Velo Orange frames
#26
Senior Member
I have no direct experience with V-O frame sets, so I can't attest to their goodness or ride quality, but having converted a few 70s and 80s road bikes to 650B, one big advantage I can see with the Polyvalent is that you don't need to make compromises: You can use canti brakes so no need to search for long-reach calipers; since it's built for 650B, you don't have to fiddle or worry about fender line; the long top tube is intended to compensate for the use of upright city bars, plus as others have pointed out, it has loads of brazeons for fenders, racks, etc. I'd guess that a lot of them will be sold as complete bikes built by V-O dealers, rather than as frame sets. You can go to the bike shop and walk away with a complete 650B city bike for about a grand. If you're in the market for such a thing, that seems like a pretty good deal.
Neal
Neal
#27
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if you can ride a 59 here is a great looking Rivendale. https://go.bikeforums.net/?id=42X1295...t-II%2Fpage237 only $850 in Boston
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
#28
Senior Member
if you can ride a 59 here is a great looking Rivendale. https://go.bikeforums.net/?id=42X1295...t-II%2Fpage237 only $850 in Boston
I have a buddy that is looking for one of these, so I'll alert him.
Appreciate it.
#29
I saw a Polyvalent in person. I thought the matte black finish looked cheap and unattractive and not unlike a spraypaint job. I thought they looked nice online, but in person, they turned me off.
for the same price (or less) as a VO Rando, you can buy a Bob Jackson frame. The End-to-End and World Tour have all the provisions one would need. And dare I say the quality of the tubing, alignment, and frame build would be higher.
for the same price (or less) as a VO Rando, you can buy a Bob Jackson frame. The End-to-End and World Tour have all the provisions one would need. And dare I say the quality of the tubing, alignment, and frame build would be higher.
#31
PanGalacticGargleBlaster
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I have no direct experience with V-O frame sets, so I can't attest to their goodness or ride quality, but having converted a few 70s and 80s road bikes to 650B, one big advantage I can see with the Polyvalent is that you don't need to make compromises: You can use canti brakes so no need to search for long-reach calipers; since it's built for 650B, you don't have to fiddle or worry about fender line; the long top tube is intended to compensate for the use of upright city bars, plus as others have pointed out, it has loads of brazeons for fenders, racks, etc. I'd guess that a lot of them will be sold as complete bikes built by V-O dealers, rather than as frame sets. You can go to the bike shop and walk away with a complete 650B city bike for about a grand. If you're in the market for such a thing, that seems like a pretty good deal.
Neal
Neal
My modern Raleigh One-Way has all the same brazeons as the VO frame. Matter of fact you can get a pretty similar bike to the polyvalent in the new Raleigh Clubman
its got pretty much everything the VO frame does except you could (presumably) convert it to 650B or and go back to 700C when you got tired of it.
i've got nothing against velo-orange, i use a lot of their products...i just don't like this frame.
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#32
sultan of schwinn
Pretty much any decent 80's Japanese bike will fit modern parts with little to no modification and can be had complete for less than just the VO Frame.
Add to that the fact that you have to be willing to accept a sloping top tube and a TIG welded frame...IMHO that frame is ugly.
Add to that the fact that you have to be willing to accept a sloping top tube and a TIG welded frame...IMHO that frame is ugly.
Get a late 80s/early 90s TIG welded Japanese hybrid and will be the same as the polyvalent for far less $
(on the other hand, I looked at the specs of a complete Surly long hauler -or whatever they call it- the other day, and that thing might worth it at that price point)
Last edited by EjustE; 07-23-10 at 09:52 PM.
#33
perpetually frazzled
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I'm really interested in a Bob Jackson...I just need to pull the trigger...
#34
Senior Member
It kind of seems to me that the compromise with a VO frame is that you're stuck with 650B. with a 27" or 700C frame you could convert it to 650B and if you get tired of it you can do it up a different way with 700C.
My modern Raleigh One-Way has all the same brazeons as the VO frame. Matter of fact you can get a pretty similar bike to the polyvalent in the new Raleigh Clubman. its got pretty much everything the VO frame does except you could (presumably) convert it to 650B or and go back to 700C when you got tired of it.
i've got nothing against velo-orange, i use a lot of their products...i just don't like this frame.
My modern Raleigh One-Way has all the same brazeons as the VO frame. Matter of fact you can get a pretty similar bike to the polyvalent in the new Raleigh Clubman. its got pretty much everything the VO frame does except you could (presumably) convert it to 650B or and go back to 700C when you got tired of it.
i've got nothing against velo-orange, i use a lot of their products...i just don't like this frame.
Neal
#35
Senior Member
Neal
#36
Senior Member
Why are you comparing a brifter bike with sidepull brakes to the Polyvalent anyway?
Neither one of them appeals to me at all. I'm into vintage bikes and the only thing vintage about either one is the Clubman's name.
At least the Bob Jackson looks vintage.
#37
Senior Member
My point is that while you can convert lots of bikes for lots of purposes, the Polyvalent is well designed for a specific setup/use.
#40
Junior Mint
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Mmm, Bob Jackson World Tour, 425 GBP + 90 GBP shipping to the US or about $800. V-O Rando Frame is $750 plus whatever domestic shipping would be. Hmm, if I were in the market, BJ would be getting my money.
Neal
Neal
#41
honestly, if that guitar is your idea how the Polyvalent frame actually looks in person, you're in for a big disappointment. and like I said, it's not just the matte black color -- the quality itself of the work seems quite low, and well, mass-produced with little regard for anything but quantity.
#42
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Wow, I didn't expect to get so much debate over this frame! I guess I never really realized that Japanese frames from the 80s-90s would fit modern parts! This is really what I want. A good steel frame that will fit modern parts to make it easier to get replacements. Possibly a touring frame. The low end Miyata from the late 70s I'm riding now could possibly fit that bill. It has braze-ons for fenders and racks. It has fenders (although the front fender has to be straightened out before I can put it back on) with the only problem being that it's high-tensile steel. Makes it a bit heavy. All the components seem to be nicer though. Needs replacement rims as well since it has chromed steel rims. Adds to the weight a bit much.
#43
Senior Member
honestly, if that guitar is your idea how the Polyvalent frame actually looks in person, you're in for a big disappointment. and like I said, it's not just the matte black color -- the quality itself of the work seems quite low, and well, mass-produced with little regard for anything but quantity.
#44
PanGalacticGargleBlaster
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I own a '07 One-Way which is essentially the same frame as the clubman, I bought it when I first got back into cycling again and before I'd developed as strong of a distaste for that top-tube as I have now. I'm not gonna part with the one-way any time soon over that fault though, its my only complaint about an otherwise really good bike.
From the pictures I've seen the Polyvalent has cleaner welds than any of the Raleigh frames i've seen. Of course I've only seen the Poly in pictures and I've seen several of the new Raleighs in person.
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#45
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YES! like a 210 or a 110.... Miyata's 'low-end' was better than many other brand's mid-range. Even the Miyata 110 and 210 have Cr-Mo main tubes.
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#46
Wrench Savant
I have been seeing where this thread goes, but I have a couple of thoughts.
The VO frames definately target a niche market. Their closest competitors are the likes of Rivendell in terms of their 650B bikes. To argue that you are tageting the same market as Soma/Surly simply becasue the price point is similar and they are both steel is not entirely correct because once you look past the steel frame, they are different bikes (including the paint). With respect to VO's 700C frame, the lines are indeed much more blurred becasue I think you could make the argument that Soma, Surly and other's offerings are indeed quite similar.
That said, it all boils down to marketing. Surly's "thing" is inexpensive, sturdy bikes which are both useful and flexible. They have really defined the market in the US. While I do not think any of their bikes would be one the top 10 list of all times for specific purposes (except the Big Dummy for which there are really on 3-5 in that entire catagory), I belive they provide very good value for the money. Soma, in certain areas, is basically Surly with Pinache'. You get lugs in most cases, and more sporty paint, mayby less flexible in use than Surly, but still quite useful in the end.
VO is selling something else. Where Surly shows hipster/street-smart 20-somethings tooling through urban environs, VO shows their bikes with wine, window boxes of flowers outside old buildings. Surly and Soma plugs alley cats, VO evows randonneering. This difference transistions to suble differences in geometry, brase-on placement and others which frankly most of use would not really notice. They are indeed filling a market where Hearse, Rivendell, and the like are above the budgets of many people.
I also disagree with the assertion that any old 80's Japansese frame provides the same thing as a fraction of the price. Where that may be true for people on this list, it is not true for the majority of people out there wanting a new (to them at least) bike. I cannot even fathom the number of people who have walked into the shop with a bike which would is more than suited for what they use it for, but want a NEW bike. They have all the excuses in the world, but most of the time, they simply want a new bike. If they want to change their drop-bar sport tour Centurion (or equivilent) to tourist bars, fenders, thumb shifters, etc., suddenly they are into the thing a few hundred dollars assuming they want the shop to do the work. You can only sell that may 1 out of 10 times, and yes I have been trying for years.
So. I do not take exception to VO's frames. While Surly, Soma, Raleigh, others offer similar bikes at a similar price, you will be getting different bikes in the end and the choice is nice to have. I might also add that VO is getting more and more local dealers. WE tend to eat the shipping costs in those instances which for a frame is more than insignificant.
The VO frames definately target a niche market. Their closest competitors are the likes of Rivendell in terms of their 650B bikes. To argue that you are tageting the same market as Soma/Surly simply becasue the price point is similar and they are both steel is not entirely correct because once you look past the steel frame, they are different bikes (including the paint). With respect to VO's 700C frame, the lines are indeed much more blurred becasue I think you could make the argument that Soma, Surly and other's offerings are indeed quite similar.
That said, it all boils down to marketing. Surly's "thing" is inexpensive, sturdy bikes which are both useful and flexible. They have really defined the market in the US. While I do not think any of their bikes would be one the top 10 list of all times for specific purposes (except the Big Dummy for which there are really on 3-5 in that entire catagory), I belive they provide very good value for the money. Soma, in certain areas, is basically Surly with Pinache'. You get lugs in most cases, and more sporty paint, mayby less flexible in use than Surly, but still quite useful in the end.
VO is selling something else. Where Surly shows hipster/street-smart 20-somethings tooling through urban environs, VO shows their bikes with wine, window boxes of flowers outside old buildings. Surly and Soma plugs alley cats, VO evows randonneering. This difference transistions to suble differences in geometry, brase-on placement and others which frankly most of use would not really notice. They are indeed filling a market where Hearse, Rivendell, and the like are above the budgets of many people.
I also disagree with the assertion that any old 80's Japansese frame provides the same thing as a fraction of the price. Where that may be true for people on this list, it is not true for the majority of people out there wanting a new (to them at least) bike. I cannot even fathom the number of people who have walked into the shop with a bike which would is more than suited for what they use it for, but want a NEW bike. They have all the excuses in the world, but most of the time, they simply want a new bike. If they want to change their drop-bar sport tour Centurion (or equivilent) to tourist bars, fenders, thumb shifters, etc., suddenly they are into the thing a few hundred dollars assuming they want the shop to do the work. You can only sell that may 1 out of 10 times, and yes I have been trying for years.
So. I do not take exception to VO's frames. While Surly, Soma, Raleigh, others offer similar bikes at a similar price, you will be getting different bikes in the end and the choice is nice to have. I might also add that VO is getting more and more local dealers. WE tend to eat the shipping costs in those instances which for a frame is more than insignificant.
#47
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Edit: forgot to mention that my father-in-law bought this bike when he was stationed in Japan around '78. As far as I can tell, this was never released to the US. Seems like a lower end frame being high tensile steel but seems to be a conundrum as it has nicer components like Shimano 60 front/600 rear derailer. Brazed lugged construction is nice though. If I'm not mistaken, this is before Miyata started making their own tubing, no?
Last edited by BassManNate; 07-24-10 at 02:07 PM.
#48
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It kind of seems to me that the compromise with a VO frame is that you're stuck with 650B. with a 27" or 700C frame you could convert it to 650B and if you get tired of it you can do it up a different way with 700C.
My modern Raleigh One-Way has all the same brazeons as the VO frame. Matter of fact you can get a pretty similar bike to the polyvalent in the new Raleigh Clubman
its got pretty much everything the VO frame does except you could (presumably) convert it to 650B or and go back to 700C when you got tired of it.
i've got nothing against velo-orange, i use a lot of their products...i just don't like this frame.
My modern Raleigh One-Way has all the same brazeons as the VO frame. Matter of fact you can get a pretty similar bike to the polyvalent in the new Raleigh Clubman
its got pretty much everything the VO frame does except you could (presumably) convert it to 650B or and go back to 700C when you got tired of it.
i've got nothing against velo-orange, i use a lot of their products...i just don't like this frame.
#50
There are also plenty of people out there that just want something new and like steel. On the C&V forum I would say a majority of people enjoy getting cheap old bikes and fixing them up but not everybody knows how or wants to. They just want a sweet vintage looking ride that is shiny and new, and are willing to pay for it.