Post your Centurion Ironman.. For the love of 80s paint jobs!
03-03-18, 09:47 AM
#4376
Senior Member
I have one of these if you need to use it. It works. I used it to get a crankarm off of the IM I thought was toast.p
Bikeman Bicycle Research Crank Arm Thread Chaser, TC-8
The company also has a newer design, but I don't have one of those.
Thread Chaser For Crank Arm Dust Caps
Bikeman Bicycle Research Crank Arm Thread Chaser, TC-8
The company also has a newer design, but I don't have one of those.
Thread Chaser For Crank Arm Dust Caps
03-03-18, 05:05 PM
#4377
Senior Member
'88 Centurion Carbon Ironman
Well I rode my first ride on the Carbon Ironman. I had some ancient 23 armadillo (O rings)hard as rock tires on there but the carbon rode fine. Fortunately I have other Ironman to set up identically to, which made for an easy transition. So basically nothing to report about. Although carbon tubes with aluminum lugs it didn't seem to weigh or "feel" lighter. Well to some degree I was surprised how I didn't need to adjust anything on the fly but, once again I just set it up like my other Ironman bikes so maybe I shouldn't have been too surprised.
It accelerates well, climbs well, handles the relatively smooth road well. I would say the handling is on par with my former '88 Master and current 89 Master. My 87 Miami Vice Expert is a different animal, as it's more solid and stable.
I rode only 20 miles for my second outside ride of the year. I actually rode with the guy that bought my show room condition '88. Imagine the horror when he pulled the bike that was laying down, out of the bed of his pick up and it had a lock wrapped around the Top Tube! Oh well its his bike and he rode very well. He said he liked my "black bike". I think we should call the the Carbon Ironman the "Midnight Rider".
I didn't experience any shimmy,shaking, gyro wonkyness that RT experienced from the front fork. I don't know maybe I'm not the monster masher he is. But the true test will be the bone shaking chip seal road on my old route that I've been avoiding since they messed it up.
All in all just another great riding Ironman but, it's the one to have from '88 so there's that...
Later Irongents.
It accelerates well, climbs well, handles the relatively smooth road well. I would say the handling is on par with my former '88 Master and current 89 Master. My 87 Miami Vice Expert is a different animal, as it's more solid and stable.
I rode only 20 miles for my second outside ride of the year. I actually rode with the guy that bought my show room condition '88. Imagine the horror when he pulled the bike that was laying down, out of the bed of his pick up and it had a lock wrapped around the Top Tube! Oh well its his bike and he rode very well. He said he liked my "black bike". I think we should call the the Carbon Ironman the "Midnight Rider".
I didn't experience any shimmy,shaking, gyro wonkyness that RT experienced from the front fork. I don't know maybe I'm not the monster masher he is. But the true test will be the bone shaking chip seal road on my old route that I've been avoiding since they messed it up.
All in all just another great riding Ironman but, it's the one to have from '88 so there's that...
Later Irongents.
03-04-18, 07:16 AM
#4379
Senior Member
More miles needed for better ride evaluation.
But Comparing; Same satisfaction with handling, comfort, acceleration, smiles per miles. It's the Ironman conundrum, agile yet stable.
Contrasting; Honestly I thought it would be easy to contrast, since all my other Ironman are steel, but I guess I need more miles outdoors.
03-04-18, 08:15 AM
#4380
Senior Member
Yesterday when I rode on my Carbon Ironman for the first time I actually rode with the guy who bought my 88 yellow fade master. We rode at 7am as he had a schedule and on Saturdays I don't well except honey dos. Anyways, he shows up and I put on my helmet and he says uh I don't have a helmet. I said well no problem I won't wear mine so you won't feel out of place. Then he asked do I always wear a helmet, I answered generally yes, but it's point of contention on this bike forums I'm on. Btw I didn't explain beyond that. Then later as we're riding, I'm not kidding he asked me about listening to music with ear buds, then later about chain lube.
All points of contention unless you stay off BF.
Which brings me to the point of now that the "time change" is coming and spring is around the corner I'll finally be able to ride outdoors and possibly stay off foo threads.
All points of contention unless you stay off BF.Which brings me to the point of now that the "time change" is coming and spring is around the corner I'll finally be able to ride outdoors and possibly stay off foo threads.
Last edited by texaspandj; 03-04-18 at 08:51 AM.
03-04-18, 06:08 PM
#4381
Senior Member
I just finished riding all my bikes for a comparison. I rode each, one 3 mile loop. Here's how it went.
I started with my 89 and worked down to the 86.
The 89 MASTER was light and quick. No doubt in my mind that the 89 is quicker handling. Having had a 89 expert and master I believe the Master is quicker and Lighter. When you step on it, it goes. I liken it to a sports car.
The 88 CARBON felt just like the 89 in most respects not as quick handling, but light and good on the acceleration. I liken it to a sports sedan.
The 87 EXPERT was noticebly heavier, perhaps from mounting after dismounting the carbon. It is the most stable, not nearly as quick as the 89. It you just want to go straight that's your Ironman. I liken it to a pickup truck.
The 86 PRE-MASTER is very comfortable, it's agile yet stable. Not as quick as the 89 but quick enough, and not as stable as the 87 but stable enough. It's lighter than the 87 expert. I liken it to a souped up Cadillac.
Well,there you have it, not that y'all cared, but now that you know get one that suits your needs. Which brings me to my never ending question, on a daily basis which Ironman do I choose to ride. Well,this season I'm gonna race the 89 so I'll be doing the majority of my riding on it. However, I sure wouldn't mind racing that 88 Carbon. For kicks and attention I could race the 87 Miami Vice. And of course for nostalgic reasons I could bring out the 86.
A couple questions if you have an expert and master Ironman do you detect a weight difference? And if you have multiple bikes any brand , do you have a favorite?
Later Irongents.
I started with my 89 and worked down to the 86.
The 89 MASTER was light and quick. No doubt in my mind that the 89 is quicker handling. Having had a 89 expert and master I believe the Master is quicker and Lighter. When you step on it, it goes. I liken it to a sports car.
The 88 CARBON felt just like the 89 in most respects not as quick handling, but light and good on the acceleration. I liken it to a sports sedan.
The 87 EXPERT was noticebly heavier, perhaps from mounting after dismounting the carbon. It is the most stable, not nearly as quick as the 89. It you just want to go straight that's your Ironman. I liken it to a pickup truck.
The 86 PRE-MASTER is very comfortable, it's agile yet stable. Not as quick as the 89 but quick enough, and not as stable as the 87 but stable enough. It's lighter than the 87 expert. I liken it to a souped up Cadillac.
Well,there you have it, not that y'all cared, but now that you know get one that suits your needs. Which brings me to my never ending question, on a daily basis which Ironman do I choose to ride. Well,this season I'm gonna race the 89 so I'll be doing the majority of my riding on it. However, I sure wouldn't mind racing that 88 Carbon. For kicks and attention I could race the 87 Miami Vice. And of course for nostalgic reasons I could bring out the 86.
A couple questions if you have an expert and master Ironman do you detect a weight difference? And if you have multiple bikes any brand , do you have a favorite?
Later Irongents.
Last edited by texaspandj; 03-04-18 at 06:16 PM.
03-04-18, 06:50 PM
#4382
Somewhat slow older guy
Just to answer one of your questions- I had an '89 Black Dog Expert, and it always felt heavier than my '88 Expert. I moved it on because of that.
03-04-18, 09:48 PM
#4383
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,767
Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road
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I'm going to tune up my son's 89 Expert (masterized with 600) and make it fit me like my MV and see how it goes. The 89 is shorter in seat tube but a tad longer in TT.
03-04-18, 09:52 PM
#4384
Senior Member
Well they're both experts so they may ride the same especially if the 89 Expert is a frame date 88. Try comparing it to a Master.
03-05-18, 11:43 AM
#4385
Senior Member
I'm curious why the bottom bracket shell says 57.7x64.3
FWIW the Shimano aero seatpost says 25.0
Last edited by texaspandj; 03-05-18 at 11:49 AM.
03-05-18, 12:00 PM
#4386
Me duelen las nalgas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,513
Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel
Liked 2,807 Times
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1,803 Posts
Yesterday when I rode on my Carbon Ironman for the first time I actually rode with the guy who bought my 88 yellow fade master... Then he asked do I always wear a helmet, I answered generally yes, but it's point of contention on this bike forums I'm on. Btw I didn't explain beyond that. Then later as we're riding, I'm not kidding he asked me about listening to music with ear buds, then later about chain lube. All points of contention unless you stay off BF...
All points of contention unless you stay off BF...
03-05-18, 06:38 PM
#4387
Banned.
I'm a little new to this model. I've been interested in purchasing one and have been going over all the local CL offerings from time to time. I'm in no rush and I'm willing to wait until the right deal comes along. I'm also capable wrenching a not so perfect bike back to life. Also, it doesn't have to be period correct.
With that said...
What is the hierarchy of the models that were offered? What years might be more desirable than others? Are they any model/years that should be avoided?
With that said...
What is the hierarchy of the models that were offered? What years might be more desirable than others? Are they any model/years that should be avoided?
03-05-18, 07:17 PM
#4388
Banned.
I like TP&J's ride comparisons. Not knowing the current state of tension on the wheels of each, I'll opine that 50% of the report depends on the wheelset.
1985: I always found the original to be the steadiest model. That means less twitchy. It rode a bit more agile than the Turbo, and while I'd like to say it was the same as the Comp TA, my Comp TA was a 58cm and you simply can't compare two different sizes, IMHO. I was not a fan of the rims, but I was a fan of the hubs. In optimum tune (including trued and tensioned wheels), it was a very nice bike. I built one with 9sp 105, and it was better than the LeMans RS, and for the time period. a lot of bike for the money. Still is, but the market has brought other models to the game. I'd call it "stodgy" compared to other Ironman models, but by no means "stodgy" compared to other bikes. I do know a 6'1" 245-lb former NCAA tailback (who now works for the Patriots) rode one in many a crit in SC. It took his power on, and the handling in crits never let him down. I even think he named it. To me, that exemplifies the quality of the frame. This guy could put out serious power, and the bike ate it up.
1986: To me, the Ironman I like was born with these graphics, indexed 600, and those awesome coppery wheels. They seemed significantly lighter and the bike just worked. It also, again, IMHO, raced better. I have no idea why, maybe the color. Plenty of guys were "getting up on it" on '86 models, and I on my Trek 510 watched them walk away.... It probably would be the model I'd ride across the US, if I had to choose (as did BF member quotient (Alan Quo)). It just seemed a good climber and steady in a pace line; an all-around really good bike. I still see a couple locally.
1987: While a close friend bought the Master, a lot of folks were buying the Expert due to the "new 105." My opinion is, if Centurion had offered it in a second color, the Expert would have sold another 50% more models. Not everyone could get their head around the Miami Vice scheme. I've probably seen more of "the Vice" raced than any other Ironman. They carry a cool factor that is simply not approached by a lot of bikes, Ironman or not.
1988 steel: My 100-mile bike, hands down. Thunder Ridge, Dairyland Dare, (each twice on this bike). You dial it in, and you're done. Hats off to the CTL-370 rims on those bikes. Tension those, put decent tires on them, and the bike is on par with my DeRosa and Merckx Corsa Extra. Build any of those 3 with the same kit, and blindfolded, 99.9% of riders could not tell a difference.
1988 carbon: Like TP&J, I found "not a lot" of difference in 6400 trim, doubt the 7400 OEM was that much different. The frame was ahead of the game, the fork was behind, and unless you decide to soup it up, you'll never know, other than a weight difference. Any lack of agility or precision, is, in my opinion, due to the wheel tension and fork. With a Slice CF fork and Ultegra 9-sp, the bike was smoother due to some flex, but no more agile than the steel. Looking back, I'm simply not sure the Slice CF fork of that era was any better than the Tange steel fork on the Ironman and the PDG Paramounts.
Sidebar: In 1989, the Asian market Carbon-R fixed the fork issue, and mine arrived to me in OEM 6400 trim. I loved it, but when I set it up with 5600, it easily competed with my friends' early-teen Tarmacs and those generic CAAD10's and Roubaix's. It easily PR'd me up Thunder Ridge, locking in 10mph, which is notable if you've done that ride. Then, when I went DA 9000 on it, holy Spiderman, Mary Jane. It does and will continue to (easily) hold it's own with anything my buds want to roll on. It is 3-5% better on long rides than my Wraith was, but probably 5% worse for crits. Stiffness is everything in crits. And it's 25+ years older.
1989: I expected these to be the best Ironman years, and they are, if you consider the frame. A tad quicker, in my opinion, and experience, than the rest of the field, and seemingly a bit more precise. Equal to any task, but as much as I really like Suntour GPX, that BB/Crankset and those hubs were noticeably heavier. If Superbe Pro had been used, we'd easily be talking about how the Expert was better than the Master (6400).
I will caveat this post by saying I rode only about 30% of these in OEM trim. Much of my subjective reporting here is based on what they did once I hot-rodded them to modern stuff, dropped the weight significantly, and went with livelier wheels in almost every situation.
If I had my druthers, I'd run my '89 Carbon-R with some perfect replica of the Nitto B115 in carbon, a carbon seatpost, and stick with the DA 9000. The Bontrager RXL's on it are 23mm wide, which enables 25mm tires, but not 28's. The bike is wonderful. If I fell into money, my 1988 Purple Haze would get the same treatment, and I think I'd be in Ironman bliss, but due to force of fact, not ignorance.
Also, "Midnight Rider" works for me on the Ironman Carbon. If Paul Revere had had one, history would be different.....
1985: I always found the original to be the steadiest model. That means less twitchy. It rode a bit more agile than the Turbo, and while I'd like to say it was the same as the Comp TA, my Comp TA was a 58cm and you simply can't compare two different sizes, IMHO. I was not a fan of the rims, but I was a fan of the hubs. In optimum tune (including trued and tensioned wheels), it was a very nice bike. I built one with 9sp 105, and it was better than the LeMans RS, and for the time period. a lot of bike for the money. Still is, but the market has brought other models to the game. I'd call it "stodgy" compared to other Ironman models, but by no means "stodgy" compared to other bikes. I do know a 6'1" 245-lb former NCAA tailback (who now works for the Patriots) rode one in many a crit in SC. It took his power on, and the handling in crits never let him down. I even think he named it. To me, that exemplifies the quality of the frame. This guy could put out serious power, and the bike ate it up.
1986: To me, the Ironman I like was born with these graphics, indexed 600, and those awesome coppery wheels. They seemed significantly lighter and the bike just worked. It also, again, IMHO, raced better. I have no idea why, maybe the color. Plenty of guys were "getting up on it" on '86 models, and I on my Trek 510 watched them walk away.... It probably would be the model I'd ride across the US, if I had to choose (as did BF member quotient (Alan Quo)). It just seemed a good climber and steady in a pace line; an all-around really good bike. I still see a couple locally.
1987: While a close friend bought the Master, a lot of folks were buying the Expert due to the "new 105." My opinion is, if Centurion had offered it in a second color, the Expert would have sold another 50% more models. Not everyone could get their head around the Miami Vice scheme. I've probably seen more of "the Vice" raced than any other Ironman. They carry a cool factor that is simply not approached by a lot of bikes, Ironman or not.
1988 steel: My 100-mile bike, hands down. Thunder Ridge, Dairyland Dare, (each twice on this bike). You dial it in, and you're done. Hats off to the CTL-370 rims on those bikes. Tension those, put decent tires on them, and the bike is on par with my DeRosa and Merckx Corsa Extra. Build any of those 3 with the same kit, and blindfolded, 99.9% of riders could not tell a difference.
1988 carbon: Like TP&J, I found "not a lot" of difference in 6400 trim, doubt the 7400 OEM was that much different. The frame was ahead of the game, the fork was behind, and unless you decide to soup it up, you'll never know, other than a weight difference. Any lack of agility or precision, is, in my opinion, due to the wheel tension and fork. With a Slice CF fork and Ultegra 9-sp, the bike was smoother due to some flex, but no more agile than the steel. Looking back, I'm simply not sure the Slice CF fork of that era was any better than the Tange steel fork on the Ironman and the PDG Paramounts.
Sidebar: In 1989, the Asian market Carbon-R fixed the fork issue, and mine arrived to me in OEM 6400 trim. I loved it, but when I set it up with 5600, it easily competed with my friends' early-teen Tarmacs and those generic CAAD10's and Roubaix's. It easily PR'd me up Thunder Ridge, locking in 10mph, which is notable if you've done that ride. Then, when I went DA 9000 on it, holy Spiderman, Mary Jane. It does and will continue to (easily) hold it's own with anything my buds want to roll on. It is 3-5% better on long rides than my Wraith was, but probably 5% worse for crits. Stiffness is everything in crits. And it's 25+ years older.
1989: I expected these to be the best Ironman years, and they are, if you consider the frame. A tad quicker, in my opinion, and experience, than the rest of the field, and seemingly a bit more precise. Equal to any task, but as much as I really like Suntour GPX, that BB/Crankset and those hubs were noticeably heavier. If Superbe Pro had been used, we'd easily be talking about how the Expert was better than the Master (6400).
I will caveat this post by saying I rode only about 30% of these in OEM trim. Much of my subjective reporting here is based on what they did once I hot-rodded them to modern stuff, dropped the weight significantly, and went with livelier wheels in almost every situation.
If I had my druthers, I'd run my '89 Carbon-R with some perfect replica of the Nitto B115 in carbon, a carbon seatpost, and stick with the DA 9000. The Bontrager RXL's on it are 23mm wide, which enables 25mm tires, but not 28's. The bike is wonderful. If I fell into money, my 1988 Purple Haze would get the same treatment, and I think I'd be in Ironman bliss, but due to force of fact, not ignorance.
Also, "Midnight Rider" works for me on the Ironman Carbon. If Paul Revere had had one, history would be different.....
Last edited by RobbieTunes; 03-05-18 at 07:32 PM.
03-05-18, 07:30 PM
#4389
Banned.
I picked up this Expert off Craigslist this evening. The seller aired up the tires, I took it for a little spin up the road, everything worked to my satisfaction (even though it needs some work and adjustments), I made an offer which was accepted, so I loaded it up and brought it home. This is the "as purchased" pic. Mostly original components except for the saddle, pedals, and handlebar/stem. It should clean up pretty well.
For the serial number discussion: the serial number on this is N9E6XXX
For the serial number discussion: the serial number on this is N9E6XXX
03-05-18, 08:01 PM
#4390
Senior Member
Those are some great ride reports from RT and TP&J. I would suggest TP&J do his rides again, but in reverse order. See if the results are the same.
Last edited by seypat; 03-05-18 at 08:42 PM.
03-05-18, 08:03 PM
#4391
Senior Member
I picked up this Expert off Craigslist this evening. The seller aired up the tires, I took it for a little spin up the road, everything worked to my satisfaction (even though it needs some work and adjustments), I made an offer which was accepted, so I loaded it up and brought it home. This is the "as purchased" pic. Mostly original components except for the saddle, pedals, and handlebar/stem. It should clean up pretty well.
For the serial number discussion: the serial number on this is N9E6XXX
For the serial number discussion: the serial number on this is N9E6XXX
03-05-18, 08:10 PM
#4392
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 8,827
Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super,Lemond Maillot Juane.& custom,PDG Paramount,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,
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I need a new pic though. It's now sporting a silver Thomson Seatpost and a Black Fabric saddle.
It's killing me having this separated shoulder and not being able to ride this and my other beauties.
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
Steel is real...and comfy.
03-05-18, 08:42 PM
#4393
Senior Member
I've had a cold that started the day after I picked up the other IM.(a week ago) So, no pictures yet. Once I get it in good running order, I can use a common wheelset and compare the rides. It will be interesting to see the difference if any, between the 86 and the Asian 87 with the lugged fork. I also have some more Japanese built/American Marketing Co. bikes with similar heritage that can be compared as well. An 84 Lotus Legend Compe w/Columbus SL and an 83 SR Semi Pro w/Tange 2. Gotta get through winter first.
03-07-18, 05:54 AM
#4394
Senior Member
^^^Well that's unfortunate, but that's how I started with my collection. I had 4 different sizes at one point. Hopefully you can sort it out, I finally did. Just remember The Ironman were measured center to top in 2cm increments 48cm-64cm. If you measure center to center (as most do), it becomes basically odd numbers 47cm-63cm.
03-07-18, 07:27 AM
#4395
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,767
Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road
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We have an '89 at the house that measures 58 the IM way and it has a 58 ctc TT. My 87 is a 60 that has a 57 TT. So I when you go to trade frames, take that into consideration. What is the TT on that 89?
03-10-18, 08:02 PM
#4397
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,767
Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road
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Holy cow! That is georgeous!
03-10-18, 08:13 PM
#4398
Senior Member
03-10-18, 08:26 PM
#4399
Senior Member
As soon as I was through, I thought I should've used the same wheels. Because as RT mentioned, and as we all know, wheels can make a huge difference. But yeah, next time reverse order.
