I Said I Would Never EVER Buy An E-Bike...but
#251
#252
Full Member
Without the e bike I would probably be down around 500-800 miles a year now instead of 4,000+
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#253
Senior Member
7 watt hours per mile would be consistent with me on my wife's 38 lb 750 watt e bike at 15 mph but not my 82 lb touring fat e bike at 20mph whenever the conditions permit.
At full touring weight and max power I am at just less than 4 watts per KG. Your 350 watts would put me down around 1.8 watts per KG and I could not go much off the pavement or climb steep grades. I would be too slow to balance.
At full touring weight and max power I am at just less than 4 watts per KG. Your 350 watts would put me down around 1.8 watts per KG and I could not go much off the pavement or climb steep grades. I would be too slow to balance.
My assist is just simply NOT enough to go up any hill without my pedaling, 350 watts hub motor just won't let me go anywhere without pedaling but flat ground. and, THAT is what an E-Assist bike should be.. IMO Assisting, NOT doing the whole job...
#254
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Thread Starter
FROM THE OP: The direction this thread has taken reminds me of why I resisted buying my wife an e-bike in the first place. There is suddenly so much more "techno-stress" in an activity that was once very pure. Now, every time we ride, I find myself stressing about whether her battery is going to last the whole trip, if she's going to get a rear-wheel flat that requires disconnecting and re-connecting all the power cables to get the wheel off, and how I'm going to store the bike over the winter so the battery doesn't explode.
And now, instead of looking forward to conversations about memorable routes and how to psych yourself up a hill, I find myself going out of my way to avoid conversations about wattage and voltage and laws and proper charging methods. I am thrilled that my wife likes her e-bike (although she is still terrified of it), but I agree with those who feel that e-bikes are casting a cloud over a sport/recreational activity/transportation mode that really didn't need to be messed with. I am saddened to watch young people zipping by on the bike path, thumbs fully engaging the throttle while holding a phone to their face in the other hand. I feel like they are missing out on the thrill and exhilaration of getting from Point A to point B on their own pedal power, and I resent that they seem to be looking down on me and my old-fashioned pedal bike as they leave me in the dust on trails I've been riding since before they were born.
However, to reiterate my original point, for certain people -- older folks and adults who did not grow up on bicycles and don't have the stamina, strength, or desire to sweat their way through even a two or three mile ride - I believe e-bikes have opened up a world they never would have had an opportunity to enjoy.
And now, instead of looking forward to conversations about memorable routes and how to psych yourself up a hill, I find myself going out of my way to avoid conversations about wattage and voltage and laws and proper charging methods. I am thrilled that my wife likes her e-bike (although she is still terrified of it), but I agree with those who feel that e-bikes are casting a cloud over a sport/recreational activity/transportation mode that really didn't need to be messed with. I am saddened to watch young people zipping by on the bike path, thumbs fully engaging the throttle while holding a phone to their face in the other hand. I feel like they are missing out on the thrill and exhilaration of getting from Point A to point B on their own pedal power, and I resent that they seem to be looking down on me and my old-fashioned pedal bike as they leave me in the dust on trails I've been riding since before they were born.
However, to reiterate my original point, for certain people -- older folks and adults who did not grow up on bicycles and don't have the stamina, strength, or desire to sweat their way through even a two or three mile ride - I believe e-bikes have opened up a world they never would have had an opportunity to enjoy.
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#255
Full Member
While I can see your conundrum, My POINT is, and always has been, Keeping a bicycle a bicycle... Even tho, I ride an "Assisted" bicycle... at what point does "assist" become" a motorized bicycle, well that IS, already established with the E-Bike laws. Which I strongly dis-agree with here in N America... Your numbers of 20 + watts per mile are almost the same as my numbers for using my E-Assist bike as a moped on the highest setting while I ride, witch, the cut off is 32Km/Hr. that is 20MPH.. It works out to 14watts per Km, or 22.4 watts per mile... Well... whenever I ride like that I am always thinking I am riding a moped, compared to what I can do with my own power only... Oh, my bike and me together are 280Lbs...
My assist is just simply NOT enough to go up any hill without my pedaling, 350 watts hub motor just won't let me go anywhere without pedaling but flat ground. and, THAT is what an E-Assist bike should be.. IMO Assisting, NOT doing the whole job...
My assist is just simply NOT enough to go up any hill without my pedaling, 350 watts hub motor just won't let me go anywhere without pedaling but flat ground. and, THAT is what an E-Assist bike should be.. IMO Assisting, NOT doing the whole job...
#256
Banned
You guys are studs for sure but when I get my 750 watter back together I'll show you some hill climbing! We've got plenty of 12 to 14 percenters around here, with a few stretches up to 20%. I have to work hard to ride them in my 34-34. With the 750, I expect to clear them w/o breaking a sweat!
#257
Senior Member
on our tandem when we cruse at about 18.5 mph we only use around 4 watts per mile and are only putting out around 120 or less on my part. I can't measure my wife's output. we use around 90 watts per mile when we climb a short 20% grade and put out around 350 to 400 watts.
#258
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riding an e-bike allows me and my congenital heart condition to ride 20, 50, 80 miles with thousands of feet of climbing, at exactly the maximum effort I can safely sustain - which is still over 200 watts average. without the motor when needed, I’d be limited to almost entirely flat rides. the assist percentages on my long rides is usually less than 10 percent. there’s also a lot of anecdotal evidence that average people with eBikes ride them more than average people with regular bikes.
I hope to see more even lighter, lower powered, smaller battery eBikes on the market. A 20lb road eBike with a 250w motor and a 150 wH battery would let most all people tackle most all urban and suburban terrain without unreasonable effort.
#259
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You guys are studs for sure but when I get my 750 watter back together I'll show you some hill climbing! We've got plenty of 12 to 14 percenters around here, with a few stretches up to 20%. I have to work hard to ride them in my 34-34. With the 750, I expect to clear them w/o breaking a sweat!
#260
Full Member
You guys are studs for sure but when I get my 750 watter back together I'll show you some hill climbing! We've got plenty of 12 to 14 percenters around here, with a few stretches up to 20%. I have to work hard to ride them in my 34-34. With the 750, I expect to clear them w/o breaking a sweat!
Current e bike laws disproportionally favor petite riders but then, so does biking in general.
#261
Banned
Well, I'm a porker, right at Clyde territory if you include the bike! I've tried this motor when my friend had it set up. I was able to throttle up one of our steeper hills at a good clip. I'll only use it for short jaunts so battery life shouldn't be an issue.
#262
Senior Member
Maybe and maybe not. Depends on the bike, the speed you expect and you. 750 watts is way better than a human can do but still totally pathetic from a power transmission point of view. Even a 20" push mower has more power than 750 watts.
Current e bike laws disproportionally favor petite riders but then, so does biking in general.
Current e bike laws disproportionally favor petite riders but then, so does biking in general.
#263
Banned
If it has a motor, it "actually"....
#264
Senior Member
Yes, for the tenth time or more, if it has a motor it is NOT a bicycle... But, Legally, there IS a differentiation, ... , What, do you not understand about that differentiation ... I think most people do, understand the difference, it's the level of "assistance" they have a problem with... or maybe, it's just me... ???
It is certainly feeling like it's just me, for the last 10? years.????
It is certainly feeling like it's just me, for the last 10? years.????
#265
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#266
This is what the dictionary says:-
Bicycle: A vehicle consisting of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, propelled by pedals and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel.
Motorcycle: A two-wheeled vehicle that is powered by a motor and has no pedals.
E-bike: A bike that can be powered by electricity as well as propelled by pedals
As this thread has certainly demonstrated, the generic term E-bike covers an extremely wide range of applications. At one end of the spectrum we have relatively low powered lightweight e-bikes that are still mostly propelled by pedalling with a proportional motor assist. While at the other end of the spectrum we have powerful heavyweight e-bikes with throttles and pedals with high levels of non-proportional assist. Plus about a 100 shades of grey in-between.
Bicycle: A vehicle consisting of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, propelled by pedals and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel.
Motorcycle: A two-wheeled vehicle that is powered by a motor and has no pedals.
E-bike: A bike that can be powered by electricity as well as propelled by pedals
As this thread has certainly demonstrated, the generic term E-bike covers an extremely wide range of applications. At one end of the spectrum we have relatively low powered lightweight e-bikes that are still mostly propelled by pedalling with a proportional motor assist. While at the other end of the spectrum we have powerful heavyweight e-bikes with throttles and pedals with high levels of non-proportional assist. Plus about a 100 shades of grey in-between.
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#267
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This is what the dictionary says:-
Bicycle: A vehicle consisting of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, propelled by pedals and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel.
Motorcycle: A two-wheeled vehicle that is powered by a motor and has no pedals.
E-bike: A bike that can be powered by electricity as well as propelled by pedals
As this thread has certainly demonstrated, the generic term E-bike covers an extremely wide range of applications. At one end of the spectrum we have relatively low powered lightweight e-bikes that are still mostly propelled by pedalling with a proportional motor assist. While at the other end of the spectrum we have powerful heavyweight e-bikes with throttles and pedals with high levels of non-proportional assist. Plus about a 100 shades of grey in-between.
Bicycle: A vehicle consisting of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other, propelled by pedals and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel.
Motorcycle: A two-wheeled vehicle that is powered by a motor and has no pedals.
E-bike: A bike that can be powered by electricity as well as propelled by pedals
As this thread has certainly demonstrated, the generic term E-bike covers an extremely wide range of applications. At one end of the spectrum we have relatively low powered lightweight e-bikes that are still mostly propelled by pedalling with a proportional motor assist. While at the other end of the spectrum we have powerful heavyweight e-bikes with throttles and pedals with high levels of non-proportional assist. Plus about a 100 shades of grey in-between.
The down side of the whole thing is when a certain momentum is reached, and mainstream people realize that this is happening, the Law will be changed, and even the low powered true E-Assist bikes will be relegated to the moped category, thus my obvious anti-high power set ups...
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#268
Banned
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#269
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If I am understanding correctly the problem youz guys are having is how fast that e bikes can go. If that is the problem then Road bike should be banded from MUP because the average guy can exceed 20 mph on them. So Road bikes and e bikes belong on the road. Simple conclusion for a politician. The walkers go away happy.
#270
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#271
Junior Member
I am off my bikes for a couple weeks because hips and shoulders were not designed to be slammed into the asphalt at 20 mph.
Although I do not desire or see a motorized bicycle in my future at 57 y/o, circumstances change. For now I am hiking to have some aerobic exercise. I just cannot visualize an e-bike delivering enough of a workout to justify the purchase. I will either hike or ride a bit slower with shorter distances. No shame in that. We age.
Although I do not desire or see a motorized bicycle in my future at 57 y/o, circumstances change. For now I am hiking to have some aerobic exercise. I just cannot visualize an e-bike delivering enough of a workout to justify the purchase. I will either hike or ride a bit slower with shorter distances. No shame in that. We age.
No, hips and shoulders aren't designed to be slammed into asphalt at 20 mph. I did that on June 2nd and that was on one of my road bikes. I bought a Trek Domane+ LT and don't understand why anyone would assume you don't get a workout with an ebike. I ride aggressively. On my normal 10 mile daily ride before work, there are 4 spots I sprint on the bike on the way home. I still sprint with the ebike. I still get a workout. However, MY KNEES AREN'T ACHING. Too many snapping kicks in my 20s and thirties from when I was in martial arts. Arthritis in both knees. I pushed through the aching for years. I've worn the neoprene sleeves. I forgot the sleeves this morning and my knees didn't complain. The ebike has been a blessing and a lot of fun.
#272
Senior Member
I am off my bikes for a couple weeks because hips and shoulders were not designed to be slammed into the asphalt at 20 mph.
Although I do not desire or see a motorized bicycle in my future at 57 y/o, circumstances change. For now I am hiking to have some aerobic exercise. I just cannot visualize an e-bike delivering enough of a workout to justify the purchase. I will either hike or ride a bit slower with shorter distances. No shame in that. We age.
Although I do not desire or see a motorized bicycle in my future at 57 y/o, circumstances change. For now I am hiking to have some aerobic exercise. I just cannot visualize an e-bike delivering enough of a workout to justify the purchase. I will either hike or ride a bit slower with shorter distances. No shame in that. We age.
That is what 10 Years of riding an E-Assist bicycle has taught me, I get to pick how much effort the motor puts into the ride... I can ride my bike 100 % under my own power, or 35% assist from the motor on top of what ever I actually put into the pedaling effort on level 1, or 75 % assist from the motor on top of what ever I put into the pedaling effort on level 2, or 150% level 3, or 300% on level 4, added onto what ever effort I put into the pedaling effort, with a cut off of 40ftLbs max, assistance form the motor in any level...
#273
Senior Member
I am off my bikes for a couple weeks because hips and shoulders were not designed to be slammed into the asphalt at 20 mph.
Although I do not desire or see a motorized bicycle in my future at 57 y/o, circumstances change. For now I am hiking to have some aerobic exercise. I just cannot visualize an e-bike delivering enough of a workout to justify the purchase. I will either hike or ride a bit slower with shorter distances. No shame in that. We age.
Although I do not desire or see a motorized bicycle in my future at 57 y/o, circumstances change. For now I am hiking to have some aerobic exercise. I just cannot visualize an e-bike delivering enough of a workout to justify the purchase. I will either hike or ride a bit slower with shorter distances. No shame in that. We age.
That is what 10 Years of riding an E-Assist bicycle has taught me, I get to pick how much effort the motor puts into the ride... I can ride my bike 100 % under my own power, or 35% assist from the motor on top of what ever I actually put into the pedaling effort on level 1, or 75 % assist from the motor on top of what ever I put into the pedaling effort on level 2, or 150% level 3, or 300% on level 4, added onto what ever effort I put into the pedaling effort, with a cut off of 29ftLbs max, assistance form the motor in any level...
EDIT; Just in case one does not understand the difference, with a pressure sensor controlling the motor input, compared to the cadence sensor, A cadence sensor will put in what ever level 1, 2 3, or 4 watts are programed into the system, not caring how much pressure the rider is "actually" putting onto the pedals...
Last edited by 350htrr; 08-02-21 at 09:20 PM.
#274
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^^^^& Good for all the older guys and gals getting their groove on an e-bike.
Just not my thang at this point in life. I do not mind going a bit slower over time or cutting distance. I cannot see dropping several $T's for a motorized bike when pedaling still works. It is not a race at this point but purely for the joy and fitness. If I only manage 7 mph up a 2 mile grade at 6%, that works for me. Doing 12 mph on the same grade with an extra 100 watts at my disposal is not needed.
We have a different vision of what is best for us. No problemo. Best of luck on your journeys.
Just not my thang at this point in life. I do not mind going a bit slower over time or cutting distance. I cannot see dropping several $T's for a motorized bike when pedaling still works. It is not a race at this point but purely for the joy and fitness. If I only manage 7 mph up a 2 mile grade at 6%, that works for me. Doing 12 mph on the same grade with an extra 100 watts at my disposal is not needed.
We have a different vision of what is best for us. No problemo. Best of luck on your journeys.
#275
Banned