Pinion? If so, P1.18 or C1.12?
#26
Palmer
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#27
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A Tout Terrain fitted with both a Pinion 12 and a Rohloff 14 was exhibited back on April 1, 2018.
https://youtu.be/e-ig-R65yHg?si=Qj63I1Vmo5RtNgzW
3000% gear range. No word on whether this custom model was ever ordered by anyone.
https://youtu.be/e-ig-R65yHg?si=Qj63I1Vmo5RtNgzW
3000% gear range. No word on whether this custom model was ever ordered by anyone.
#28
Pinion is mentioned in this thread on a tour:
2022 Scotland Trip - The Hebridean Way
***
One other thing to keep in mind, the Gates people want to make sure that frames are stiff enough and strong enough that the chainline (or beltline?) is maintained under all circumstances. Such frames are a bit heavier.
Besides a heavier gearbox, every pinion frame that I have seen described was a fairly heavy duty frame. Since you are striving for ultra light travel, that is something you might want to consider. How much heavier would this bike be?
2022 Scotland Trip - The Hebridean Way
***
One other thing to keep in mind, the Gates people want to make sure that frames are stiff enough and strong enough that the chainline (or beltline?) is maintained under all circumstances. Such frames are a bit heavier.
Besides a heavier gearbox, every pinion frame that I have seen described was a fairly heavy duty frame. Since you are striving for ultra light travel, that is something you might want to consider. How much heavier would this bike be?
It has a chain with a tensioner. I took the chain off, cleaned it and to facilitate (?) reinstalling it removed the little chain guard around the chainwheel. It is secured with six, three mm bolts with washers and Nylon nuts. That means you can't spin them up with your fingers, and have to hold the little nuts with pliers.
#29
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I am sure that violates the Rohloff chainring to sprocket ratios, could put warranty in jeopardy.
#30
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I just weighed my Tout Terrain Silk Road with the P-18, 42 lbs. that is with racks and a water bottle.
It has a chain with a tensioner. I took the chain off, cleaned it and to facilitate (?) reinstalling it removed the little chain guard around the chainwheel. It is secured with six, three mm bolts with washers and Nylon nuts. That means you can't spin them up with your fingers, and have to hold the little nuts with pliers.
It has a chain with a tensioner. I took the chain off, cleaned it and to facilitate (?) reinstalling it removed the little chain guard around the chainwheel. It is secured with six, three mm bolts with washers and Nylon nuts. That means you can't spin them up with your fingers, and have to hold the little nuts with pliers.
One other person on this forum mentioned that he had a Pinion with a chain, not belt, that surprised me. And now I learn that there is a second chain drive Pinion owner on this forum.
#31
Senior Member
42lbs is quite hefty, and while for some heavy trips this makes sense for the trade off of reliability, convenience, it's still quite a lot more than my troll , and certainly would be a factor in bike packing
#32
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When I think of bikepacking, I think of being able to resupply every few days, maybe up to four days between resupply at most with that limited luggage volume.
There always will be the ultra light people that do a two or three day ride on single track where they live almost exclusively on food that takes almost no prep, use bivy sacks, etc. That might have been the norm for bikepackers a decade ago, but I think that is a minority now. And there are a few that use that style for long distance road touring too.
But bikepacking photos suggest that racks are becoming much more common, rack use for bikepacking gear was almost unheard of a decade ago.
#33
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A Rohloff does not work well for that unless you want to buy a couple expensive hubs, but a Pinion could if the frame allowed both wheel sizes for diameter and width since the second hub is more affordable.
I prefer more bikes instead of more wheels for one bike, but different people have different priorities.
Since you are an ultra light kind of bike touring person, I think that the weight difference will be one of the most important factors for you. You are the only person I know that will shut off the stove before the water reaches a boil to save a few grams of fuel.
#34
Senior Member
All really good points T.
Being rather heavily loaded for sure, and the different rims thing is pretty much ruled out.
I wonder how heavy other P18 bikes are? There's that fellow here who has one, maybe a co-motion.
Pedaling walrus, that's his name.
I think a bit more weight than a regular typical bike packing bike that can take wide tires would be okay, but then it does come down to how competitive one is and ones priorities.
The belt thing for regular maintenance is the main attraction to me, but would I want a bike that is ten pounds heavier if I'm being really careful about load weight, probably not.
Last summer in Scotland I rode and talked with a young guy whose dad had bought himself a retirement present, a pinion and belt bike, don't know which one.
Being rather heavily loaded for sure, and the different rims thing is pretty much ruled out.
I wonder how heavy other P18 bikes are? There's that fellow here who has one, maybe a co-motion.
Pedaling walrus, that's his name.
I think a bit more weight than a regular typical bike packing bike that can take wide tires would be okay, but then it does come down to how competitive one is and ones priorities.
The belt thing for regular maintenance is the main attraction to me, but would I want a bike that is ten pounds heavier if I'm being really careful about load weight, probably not.
Last summer in Scotland I rode and talked with a young guy whose dad had bought himself a retirement present, a pinion and belt bike, don't know which one.
#38
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But that's not to reduce weight -- it is to extend the canister's useful life. Fewer trips to the store and less waste. I also leave the stove permanently screwed to the canister. Avoiding in/out pffchttt saves perhaps 0.5 g/day, meaning 1-2 more days of autonomy for a 100g canister. (too much free time on my hands, I suppose
#39
One other point. More and more people are trying to set up an everything bike, a bike with narrower 700c wheels for pavement and wider 650b wheels for off road where wider tires may be used. That started to become a thing with disc brakes. It was generally impractical to do that with rim brakes.
A Rohloff does not work well for that unless you want to buy a couple expensive hubs, but a Pinion could if the frame allowed both wheel sizes for diameter and width since the second hub is more affordable.
I prefer more bikes instead of more wheels for one bike, but different people have different priorities.
Since you are an ultra light kind of bike touring person, I think that the weight difference will be one of the most important factors for you. You are the only person I know that will shut off the stove before the water reaches a boil to save a few grams of fuel.
A Rohloff does not work well for that unless you want to buy a couple expensive hubs, but a Pinion could if the frame allowed both wheel sizes for diameter and width since the second hub is more affordable.
I prefer more bikes instead of more wheels for one bike, but different people have different priorities.
Since you are an ultra light kind of bike touring person, I think that the weight difference will be one of the most important factors for you. You are the only person I know that will shut off the stove before the water reaches a boil to save a few grams of fuel.
#40
All really good points T.
Being rather heavily loaded for sure, and the different rims thing is pretty much ruled out.
I wonder how heavy other P18 bikes are? There's that fellow here who has one, maybe a co-motion.
Pedaling walrus, that's his name.
I think a bit more weight than a regular typical bike packing bike that can take wide tires would be okay, but then it does come down to how competitive one is and ones priorities.
The belt thing for regular maintenance is the main attraction to me, but would I want a bike that is ten pounds heavier if I'm being really careful about load weight, probably not.
Last summer in Scotland I rode and talked with a young guy whose dad had bought himself a retirement present, a pinion and belt bike, don't know which one.
Being rather heavily loaded for sure, and the different rims thing is pretty much ruled out.
I wonder how heavy other P18 bikes are? There's that fellow here who has one, maybe a co-motion.
Pedaling walrus, that's his name.
I think a bit more weight than a regular typical bike packing bike that can take wide tires would be okay, but then it does come down to how competitive one is and ones priorities.
The belt thing for regular maintenance is the main attraction to me, but would I want a bike that is ten pounds heavier if I'm being really careful about load weight, probably not.
Last summer in Scotland I rode and talked with a young guy whose dad had bought himself a retirement present, a pinion and belt bike, don't know which one.
#41
Senior Member
frogshawn: The Rohloff is the only internally geared setup that is Tandem rated. It is aproxametly 1 kilo lighter than the Pinion. The weight thing has no effect on me riding my bicycle. This is a heavy rear wheel with the Rohloff. I notice it when repairing a flat tire. The added friction for internal geared setups is over emphasized. Most of the negative comments about the Rohloff and Pinion are talking heads that like to hear there own voice and they just repeat the same propaganda that the previous reviewer said.
#42
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#43
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But that's not to reduce weight -- it is to extend the canister's useful life. Fewer trips to the store and less waste. I also leave the stove permanently screwed to the canister. Avoiding in/out pffchttt saves perhaps 0.5 g/day, meaning 1-2 more days of autonomy for a 100g canister. (too much free time on my hands, I suppose
I am packing for my next trip. Usually I bring liquid fuel stove for trips where I do not need to fly, but it will be a long enough trip that I will need to buy more fuel, and I do not want to buy a gallon of coleman fuel along the way. Thus, I will be using 220 gram canisters. With a single 100 gram canister as a backup in case I run low. Starting the trip with a 100 and a 220 gram canister, buy more as I go.
#44
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frogshawn: The Rohloff is the only internally geared setup that is Tandem rated. It is aproxametly 1 kilo lighter than the Pinion. The weight thing has no effect on me riding my bicycle. This is a heavy rear wheel with the Rohloff. I notice it when repairing a flat tire. The added friction for internal geared setups is over emphasized. Most of the negative comments about the Rohloff and Pinion are talking heads that like to hear there own voice and they just repeat the same propaganda that the previous reviewer said.
And changing a flat. This was the only time I ever tried one of those thick wall thorn resistant very heavy innertubes. Defective tube, lasted only a couple days.
#45
Senior Member
Tourist in MSN I have the Velocity 26" Psycho rims and Schwalbe Pickup tires on my bicycle. I believe my rim weight is close to yours. The rear wheel weighs 10.4 pounds. If I ever need a new rim I have some Ryde Andra 40s in the garage.
#46
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CORRECTION:
I wanted wider, not narrower.
Last edited by Tourist in MSN; 05-17-24 at 04:05 AM.
#47
frogshawn: The Rohloff is the only internally geared setup that is Tandem rated. It is aproxametly 1 kilo lighter than the Pinion. The weight thing has no effect on me riding my bicycle. This is a heavy rear wheel with the Rohloff. I notice it when repairing a flat tire. The added friction for internal geared setups is over emphasized. Most of the negative comments about the Rohloff and Pinion are talking heads that like to hear there own voice and they just repeat the same propaganda that the previous reviewer said.
#48
I had to look up CSS, never heard of it. Looks interesting, but they don't mention the material except to say a "long chain polymer". My guess would be UHMWPE, given it's now ubiquitous use in everything from high-performance sailboat running and standing rigging, to logging and winch lines, to commercial fishing lines and nets. As strong and stiff as Kevlar but little or no UV vulnerability. If you actually know what CSS is, do tell, I'd be interested. Thanks.
#49
Got it. I assumed it was to save the weight, only a 100 gram canister is needed instead of a 220 gram at the start of a trip.
I am packing for my next trip. Usually I bring liquid fuel stove for trips where I do not need to fly, but it will be a long enough trip that I will need to buy more fuel, and I do not want to buy a gallon of coleman fuel along the way. Thus, I will be using 220 gram canisters. With a single 100 gram canister as a backup in case I run low. Starting the trip with a 100 and a 220 gram canister, buy more as I go.
I am packing for my next trip. Usually I bring liquid fuel stove for trips where I do not need to fly, but it will be a long enough trip that I will need to buy more fuel, and I do not want to buy a gallon of coleman fuel along the way. Thus, I will be using 220 gram canisters. With a single 100 gram canister as a backup in case I run low. Starting the trip with a 100 and a 220 gram canister, buy more as I go.
Thus, even I can't deny the tiny size and weight of modern canister stoves. I just hate the disposability of the cartridges; A year ago I looked into refilling them with propane (using a scale, because no Overfill Protection Device (OPD)), but still a big NO, propane has 3X the vapor pressure of butane, that's why the (thin wall) cartridges are a mix and propane bottles are a lot thicker. And I wouldn't try to mix my own. But since the pandemic, isobutane cartridges cost a bunch. However, spraypaint-can-size butane cartridges (for one burner stoves often seen in asian markets) are $2 at my local asian food store, and that is very cost/heat competitive to propane, and even white gas. All I need to get is a valve adaptor between that form-factor valve and the stove, commonly available on amazon, and a stand to stabilize the tall cartridge and stove. Now, 100% butane works poor in really cold weather, but for my bike trips, it would be fine, and those butane cartridges are probably easier to buy on the road versus the camping stove ones; Maybe. Sometimes they are sold in packs of 6, 8, or 10; My local store will sell singles for $2.
#50
Senior Member
If you want to carry the extra weight there are refillable 1 gallon propane canisters. Propane will work on most if not all canister stoves. I use a remote canister stove that has a heat tube. The heat tube allows for colder weather use and the gas line coming off of the stove allows The use of a wind screen.