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#4876
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 231
Bikes: S-Works Venge Dura-Ace DI2, KTM Strada 4000, Fuji Norcom Straight 1.3 (TT), Fuji Track Elite, BMC Trackmachine TR02
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Could it be that tire and/or rim manufacturing techniques and tolerances are better? I recall being able to mount a new Conti tire with only hands in the 90s and early 2000s. But in the past 10 years or more, I have to fight to get them on even using shop quality tire levers. Cursing. Once I got so pissed I took it to a local bike shop and had absolutely no shame at all paying another man to mount a tire for me.
Most recently, it took me over 30 minutes to mount the two Vittoria tires on my training wheels a couple of months ago. Hands were sore afterwards.
Most recently, it took me over 30 minutes to mount the two Vittoria tires on my training wheels a couple of months ago. Hands were sore afterwards.
#4877
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Houston
Posts: 606
Bikes: Trek Madone, Blue Triad SL, Dixie Flyer BTB
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Don't tell my wife, but I put new Vittoria Corsa Speed TLR clinchers in the clothes dryer for several minutes to warm them up before mounting. These tires are tubeless ready (but I run latex tubes) and are particularly tough to get on. Even warmed up, I need one of these to get them on.
#4878
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 31
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Don’t even talk to me about tubeless Vittoria Speed’s, I’ve been racing on the road on them for a year now.
Absolutely awesome tyres, stupidly fast and they feel amazing but damn, getting them mounted on my wheels was a complete nightmare.
Using Tyre levers on a full carbon rim had my bum hole puckering, I was sweating like I’d just come out of the sauna!! I recently had to remove the rear Tyre to replace the sealant as I’d let it go flat over the winter, didn’t have a syringe to remove the old sealant and popping the bead to pour it out like I do on the MTB is impossible....
I’m still a full noob on the track but running the new Vittoria Pista clinchers, they feel good. Weirdly I did have an inner tube blow for no apaparent reason in the car which popped the bead off the first time I used ‘em. Unnerved me a good bit but haven’t had a problem since, the tube had been sat for a long time wrapped in an old coffee bag strapped to my training bike though!
If I eventually buy something nice and aero for the front of the bike it’ll probably just be a Clincher as dealing with tubs is crap, I’d never run tubeless on the track though.
I’ve got a rear disc that I’ll eventually use on the track that’s a tub, meh......
Absolutely awesome tyres, stupidly fast and they feel amazing but damn, getting them mounted on my wheels was a complete nightmare.
Using Tyre levers on a full carbon rim had my bum hole puckering, I was sweating like I’d just come out of the sauna!! I recently had to remove the rear Tyre to replace the sealant as I’d let it go flat over the winter, didn’t have a syringe to remove the old sealant and popping the bead to pour it out like I do on the MTB is impossible....
I’m still a full noob on the track but running the new Vittoria Pista clinchers, they feel good. Weirdly I did have an inner tube blow for no apaparent reason in the car which popped the bead off the first time I used ‘em. Unnerved me a good bit but haven’t had a problem since, the tube had been sat for a long time wrapped in an old coffee bag strapped to my training bike though!
If I eventually buy something nice and aero for the front of the bike it’ll probably just be a Clincher as dealing with tubs is crap, I’d never run tubeless on the track though.
I’ve got a rear disc that I’ll eventually use on the track that’s a tub, meh......
Last edited by Monkeyfudger; 02-17-18 at 04:28 AM.
#4879
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 231
Bikes: S-Works Venge Dura-Ace DI2, KTM Strada 4000, Fuji Norcom Straight 1.3 (TT), Fuji Track Elite, BMC Trackmachine TR02
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Don’t even talk to me about tubeless Vittoria Speed’s, I’ve been racing on the road on them for a year now.
Absolutely awesome tyres, stupidly fast and they feel amazing but damn, getting them mounted on my wheels was a complete nightmare.
Using Tyre levers on a full carbon rim had my bum hole puckering, I was sweating like I’d just come out of the sauna!! I recently had to remove the rear Tyre to replace the sealant as I’d let it go flat over the winter, didn’t have a syringe to remove the old sealant and popping the bead to pour it out like I do on the MTB is impossible....
I’m still a full noob on the track but running the new Vittoria Pista clinchers, they feel good. Weirdly I did have an inner tube blow for no apaparent reason in the car which popped the bead off the first time I used ‘em. Unnerved me a good bit but haven’t had a problem since, the tube had been sat for a long time wrapped in an old coffee bag strapped to my training bike though!
If I eventually buy something nice and aero for the front of the bike it’ll probably just be a Clincher as dealing with tubs is crap, I’d never run tubeless on the track though.
I’ve got a rear disc that I’ll eventually use on the track that’s a tub, meh......
Absolutely awesome tyres, stupidly fast and they feel amazing but damn, getting them mounted on my wheels was a complete nightmare.
Using Tyre levers on a full carbon rim had my bum hole puckering, I was sweating like I’d just come out of the sauna!! I recently had to remove the rear Tyre to replace the sealant as I’d let it go flat over the winter, didn’t have a syringe to remove the old sealant and popping the bead to pour it out like I do on the MTB is impossible....
I’m still a full noob on the track but running the new Vittoria Pista clinchers, they feel good. Weirdly I did have an inner tube blow for no apaparent reason in the car which popped the bead off the first time I used ‘em. Unnerved me a good bit but haven’t had a problem since, the tube had been sat for a long time wrapped in an old coffee bag strapped to my training bike though!
If I eventually buy something nice and aero for the front of the bike it’ll probably just be a Clincher as dealing with tubs is crap, I’d never run tubeless on the track though.
I’ve got a rear disc that I’ll eventually use on the track that’s a tub, meh......
Regarding the gear, all I can say is that I thought it would be fairly straight forward to get into track --- 2 bikes later, aerobars, front and back disks, front and back tri spokes, power meters, upgraded seats, and minus enough cash to practically buy a new car, I'm finally ready! Good thing I'm not married. I'd be in the doghouse for AT LEAST a year after this madness. ;-)
#4880
Rear wheel skipping
I’ve got an issue with standing starts where my rear wheel is bouncing up and skipping as I drive over the first half lap. Looking for ideas for reasons why. I know without video it’s hard to give exacts so looking for general ideas.
One suggestion was tyre pressure as I’m running at the maximum of the tubs (215psi) which is probably excessive.
Anything else obvious?
One suggestion was tyre pressure as I’m running at the maximum of the tubs (215psi) which is probably excessive.
Anything else obvious?
#4881
Could it be that tire and/or rim manufacturing techniques and tolerances are better? I recall being able to mount a new Conti tire with only hands in the 90s and early 2000s. But in the past 10 years or more, I have to fight to get them on even using shop quality tire levers. Cursing. Once I got so pissed I took it to a local bike shop and had absolutely no shame at all paying another man to mount a tire for me.
Most recently, it took me over 30 minutes to mount the two Vittoria tires on my training wheels a couple of months ago. Hands were sore afterwards.
Most recently, it took me over 30 minutes to mount the two Vittoria tires on my training wheels a couple of months ago. Hands were sore afterwards.
Update: I searched YouTube and found this video - the first hint is basically the technique I described above.
Last edited by 700wheel; 02-17-18 at 02:54 PM.
#4882
Elitist
Thread Starter
I’ve got an issue with standing starts where my rear wheel is bouncing up and skipping as I drive over the first half lap. Looking for ideas for reasons why. I know without video it’s hard to give exacts so looking for general ideas.
One suggestion was tyre pressure as I’m running at the maximum of the tubs (215psi) which is probably excessive.
Anything else obvious?
One suggestion was tyre pressure as I’m running at the maximum of the tubs (215psi) which is probably excessive.
Anything else obvious?
I had this issue when I was riding a 57cm frame. I now ride a 61cm. I'm not suggesting that you need a new frame. Just saying that my problem started with a too-small frame.
#4883
Senior Member
Without seeing you, the first thing that comes to mind is that you are leaning too far forward up to or over the front wheel.
I had this issue when I was riding a 57cm frame. I now ride a 61cm. I'm not suggesting that you need a new frame. Just saying that my problem started with a too-small frame.
I had this issue when I was riding a 57cm frame. I now ride a 61cm. I'm not suggesting that you need a new frame. Just saying that my problem started with a too-small frame.
#4884
This could be a fair point actually. I have recently just went up to a 56-57 TT frame (only 5’8”) but it is much lower stack than my previous frame so you may be on to something there
#4887
Lapped 3x
Check this page out. Same problem with a good breakdown/explanarion. https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/198624/
#4888
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 12
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Carleton,
I think specifications for tubeless might be different than older tires, but I don't think tires have changed much from the ETRTO standards of years ago. the tight tires you may have experienced may have drifted toward the tight end of the spectrum as the wheel is at the high end of the spectrum as well, leading to a tight fitting pair.
That said after 12 years in a bike shop I rarely meet a tire I can't get on a wheel by hand.
Nate
I think specifications for tubeless might be different than older tires, but I don't think tires have changed much from the ETRTO standards of years ago. the tight tires you may have experienced may have drifted toward the tight end of the spectrum as the wheel is at the high end of the spectrum as well, leading to a tight fitting pair.
That said after 12 years in a bike shop I rarely meet a tire I can't get on a wheel by hand.
Nate
#4889
Elitist
Thread Starter
Carleton,
I think specifications for tubeless might be different than older tires, but I don't think tires have changed much from the ETRTO standards of years ago. the tight tires you may have experienced may have drifted toward the tight end of the spectrum as the wheel is at the high end of the spectrum as well, leading to a tight fitting pair.
That said after 12 years in a bike shop I rarely meet a tire I can't get on a wheel by hand.
Nate
I think specifications for tubeless might be different than older tires, but I don't think tires have changed much from the ETRTO standards of years ago. the tight tires you may have experienced may have drifted toward the tight end of the spectrum as the wheel is at the high end of the spectrum as well, leading to a tight fitting pair.
That said after 12 years in a bike shop I rarely meet a tire I can't get on a wheel by hand.
Nate
So, how do you deal with, say, new Conti GP4000 or a Conti Trainer Tire? Any special tricks? or just brute force with super thumbs?
#4890
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 114
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Contis and WTBs are almost always tight. The more of the bead you can get in to the rim channel the better they'll go over the rim. It won't be easy, though. Gluing Conti tubs are the WORST.
#4891
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 12
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Carleton,
Don't use your thumbs, use the ridge of the pads of your knuckles to roll the tire on. For me it is like rolling my fingers into a fist around the tire. i use that ridge to grip the tire and roll the tire on.
All of the above only works if you get one bead on, and make sure the tube (slightly inflated) is centered over the rim, not half in half out. When you go to put the second bead on you have to start at the valve and work away from the valve. The valve area is the tightest area on the wheel.
Don't use your thumbs, use the ridge of the pads of your knuckles to roll the tire on. For me it is like rolling my fingers into a fist around the tire. i use that ridge to grip the tire and roll the tire on.
All of the above only works if you get one bead on, and make sure the tube (slightly inflated) is centered over the rim, not half in half out. When you go to put the second bead on you have to start at the valve and work away from the valve. The valve area is the tightest area on the wheel.
#4892
Senior Member
#4893
Elitist
Thread Starter
Carleton,
Don't use your thumbs, use the ridge of the pads of your knuckles to roll the tire on. For me it is like rolling my fingers into a fist around the tire. i use that ridge to grip the tire and roll the tire on.
All of the above only works if you get one bead on, and make sure the tube (slightly inflated) is centered over the rim, not half in half out. When you go to put the second bead on you have to start at the valve and work away from the valve. The valve area is the tightest area on the wheel.
Don't use your thumbs, use the ridge of the pads of your knuckles to roll the tire on. For me it is like rolling my fingers into a fist around the tire. i use that ridge to grip the tire and roll the tire on.
All of the above only works if you get one bead on, and make sure the tube (slightly inflated) is centered over the rim, not half in half out. When you go to put the second bead on you have to start at the valve and work away from the valve. The valve area is the tightest area on the wheel.
I'm also a larger cyclist, and I used to deal with the same issue even when using really high pressures in the tires. The solution is a wider rim. I've been using these as training wheels for my track bike and road bike and it really has been a game changer. I can run a 23 or 25 mm tire at 100psi (home track is bumpy abd lower pressure really smooths it out a bit) and they feel absolutely rock solid. No flex whatsoever. Kinlin XR31T Tubeless Ready Rim - $74.95
The setup that I felt it on was:
- Velocity Deep-V tubular rim.
- Conti Sprinter tires that were on their 2nd season.
- 140PSI.
- 32/36 spoke front/rear Dura Ace hubs
#4894
Senior Member
Thanks!
I've only felt that feeling when using a set of tubulars that had been in used for a lot of miles. I could push the tires over and see the base tape staying down on the rim but the tire would move some. It was a an almost-fishtail type feeling when diving into a turn.
The setup that I felt it on was:
- Velocity Deep-V tubular rim.
- Conti Sprinter tires that were on their 2nd season.
- 140PSI.
- 32/36 spoke front/rear Dura Ace hubs
I've only felt that feeling when using a set of tubulars that had been in used for a lot of miles. I could push the tires over and see the base tape staying down on the rim but the tire would move some. It was a an almost-fishtail type feeling when diving into a turn.
The setup that I felt it on was:
- Velocity Deep-V tubular rim.
- Conti Sprinter tires that were on their 2nd season.
- 140PSI.
- 32/36 spoke front/rear Dura Ace hubs
#4895
man at DLV, it feels weird taking turns 3-4 at 35ish mph anyway.
#4896
Elitist
Thread Starter
#4897
hmm, lemme see - according to my data, i hit 67.5 kph at some point during the PRS omnium in July
it also feels like the radius is variable, and like it's shortest right in the middle of turns 3 and 4, so you really dip down and change direction hard and fast.
it also feels like the radius is variable, and like it's shortest right in the middle of turns 3 and 4, so you really dip down and change direction hard and fast.
#4898
Lapped 3x
#4899
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3
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#4900
Hey guys, want to toss some randoms question here, I wonder.
What is your food supplements? this question probably belonged to Training/Nutrition forum but want to ask here because I been to local Track Velodrome recently.
I been experiments with Creatine, BCAAs (Xtend) and Whey Proteins atm. I never thought about food supplements like before... its give me decent result.
What is your food supplements? this question probably belonged to Training/Nutrition forum but want to ask here because I been to local Track Velodrome recently.
I been experiments with Creatine, BCAAs (Xtend) and Whey Proteins atm. I never thought about food supplements like before... its give me decent result.