View Poll Results: Do you favor mandatory-helmet laws (for adults)?
Yes.
23
14.47%
No: I favor helmets, but not laws requiring people to wear them.
111
69.81%
No: I'm against the use of helmets.
25
15.72%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll
Do You Favor Mandatory-Helmet Laws?
10-13-09, 05:14 AM
#26
Actually I voted no. But, not sure I meant it.. I tend to respect the wishes of those who don't want to wear helmets.. But, deep down do I.?..
I once recall the comments of some police testifying about the needs for a motorcycle helmet law.. Their argument.. I am the one who has to pick up body parts on the road. And to have one's head intact makes clean up easier.. I can see his point. !.
While I have some Libertarian values, I'd be squeamish to ride with cycle friends on a regular basis if they consistently did not wear a helmet. It might be my job to move their broken body parts off of the road.. Besides, I think helmets are cool.
I once recall the comments of some police testifying about the needs for a motorcycle helmet law.. Their argument.. I am the one who has to pick up body parts on the road. And to have one's head intact makes clean up easier.. I can see his point. !.
While I have some Libertarian values, I'd be squeamish to ride with cycle friends on a regular basis if they consistently did not wear a helmet. It might be my job to move their broken body parts off of the road.. Besides, I think helmets are cool.
10-13-09, 05:18 AM
#27
Senior Member
I had a freak fall once.. Hit my head on a concrete curb. A direct hit right on my left temple.. It ached a bit, sans helmet- I bet it might have taken me to ER.. We all tend to make our own decisions based on our own experiences..
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10-13-09, 05:22 AM
#28
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Good luck with this! You've hit the most sensitive nerve in cycling, motorized and non-motorized. As much as I'd like to say that it is a matter of individual choice, it's not. The increased injury, morbidity and mortality rates which result from not wearing helmets affects everybody who pays insurance premiums, whether auto or property owner's. It is not a question of anybody's choice of personal safety. That is my stance, I will make no other contribution to this thread.
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10-13-09, 05:27 AM
#29
Btw. while I sure most/all people in this thread and in general in these forums talking about the pros and cons of wearing helmets while cycling are well-meaning, I am convinced that mandatory helmet laws often have the intent of getting cyclists off the road and of punishing cyclists for bothering car-drivers.
10-13-09, 08:28 AM
#31
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Good luck with this! You've hit the most sensitive nerve in cycling, motorized and non-motorized. As much as I'd like to say that it is a matter of individual choice, it's not. The increased injury, morbidity and mortality rates which result from not wearing helmets affects everybody who pays insurance premiums, whether auto or property owner's. It is not a question of anybody's choice of personal safety. That is my stance, I will make no other contribution to this thread.
10-13-09, 09:34 AM
#32
The only mandatory use law I'm in favor of involves the mandatory use of gags and sadistic torture devices on zealots who presume to tell other people how to live their own lives.
10-13-09, 09:50 AM
#34
Good luck with this! You've hit the most sensitive nerve in cycling, motorized and non-motorized. As much as I'd like to say that it is a matter of individual choice, it's not. The increased injury, morbidity and mortality rates which result from not wearing helmets affects everybody who pays insurance premiums, whether auto or property owner's. It is not a question of anybody's choice of personal safety. That is my stance, I will make no other contribution to this thread.
If you wanted to fix the economic impact of such ill advised activity, you would do so by supporting legislation that requires insurers to write exceptions and modifications into the health insurance policies, and by legally requiring insurers to offer policies priced both with and without the restrictions, with both option being ACTUARIALLY PRICED (as opposed to punitatively pricing).
But that's not what you REALLY want. What you really want is to be able to tell other people what risks YOU find to acceptable in THEIR lives. And to that I say.... bleep bleep bleep yourself you bleep bleep bleep bleep because I don't intend to live MY live in the cocoon of YOUR choice.
10-13-09, 09:53 AM
#35
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I would never support a 'mandatory law' on anything which is as individualized as the helmet issue.
roughstuff
10-13-09, 09:58 AM
#36
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I voted "no". I think it should be left up to the individual.
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Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen
Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
10-13-09, 10:01 AM
#37
Senior Member
This is the price to pay for public health services; if the community foots the bill they should have a say in preventing unnecessary accidents.
10-13-09, 10:27 AM
#38
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Originally Posted by irwin7638
..... As much as I'd like to say that it is a matter of individual choice, it's not. The increased injury, morbidity and mortality rates which result from not wearing helmets affects everybody who pays insurance premiums, whether auto or property owner's. .......
10-13-09, 10:47 AM
#40
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I wonder how those of you who feel this passionate at being against helmet laws feel about seat belt laws. Do you feel the same? Regardless of how you feel about seat belt laws and especially those of you who do not wear helemts for the reasons mentioned, do you wear one when in a car? Why? Because of the law and the fine you'd receive, or because they do save lives and protect you if in a collision, roll over, etc?
Before you ask what I do, I'll tell you. I have always worn one, long before it was law so it is not because of the law. I am old enough to remember when it was made a mandatory law in my state. I remember all the *****ing and moaning people did, some of them sounded like a lot of you in regards to helmet laws. They went off on a tangent that it is a restriction on their freedoms, freedom of choice, etc, despite proven fact that they do save lives.
To this day I know of people who will not wear a seat belt because of the law. They have received multiple citations because of this. Some of these people I have had to tell you either wear one in my car or you do not ride with me. Needless to say some of them got out of my car and did not ride with me, no skin off my nose, my car, my rules.
So I ask again, how do you people feel about seat belt laws? Do you wear one when in a car? Why?
Before you ask what I do, I'll tell you. I have always worn one, long before it was law so it is not because of the law. I am old enough to remember when it was made a mandatory law in my state. I remember all the *****ing and moaning people did, some of them sounded like a lot of you in regards to helmet laws. They went off on a tangent that it is a restriction on their freedoms, freedom of choice, etc, despite proven fact that they do save lives.
To this day I know of people who will not wear a seat belt because of the law. They have received multiple citations because of this. Some of these people I have had to tell you either wear one in my car or you do not ride with me. Needless to say some of them got out of my car and did not ride with me, no skin off my nose, my car, my rules.
So I ask again, how do you people feel about seat belt laws? Do you wear one when in a car? Why?
10-13-09, 10:55 AM
#41
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In any case, If there is no differential, then the premiums charged to helmet wearers and non wearers would be the same. Irwin's claim may be specious; as a statistician, I have alot of respect for the statistical prowess of the insurance industry. They have every incentive to navigate those tough social science waters that ya are referring to.
roughstuff
10-13-09, 10:57 AM
#42
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10-13-09, 11:01 AM
#43
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I wear my helmet in my car, too!
roughstuff
10-13-09, 11:05 AM
#44
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Tempted to say then, point, set, match. (is that the order? I forget how tennis works). My health insurance policy is a miasma and incomprehensible, but i saw nothing in there about a 'helmet discount' or 'non-helmet premium. I'll be quiet before I give 'em any ideas!
roughstuff
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10-13-09, 11:37 AM
#45
Senior Member
Good luck with this! You've hit the most sensitive nerve in cycling, motorized and non-motorized. As much as I'd like to say that it is a matter of individual choice, it's not. The increased injury, morbidity and mortality rates which result from not wearing helmets affects everybody who pays insurance premiums, whether auto or property owner's. It is not a question of anybody's choice of personal safety. That is my stance, I will make no other contribution to this thread.
What about health insurance. Candy, smoking, sedentary behavior, not enough sex; should these things be regulated because they raise rates?
It's easy to see regulating direct damage to others, but indirect damage caused through a market mechanism? I just don't agree.
Either way, you could simply have an option on your hypothetical bicycle insurance about whether you wear a helmet or not. You'd pay more if you don't (like owning a sports car) and that should make up for your difference in behavior.
10-13-09, 11:39 AM
#46
Senior Member
I wonder how those of you who feel this passionate at being against helmet laws feel about seat belt laws. Do you feel the same? Regardless of how you feel about seat belt laws and especially those of you who do not wear helemts for the reasons mentioned, do you wear one when in a car? Why? Because of the law and the fine you'd receive, or because they do save lives and protect you if in a collision, roll over, etc?
Before you ask what I do, I'll tell you. I have always worn one, long before it was law so it is not because of the law. I am old enough to remember when it was made a mandatory law in my state. I remember all the *****ing and moaning people did, some of them sounded like a lot of you in regards to helmet laws. They went off on a tangent that it is a restriction on their freedoms, freedom of choice, etc, despite proven fact that they do save lives.
To this day I know of people who will not wear a seat belt because of the law. They have received multiple citations because of this. Some of these people I have had to tell you either wear one in my car or you do not ride with me. Needless to say some of them got out of my car and did not ride with me, no skin off my nose, my car, my rules.
So I ask again, how do you people feel about seat belt laws? Do you wear one when in a car? Why?
Before you ask what I do, I'll tell you. I have always worn one, long before it was law so it is not because of the law. I am old enough to remember when it was made a mandatory law in my state. I remember all the *****ing and moaning people did, some of them sounded like a lot of you in regards to helmet laws. They went off on a tangent that it is a restriction on their freedoms, freedom of choice, etc, despite proven fact that they do save lives.
To this day I know of people who will not wear a seat belt because of the law. They have received multiple citations because of this. Some of these people I have had to tell you either wear one in my car or you do not ride with me. Needless to say some of them got out of my car and did not ride with me, no skin off my nose, my car, my rules.
So I ask again, how do you people feel about seat belt laws? Do you wear one when in a car? Why?
10-13-09, 12:31 PM
#47
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The increased health care expense issue is something no helmet-wearer actually believes or thinks about. I really want to know why you care about a strangers health? A family member I can understand, advocate they wear helmets, but a stranger's? I don't care about your health and welfare and don't want to influence it in any way, leave mine alone too. (Not to be offensive - just the truth.)
10-13-09, 12:38 PM
#48
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riding a bike is not so inherently dangerous as to require special armor or a helmet. the most important thing you can do for your own safety is ride well, ride carefully, and pay attention to what's around you. Helmets should be left up to the individual rider's choice.
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"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen
Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen
Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
10-13-09, 12:43 PM
#49
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Ok. But do you wear one? Why?
10-13-09, 12:48 PM
#50
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Let's look at this another way. What about parents who ride bike with their kids, the parents do not have a helmet on, but make the kids wear one? How many of you that are parents of young kids do this? Why?
If you do not wear a helmet, but make your kids do so, is that not teaching you child the wrong thing? Are you not being a hyppocrite? Is this how parents want to appear in the eyes of their kids? Or is your justification or your philosophy of this the "do as say, not as I do" attitude?
Or do those of you who are parents do this because there is a law in your community, for those that have such laws, requiring youngsters to wear a helmet up to a certain age? And with out the law you would not have your kids wear a helmet?
Before you say anything I am not a parent and am not offering advice on parenting or stating how you raise your child is right or wrong. I am asking questions.
If you do not wear a helmet, but make your kids do so, is that not teaching you child the wrong thing? Are you not being a hyppocrite? Is this how parents want to appear in the eyes of their kids? Or is your justification or your philosophy of this the "do as say, not as I do" attitude?
Or do those of you who are parents do this because there is a law in your community, for those that have such laws, requiring youngsters to wear a helmet up to a certain age? And with out the law you would not have your kids wear a helmet?
Before you say anything I am not a parent and am not offering advice on parenting or stating how you raise your child is right or wrong. I am asking questions.
