consider randoneuring, can just as demanding.
A lot of people do get together for social group rides that don't include pacelining. And, if you consider randoneuring, can just as demanding.
#27
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Someone who's been riding a bike all his life, whether it's a hybrid on the MUP or commuting to work, can likely pick up the necessary skills to ride with a local club B group easily. And with a few years or more serious training could probably hang with the A group. So in that sense, I agree with OP.
Riding competitively, however, is another matter. This takes some skills that some will never have--aggressive mindset, tenacity, smarts, quick thinking, and some big balls, and those are just the mental skills. It is very difficult to develop this skill set later in life, just like golf, tennis, basketball, hockey, etc.
Riding competitively, however, is another matter. This takes some skills that some will never have--aggressive mindset, tenacity, smarts, quick thinking, and some big balls, and those are just the mental skills. It is very difficult to develop this skill set later in life, just like golf, tennis, basketball, hockey, etc.
#28
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If you wanted to join me for a group ride all you would need is basic skills and endurance. If you tried to suck my wheel I'd say "cut that out".
Not everone who is avid wants to be a racer. Different strokes for different folks.
#29
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I'll elaborate. It depends what you mean by "short time" and "basic skills". I can assure you that riding in a group in a Pro-1-2 crit requires substantially more than "basic skills" that are "easily acquired". Having said that, this is likely not what the OP is talking about. It goes back to what the OP means by "cycling". Navigating a threshold drop ride with 34 MPH+ pulls, town line sprints and off-camber turns taken at speed in a tight group is obviously different than toodling along on a hybrid on a MUP.
I'm pretty sure I could pick up a racket and hit a ball against a wall today with no experience. Anything is easy if you set the bar low enough.
*I'm talking about not more than 6 inches or so.
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#31
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That's a really bad assumption on your part. I am not equating avid cyclists with road cyclists who ride in pacelines. Not even close.
Here is an example of one of our social group rides that doesn't include any pacelining. You have claimed that recreational group rides "require little more than the endurance to do them." This very common recreational group ride requires more than endurance. It require both climbing and descending skills that prevent novice ridersfrom being able to ride with "cyclists who've done it for years and are pretty avid about it."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sRVt5PALew
Here is an example of one of our social group rides that doesn't include any pacelining. You have claimed that recreational group rides "require little more than the endurance to do them." This very common recreational group ride requires more than endurance. It require both climbing and descending skills that prevent novice ridersfrom being able to ride with "cyclists who've done it for years and are pretty avid about it."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sRVt5PALew
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#32
Not sure what kind of crits you're talking about here. If you tried to join a crit here in Chicago with cat 1s and 2s (something like the Intelligentsia Cup) as a newbie with six weeks of riding under your belt, two things would happen:
First you'd be dropped in half a lap.
Secondly you'd piss off everyone on your way out the back.
First you'd be dropped in half a lap.
Secondly you'd piss off everyone on your way out the back.
Anyway this is the extreme end of what the OP is talking about. Being able to and enjoying riding with high level, experienced riders outside of sanctioned races is possible for many neophyte cyclists. It is much less possible in other sports. Which I agree with.
A better example, I can easily ride with a randonneur who has been awarded Super Randonneur several times and is a well experienced and skillful rider. I could not keep up with a hiker who is as experienced in their own sport. I could not participate appropriately with a golfer as experienced.
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#33
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My first inclination was to agree, but how many adults are truly starting from scratch late in life having never successfully balanced a bike as a kid? I have no frame of reference but suspect learning to ride a bike at 60 having never seen a bike in your entire life would be challenging. I wouldn't say any of my kids would consider themselves cyclists, but they struggled to ride as toddlers, got it and ride adequately now. Likely they could quit for decades and ride adequately again with minimal effort.
Contrast that with tennis. I picked it up in my 20s while travelling for work. I was working with a crew and after awhile we got tired of going to bars as main entertainment and one guy that had played off and on suggested we all get rackets. It was pretty ugly to start, but after a while not really all that long we were having competitive tournaments. We were playing everyday for at least an hour. In years after I've held my own against people who have played longer and were similar in general fitness. More years later my kids who would just want to beat the ball around every once in a while never really got it. Even though I hadn't played in 10 years I could still serve weakly and volley pretty well, but it was a challenge for them to return volleys even if I was trying to make it easy. They just never had the interest/time invested to get over the hump.
I think cycling appears to get picked up with ease later in life because the skill got set as a kid even if you weren't a 'cyclist'. For my generation it was THE means of transportation since parents didn't haul you around everywhere. In the same way I'd never have beaten a college athlete in tennis, I'd never beat a cyclist who trains at distance or speed either. I just ride because it's been a life long joy. Assuming you have the general skill to ride a bike, then performing well in terms of speed/distance is just a matter of how hard you train and how good are your genetics.
Contrast that with tennis. I picked it up in my 20s while travelling for work. I was working with a crew and after awhile we got tired of going to bars as main entertainment and one guy that had played off and on suggested we all get rackets. It was pretty ugly to start, but after a while not really all that long we were having competitive tournaments. We were playing everyday for at least an hour. In years after I've held my own against people who have played longer and were similar in general fitness. More years later my kids who would just want to beat the ball around every once in a while never really got it. Even though I hadn't played in 10 years I could still serve weakly and volley pretty well, but it was a challenge for them to return volleys even if I was trying to make it easy. They just never had the interest/time invested to get over the hump.
I think cycling appears to get picked up with ease later in life because the skill got set as a kid even if you weren't a 'cyclist'. For my generation it was THE means of transportation since parents didn't haul you around everywhere. In the same way I'd never have beaten a college athlete in tennis, I'd never beat a cyclist who trains at distance or speed either. I just ride because it's been a life long joy. Assuming you have the general skill to ride a bike, then performing well in terms of speed/distance is just a matter of how hard you train and how good are your genetics.
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Granted some people have unique riding skills, but in the over all world of cycling they are a very tiny part Life is easier if you dont take yourself too seriously.
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#36
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I don't know what you guys are talking about.
I used to be a top level skier and in no time at all I am a top level cyclist.
Just saying.
I used to be a top level skier and in no time at all I am a top level cyclist.
Just saying.
#37
Senior Member
Again, I likely disagree with you.
I'll elaborate. It depends what you mean by "short time" and "basic skills". I can assure you that riding in a group in a Pro-1-2 crit requires substantially more than "basic skills" that are "easily acquired". Having said that, this is likely not what the OP is talking about. It goes back to what the OP means by "cycling". Navigating a threshold drop ride with 34 MPH+ pulls, town line sprints and off-camber turns taken at speed in a tight group is obviously different than toodling along on a hybrid on a MUP.
My reason for objecting to the OP's premise is that I think more cyclists need to appreciate that riding a bike safely requires both skills and knowledge. I see a lot of people riding on the road who clearly have no idea what they're doing: salmoning, not signaling, not riding defensively, annoying drivers, endangering pedestrians. I also see a lot of people joining group rides who also have no idea that what they're doing: surging, not holding their line, allowing gaps to open up, not coming off the front smoothly, not pointing out obstacles. Etc. In both cases, I think some people don't appreciate that they are endangering themselves and others around them.
I think this is an important topic and worth picking apart. I read the OP's assumption as "it's just riding a bike, how hard can it be?" To me, that type of thinking contributes to the issues I describe above.
"Yelling"? Was this directed at me?
I'll elaborate. It depends what you mean by "short time" and "basic skills". I can assure you that riding in a group in a Pro-1-2 crit requires substantially more than "basic skills" that are "easily acquired". Having said that, this is likely not what the OP is talking about. It goes back to what the OP means by "cycling". Navigating a threshold drop ride with 34 MPH+ pulls, town line sprints and off-camber turns taken at speed in a tight group is obviously different than toodling along on a hybrid on a MUP.
My reason for objecting to the OP's premise is that I think more cyclists need to appreciate that riding a bike safely requires both skills and knowledge. I see a lot of people riding on the road who clearly have no idea what they're doing: salmoning, not signaling, not riding defensively, annoying drivers, endangering pedestrians. I also see a lot of people joining group rides who also have no idea that what they're doing: surging, not holding their line, allowing gaps to open up, not coming off the front smoothly, not pointing out obstacles. Etc. In both cases, I think some people don't appreciate that they are endangering themselves and others around them.
I think this is an important topic and worth picking apart. I read the OP's assumption as "it's just riding a bike, how hard can it be?" To me, that type of thinking contributes to the issues I describe above.
"Yelling"? Was this directed at me?
He simply implied that cycling at a high recreational level is much easier to do than almost all other sports and he was correct.
Sorry about the bruised egos. I hope all the Pro-1-2 crit riders in here don’t take offense
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#39
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I am probably the odd person out on this, but I don't consider bicycle riding a sport. I do consider racing a sport.
#40
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What you're quoting me on there is a pretty broad description. It could include world-class cyclists, or just one of the faster groups in a local club. I'm not sure what I'm missing. I assume cycling is like any other popular sport with a bell curve of skill levels and that cycling has its own Rafael Nadal or Roger Federer and it falls off from there. Based on my experience, it's more practical for a 50-year-old novice cyclist to make up ground on the average cyclist than it would be for a 50-year-old novice tennis player to make up ground on the average tennis player. Mainly because the novice cyclist can just outwork the average cyclist. Not sure that would be enough in tennis.
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#41
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#42
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#43
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#44
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Being able to eat and drink in close quarters, knowing how to take over the front without speeding up (slowing down might cause a crash, but the guy at the front will still be there), knowing when to pull off and still be able to rejoin at the back, knowing how to be in the draft in a cross wind, ...
not to to mention what’s necessary to not be a hazard to others.
not to to mention what’s necessary to not be a hazard to others.
Last edited by asgelle; 09-11-19 at 07:47 PM.
#45
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True, MTB has been mentioned in passing, yet folks persist in using "cycling" as if it is limited to riding on the road. Because that's all they know (like the OP).
"An underrated aspect of cycling as a sport is ...that cycling doesn't require an inordinate amount of skill development in order to be pretty good at it."
Heck, even riding some non-paved multi-use paths/trails require technical skills that would prevent a novice from being able to hang with Avid cyclists who have been riding for years.
"An underrated aspect of cycling as a sport is ...that cycling doesn't require an inordinate amount of skill development in order to be pretty good at it."
Heck, even riding some non-paved multi-use paths/trails require technical skills that would prevent a novice from being able to hang with Avid cyclists who have been riding for years.
#46
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What's odd are riders who think they are cycling, while lesser newbies and regular schmucks are merely riding a bike.
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#47
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I've played competitive tennis (NTRP 5.0) my whole life and cycled (CAT 3) my whole life. I think the time needed to reach an equivalent level of competency in the two sports is about the same.
To answer the original question: An underrated aspect of cycling as a sport is ... just how tough those skinny little pro cyclists are.
To answer the original question: An underrated aspect of cycling as a sport is ... just how tough those skinny little pro cyclists are.
#48
Since many folks consider golf a sport, I've kinda lost track as to what a sport is and what it is not. To make myself still feel like an athlete, I classify cycling as a sport, even if I ride alone to the coffee shop - as long as I sweat it has to be a sport.
#50
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I just mean being good enough so that you can enter a wide range of group rides.
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