Decoding of Eddy Merckx frames
03-09-21, 07:36 AM
#427
aka: Dr. Cannondale
You are The Master, I am but a Humble Student...
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03-09-21, 10:40 AM
#428
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Hello,
First of all congratulation for the fantastic job you are doing. I own a signature Merckx bike with the following markings on the BB Left : 50. Right : E272
Please can you tell me the production year of this bike. Sorry as new participant on the forum I can't join pictures.Thanks and best regards.
First of all congratulation for the fantastic job you are doing. I own a signature Merckx bike with the following markings on the BB Left : 50. Right : E272
Please can you tell me the production year of this bike. Sorry as new participant on the forum I can't join pictures.Thanks and best regards.
03-09-21, 11:12 AM
#429
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Hello,
First of all congratulation for the fantastic job you are doing. I own a signature Merckx bike with the following markings on the BB Left : B 50. Right : E272
Please can you tell me the production year of this bike. Sorry as new participant on the forum I can't join pictures.Thanks Jacek and best regards.
First of all congratulation for the fantastic job you are doing. I own a signature Merckx bike with the following markings on the BB Left : B 50. Right : E272
Please can you tell me the production year of this bike. Sorry as new participant on the forum I can't join pictures.Thanks Jacek and best regards.
03-09-21, 02:20 PM
#430
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Hey, I'm hoping someone can give me insight into whether a Merckx on eBay is legit. I've been googling a little and have no reason to question its authenticity, but I don't know much/anything at all! There's no photo of the bb shell so I can't compare it against the tables I've found online. I've messaged the seller and am waiting to hear back if they can send me a photo.
I can't post a link yet, but it's ebay dot com /itm/Eddy-Merckx-Corsa-Extra-SLX-Campagnolo-Chorus-Triple/284144951763
And yes, I know the price is high for what it is, but it's for charity, which seems like a win/win: get cute bike, support kids. Thanks in advance!
I can't post a link yet, but it's ebay dot com /itm/Eddy-Merckx-Corsa-Extra-SLX-Campagnolo-Chorus-Triple/284144951763
And yes, I know the price is high for what it is, but it's for charity, which seems like a win/win: get cute bike, support kids. Thanks in advance!
03-10-21, 12:01 AM
#432
B50. E272 - frame from early 1981, mistake in seat tube height marking - should be only 0 (employee B had a birthday the day before - unconfirmed theory)
P9X D5868 - Corsa Extra (road racing geometry) from early 1993
P9X D5868 - Corsa Extra (road racing geometry) from early 1993
03-10-21, 02:57 PM
#433
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Many thanks. Hope that happy evening the day before didn't affect the quality of his work :-)
03-12-21, 10:05 AM
#436
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Carbondale (nicer than it sounds), Colorado
Posts: 98
Bikes: American- Pristine Wizard, Della Santa, Mclean, Italian, 50's-83, 4 English 1949-1970, Riding bikes-Trek 760, SOMA Triple Cross gravel bike, SOMA SAGA DC touring bike, Pivot Les Fat for long distance bikepacking. One modern Carbon bike.
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Two Decals, Interpretation
Hello- there is a decal/transfer/sticker on the seat tube of my EM Corsa Extra that reads "fietsen erleyses terafene." I ran it through a translator, but that wasn't a ton of help- "cycling erleyses terafene." Can you please tell me its significance? Could it be a local bike shop?
The second one says "Original Painting, Eddy Merck, Zinc Phosphate, Anti Corrosion Treatment." Would this have been an extra cost / an extra option, or was this decal applied to all EM's made around 1998? I've not seen either decal before this frame. Side note, I bought the frame from a seller in Italy. Thank you.
The second one says "Original Painting, Eddy Merck, Zinc Phosphate, Anti Corrosion Treatment." Would this have been an extra cost / an extra option, or was this decal applied to all EM's made around 1998? I've not seen either decal before this frame. Side note, I bought the frame from a seller in Italy. Thank you.
03-12-21, 02:40 PM
#437
If you change "terafene" to "teralfene" you give me some chance - it's a town close to the Brussels - Ghent route.
The sticker "Original Painting..." was introduced in 1996 and used until the end of steel frame production (sometimes a shortened version was used when repainting the frames).
The sticker "Original Painting..." was introduced in 1996 and used until the end of steel frame production (sometimes a shortened version was used when repainting the frames).
03-12-21, 03:22 PM
#438
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Carbondale (nicer than it sounds), Colorado
Posts: 98
Bikes: American- Pristine Wizard, Della Santa, Mclean, Italian, 50's-83, 4 English 1949-1970, Riding bikes-Trek 760, SOMA Triple Cross gravel bike, SOMA SAGA DC touring bike, Pivot Les Fat for long distance bikepacking. One modern Carbon bike.
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Yes, you are correct (as always). See pic.
03-15-21, 09:02 AM
#440
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Carbondale (nicer than it sounds), Colorado
Posts: 98
Bikes: American- Pristine Wizard, Della Santa, Mclean, Italian, 50's-83, 4 English 1949-1970, Riding bikes-Trek 760, SOMA Triple Cross gravel bike, SOMA SAGA DC touring bike, Pivot Les Fat for long distance bikepacking. One modern Carbon bike.
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Another one..."A" (only) stamped on the drive side, Campagnolo dropouts, repaint. Based on my education from this site, somewhat early in the Z production group, so 1985? Thank you!
Last edited by M1T; 03-15-21 at 10:59 AM.
03-15-21, 11:33 AM
#441
A Z1154 End of 1984
Warning! not sure what it is: late Professional or Pro (753 or SLX) !
Precise research advisable...
...i.e. examination of the inside of the tubes visible through the BB cover and steering tube
...and more photos in general
Warning! not sure what it is: late Professional or Pro (753 or SLX) !
Precise research advisable...
...i.e. examination of the inside of the tubes visible through the BB cover and steering tube
...and more photos in general
03-15-21, 01:22 PM
#442
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Carbondale (nicer than it sounds), Colorado
Posts: 98
Bikes: American- Pristine Wizard, Della Santa, Mclean, Italian, 50's-83, 4 English 1949-1970, Riding bikes-Trek 760, SOMA Triple Cross gravel bike, SOMA SAGA DC touring bike, Pivot Les Fat for long distance bikepacking. One modern Carbon bike.
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Hello- No internal ribs, and 2 more photo's. And another question. Would a 753 Pro be more valuable or sought after than a SLX "Professional?" This is a repainted frame BTW.
Last edited by M1T; 03-15-21 at 05:54 PM. Reason: adding info to the post
03-18-21, 10:59 AM
#444
Z 1701 info
Hello. I recently acquired “Z 1701” from the original owner. He raced it 9/84 at a sanctioned race here in CT. He knows he bought it before that race, he believes it was the spring of 1984.
The bike was purchased at Buzz Cycles in old Geenwich, CT.
Left side is “5 P”, right side “Z 1701”.
I know the dates the original owner mentioned don’t line up with other Z run dates mentioned here. I wonder if purchase dates on some “Z” frames are a good bit later than build dates.
My seller was the original owner and is pretty certain he bought it in the spring of 1984 because he has the flyer from that race and he was in that race with his Merckx only one year.
It has under bb cables, sloping crown and 84 stamped cranks and rd.
He and his brother both bought Merckx’s and groupsets at the same time from Buzz’s.
The bike sat for the last 35+ years, I restored it.
The bike was purchased at Buzz Cycles in old Geenwich, CT.
Left side is “5 P”, right side “Z 1701”.
I know the dates the original owner mentioned don’t line up with other Z run dates mentioned here. I wonder if purchase dates on some “Z” frames are a good bit later than build dates.
My seller was the original owner and is pretty certain he bought it in the spring of 1984 because he has the flyer from that race and he was in that race with his Merckx only one year.
It has under bb cables, sloping crown and 84 stamped cranks and rd.
He and his brother both bought Merckx’s and groupsets at the same time from Buzz’s.
The bike sat for the last 35+ years, I restored it.
Likes For Ct03911:
03-19-21, 12:38 AM
#445
This is a sensational surprise to me, but... a few small details need to be clarified.
If the Z1701 was bought in the US Spring 1984 then it must have been built at least 2 months earlier - this means a production date of March 1984 at best.
The frames built for Team Panasonic for the 1986 season are known to be Z45xx - they could have been built as early as September 1985.
This means that in a period of 1,5 years about 2800 frames were built, so the average capacity in this period is less than 1900 frames per year.
In his statements in 1989 Merckx emphasized that from 1982 onwards the number of frames built increased steadily (year on year).
By the time the Z1710 was built, about 13500 frames had left the EMC factory - if it had been built in spring 1984, the average throughput over the 4 years of production (from spring 1980 to spring 1984) would have been about 3400 units per year.
A drop from 3400 to 1900 would have been an easily seen disaster.
If the Z1701 had been built in the spring, the pro teams would have used the Pro SLX or Pro 753 (and they were already in production, their designations are often earlier than the Z1701) as early as the 1984 season - yet they were not used until the middle of the 1985 season (a year later)
The only thing that would help is a proof of purchase with date and serial number.
Starting in September 1984 on this bike (if it was bought "the day before" it would have been built in July 1984 at the latest anyway) changes our numbers to 3000 and 2400 - still doesn't look good and doesn't solve the Team Pro SLX/753 problem.
My dating (would be December 1984) gives numbers 2800 and 3600 and fits the Pro SLX/753 problem - but is not supported by any document....
Dating 1980-1984 is a nightmare
If the Z1701 was bought in the US Spring 1984 then it must have been built at least 2 months earlier - this means a production date of March 1984 at best.
The frames built for Team Panasonic for the 1986 season are known to be Z45xx - they could have been built as early as September 1985.
This means that in a period of 1,5 years about 2800 frames were built, so the average capacity in this period is less than 1900 frames per year.
In his statements in 1989 Merckx emphasized that from 1982 onwards the number of frames built increased steadily (year on year).
By the time the Z1710 was built, about 13500 frames had left the EMC factory - if it had been built in spring 1984, the average throughput over the 4 years of production (from spring 1980 to spring 1984) would have been about 3400 units per year.
A drop from 3400 to 1900 would have been an easily seen disaster.
If the Z1701 had been built in the spring, the pro teams would have used the Pro SLX or Pro 753 (and they were already in production, their designations are often earlier than the Z1701) as early as the 1984 season - yet they were not used until the middle of the 1985 season (a year later)
The only thing that would help is a proof of purchase with date and serial number.
Starting in September 1984 on this bike (if it was bought "the day before" it would have been built in July 1984 at the latest anyway) changes our numbers to 3000 and 2400 - still doesn't look good and doesn't solve the Team Pro SLX/753 problem.
My dating (would be December 1984) gives numbers 2800 and 3600 and fits the Pro SLX/753 problem - but is not supported by any document....
Dating 1980-1984 is a nightmare
03-19-21, 07:37 AM
#446
aka: Dr. Cannondale
Z566 (see pic below) has been determined to be Pro SLX. Originally thought to have been born in Q3 1984, it will be interesting to see if that date gets pushed back somewhat...
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03-19-21, 08:31 AM
#447
Cyclesmakaron aka Jacek - I am so appreciative of the work you have done. I reached out again the the recent seller of Z 1701 for more definitive information.
He is in the process of scanning boxes of photos and hopes one will be in there of the bike with a date on it.
He was once again (third time on this now) quite certain he rode the bike in the scanned photo of that race in 9/84. He kept the flyer all these years and while we all know memories can fade, it is clearly his strong belief he rode the Merckx at that race.
He also told me he was going to call his brother this weekend who bought a matching Merckx from the same shop. They ordered the frames and group sets together from Buzz’s. It has been some time since they spoke. He hopes his brother can provide more information.
I’m hoping his brother might sell me that bike too.
I know your research has been very exacting. I only offer what I know and hope to provide more.
He is in the process of scanning boxes of photos and hopes one will be in there of the bike with a date on it.
He was once again (third time on this now) quite certain he rode the bike in the scanned photo of that race in 9/84. He kept the flyer all these years and while we all know memories can fade, it is clearly his strong belief he rode the Merckx at that race.
He also told me he was going to call his brother this weekend who bought a matching Merckx from the same shop. They ordered the frames and group sets together from Buzz’s. It has been some time since they spoke. He hopes his brother can provide more information.
I’m hoping his brother might sell me that bike too.
I know your research has been very exacting. I only offer what I know and hope to provide more.
03-19-21, 01:02 PM
#448
I'm very interested in more information and don't mind a little revolution in EMC dating
Assuming that Z1701 was built in March 1984 the construction of Z566 would have to be postponed to the end of 1983... that is before SLX went into production.
In this situation introduction of SLX to team frames only in mid 1985 would be completely incomprehensible...
Assuming that Z1701 was built in March 1984 the construction of Z566 would have to be postponed to the end of 1983... that is before SLX went into production.
In this situation introduction of SLX to team frames only in mid 1985 would be completely incomprehensible...
03-19-21, 02:14 PM
#449
The original owner of Z 1701 sent me a photo he has kept of himself on the bike at the 9/84 race. The kicker is, it’s not dated. He says it is that race and he only rode that race once.
he is checking with his brother for more supporting info this weekend.
Just remember, I have no opinion on this. If it’s and 84 or 85 it’s a cool bike.
I’m passing along what I learn.
He even remembers the announcer of the race that day. The gent was well know but that seems to me to be a lot of recall.
he is checking with his brother for more supporting info this weekend.
Just remember, I have no opinion on this. If it’s and 84 or 85 it’s a cool bike.
I’m passing along what I learn.
He even remembers the announcer of the race that day. The gent was well know but that seems to me to be a lot of recall.
03-20-21, 12:10 AM
#450
Awesome ! I look forward to the rest of the information !
The bike is definitely cool, but I have quite a puzzle to solve
Reconciling SLX Z566 from 1983 with Z1701 from spring 1984 and Panasonic Z45xx from fall 1985 is impossible.... I have to look somewhere else
...and it promised to be a quiet weekend...
The bike is definitely cool, but I have quite a puzzle to solve
Reconciling SLX Z566 from 1983 with Z1701 from spring 1984 and Panasonic Z45xx from fall 1985 is impossible.... I have to look somewhere else
...and it promised to be a quiet weekend...
