sternforprez

On a budget and converting a flat bar road bike to drops. I have some mint 3x10 Shimano 105 bhifters I bought for $5 at a thrift store and want to use them and I have 4 options as I see it to make them work on a 9spd cassette. I love doing things as cheap as possible and already have bars, brakes, cable hangers, and 105 derailleurs from a co-op for $45 total.

1) Change to a 10spd cassette and chain (but I sure don't need 30 gears)
2) Use a Shiftmate
3) Use an alternate cable routing
4) Sell them online and buy 3x9 brifters

I ride for enjoyment, not to race, but I like stuff that works well especially in Colorado which has a few changes in terrain. What would actually work best?

bobotech

Wow, awesome deal!! I would try the alternate cable routing and just tweak it til you get it right.

I'm cheap and thats what i would do. I wouldn't want to bother with the expense of a 10speed chain and cassette. 9 speed stuff is quite cheap. I even get 9 speed chains at Fred Meyer for 16.99.

sternforprez

Does alternate cable routing ALWAYS work? I understand the slightest difference in routing the cable can affect the pull ratio and it sounds like a lot of trial and error which is fine. But is there always a sweet spot that is just right?

bobotech

Trial and error is indeed needed but its not that hard to get it to work. Takes a little bit. easier to leave some extra length in the cable to make it easier to tweak. If you are wanting easy to adjust, just use the alternate cable routing and buy a shiftmate online. once you get the shiftmate, that should make shifting easier to tune since you won't have to worry about the alternate cable position.

Al1943

The best option by far is a 10-speed Shimano cassette and chain.

HillRider

True as that makes everything completely compatible but at some, maybe significant, cost for the parts

The second choice is the Shiftmate as they work wonderfully and do exactly what is required to make otherwise unmatched drivetrains work together. They have a cost but not a large one.

The third, and maybe impractical choice, is to reroute the cable attachment. It seems to be touted as a universal fix but I can't believe it works in all situations and to correct all mis-matches. It's worth trying but I won't be surprised if it can't be made to work.

Retro Grouch 

First of all, I've never tried it and I doubt I ever will.

How picky are you about your shifting? Does having to make two upshifts and one downshift to get the next gear drive you nuts? Believe it or not, some people don't mind that. If it would drive you nuts, get matching parts from the start.

HillRider

I haven't either. As I recall, the rerouting technique was developed or at least popularized by Sheldon Brown as a fix for a specific problem; making 8-speed Dura Ace rear derailleurs with their unique geometry work with other Shimano shifter models. It has since been recommended as a nearly universal cure for every and any shifting mismatch and I can't believe it is that versatile.

I do know from a lot of personal experience that Shiftmates work and work very well. They are not a near-miss, they work exactly as advertised.

nymtber

If you want to be cheap, sell the 105 brifters and pick up some 9speed 105 on ebay.

I see zero reason to mis-match shifter and cassette capacity. Makes no sense at all.

wrk101

+10 Turn them into cash and get a set of nine speed shifters. Buy and sell right, and you will end up with $$ in your pocket.

Shiftmate cost is similar to a new cassette, but less than a chain and a cassette.

sternforprez

The only reason I would is in case I do decide to go to 10spd all I'll need is a cassette and chain.

I like clean shifting but probably am not as picky as most. I appreciate all the ideas. I think I'll try the cable routing and if it doesn't do it, a Shiftmate can be thrown on since it sounds like it works very well.

Gonzo Bob

Another option is to get an old 7400 series Dura-Ace rear derailer (6,7,8-speed vintage). It'll be short cage. though, so not a good option if you are running a triple crank.

FBinNY 

+1, get a nice 10s cassette with a range that suits you, and enjoy a bike that works as well as possible, rather than some kludge with mediocre performance. If going 10s bothers you, leave a sprocket off, but preserve the spacing. (just kidding).

Actually, I'm considering modifying a Campy freehub to shorten the freehub body and kick the shell slightly to the right, to make a reduced dish 9s hub with 10s spacing, or possibly an 8s with 9s spacing. This is easier with Campy because of the design, but I don't think it's an option for Shimano.

hyhuu

I use option 3 on my bike when my old 9-speed shifter died. It has worked flawlessly. Look up on Sheldon Brown site. It's easy and cost no money.

HillRider

And, as a couple of us mentioned above, this works only in a few cases so more details are needed. Exactly what did you replace your shifters with, what rear derailleur do you use and precisely where did you reroute the cable?

cycle_maven

Option 3. No question. simplest and cheapest. I've used it a few times on different setups, and found that it's a great intermediate step. I can't tell the difference in shifting between my 9-speed shifters and my 10-speed shifters with alternate cable routing. But, I'm pretty anal about keeping my drivelines clean and lubed, including cables. To date, the drivetrains I've done this way:

10-speed 105 shifter with 9-speed Deore and with 10-speed 105 der on a 9-speed cassette
10-speed Microshift shifter with 9-speed Ultegra GS derailleur

The alternate cable routing wasn't just a kludge that Sheldon Brown stumbled upon- it was designed by Shimano to maintain at least some compatibility between speed groups. 9-speed shifters work with 8-speed cassettes, 10-speed shifters work with 9-speed cassettes, 8-speed dura-ace shifters work with other 8, 9 and 10-speed derailleurs. The Shimano derailleurs have that extra tab for exactly that reason. Otherwise, there would be absolutely no reason to have that extra tab; one tab would have been enough.

Edit- OP asked which one works *best*, though. I haven't tried the shiftmate, and the alternate cable routing 9-speed shifts slightly better than my native 10-speed bikes, so option 3 is better IMO than option 1, I haven't tried a shiftmate, so my rankings for best function are:
1st-2nd tie: Option 3 and Option 4
3rd: Option 1
DNF: Option 2

For least expensive and most flexible, given the OP's starting point, Option 3 wins handily.

sternforprez

The reason I'd like to stay with 9 speed for now is because I have two extra cassettes and an extra chain. I won't need to worry about these for a while and I can swap cassettes or make a custom one with different combinations of cogs. I've also heard that 10sp chains are one connection and done - once you break them you need a new link to reattach (is this true?). Plus, any replacement components are far cheaper if needed.

As far as alternate routing, I'm hearing both sides and respect each, but the one's who say it works are the one's who have tried it. Once I get my cables and housings I'll try that and report back. Thank you all.

dddd

One question that I'm not hearing is "what are you going to do with the extra click that the 10sp shifter has?

This IS an issue.

If you allow the cable to go slack on the small end of the cassette, you'll get occasional phantom "non-shifts" and possibly have your cable coming adrift from the bottom bracket cable guide or even snagging something like a chainring pickup pin.
You might also end up with a cable housing end getting hung-up either out of a ferrule or with the ferrule cocked, putting the cable tension randomly out of adjustment.

If you "lock out" the last click above the biggest cassette sprocket, against the limit screw, another big problem emerges. Namely that the long, elastic cabling will still allow that last click to occur, and when it does your shifter will have so much cable tension so as to possibly prevent the shifter's upshift lever from getting you out of low gear. You may have to un-bolt your cable stop from the downtube to free it up, assuming your frame has removeable stops. Otherwise, you may have to detach the cable at the derailer or loosen the limit screw or barrel adjuster to un-stick your shifter.
Sometimes a forceful series of lever movements will also free the shifter, but at the expense of over-tensing your cabling and torturing your shifter mech.

Note that Shimano provided certain of their bar-end shifters for use with fewer gears than the shifters had clicks, but these bar-end shifters have forced detenting in both directions instead of a ratcheting design, and so cannot lock up.
Note also that Campag's Ergo shifters have levers which actuate forced detenting, thus are not a ratcheted design like STI road levers, and so are friendly to the prospect of using, for example, 10sp Ergo levers with Shimano 8s derailer and cassette.
And lastly note that Shimano did spec some of their triple front shifters for use with doubles, and with the 3rd click locked out againt cable tension with the hi-limit screw. But these shifters have much longer cable travel per click, yet are still occasionally plagued with lock-up if the cable tension isn't kept freshly snugged.



So I have to nominate the substitution of a 10sp cassette and chain here, or swapping for 9sp levers.

hyhuu

I replace my 9-speed Sora with 10-speed Microshift and the rear derailleur is Tiagra. The reroute is position B shown here https://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html It works even better than my Sora but that's prob the shifter.

hyhuu

It's not an issue. With the H-limit correctly set. The extra click does absolutely nothing. Problem solves.

cycle_maven

No, the extra click is absolutely not a problem. At least it wasn't for me. The limit screw should be set up so the last click tightens the cable so much against the limit screw that it won't actually click unless you force it *really* hard. You can feel it when you're against the stop. The shifter just doesn't move any more. Feels almost exactly like a 9-speed shifter when it comes to the end of its travel.

sternforprez

Not worried about the extra click. Already knew its not a problem. For those in favor of routing the cable (and I've read elsewhere that it works great for the majority) what is it that adjusts it just right? Is it the angle of the bend in the cable (a few degrees either way from 90), tension, or other? The more I read the replies the more I realize I won't shell out cash for 10 speed components when half the gears are either unusable or duplicates, and my little worn 9 speed stuff will go to waste. Plan B will be a $40 Shiftmate.

bobotech

Good cohice. And someday you might come across a deal on some 10 speed cassette/chains and then you could finish the swap.

I guess some people value their time more than their money. I have plenty of time and no money so i do what is cheapest. I'm not worried about absolute perfection and I know I can get most things to work just fine.

dddd

This doesn't fully reflect my experience, not to mention that (albeit very conservative) Shimano doesn't endorse it with their ratcheted shifters, yet does endorse it with their bar-ends.

In practice, at the shop, I've seen customers return after a 5-minute ride, shifter locked. This was not acceptable at the retail level.

On my own, not usually a problem. But, I stopped applying this kluge fix to my own vintage bikes because during just a few months, under normal riding conditions, it happened more than once, and I had to stop and fiddle with it.

I always thought that if you could put some kind of crimp-on bead on the rear derailer cable, just below the downtube cable housing stop, so the bead strikes the stop just as you arrive at low gear, the cable stretch would be reduced to a much shorter length of cable and an overshift couldn't so easily occur. But I never found any kind of stopper that could be easily attached to the cable or that wouldn't rattle against the frame if it were stout enough to perhaps sport an Allen set-screw.

Careful adjustment of the limit screws isn't the issue here. The Low limit screw should always allow unrestricted access to the lowest gear's click, at least the lowest gear that's on the cassette not the shifter. I service so many bikes which have the cable(s) having to be actually stretched to reach the last shift, as an over-tightened limit screw intrudes, and this really shortens cable life and particularly the service interval of the cable adjustment as the plastic housing ferrules yield to the sustained over-tension in the cable.

Certainly also, as the index spacing (cable travel per click) reaches a minimum with Shimano's 10-speed shifters (11 speed has newly-increased cable travel), the likelihood of stretching the cable to the last "hidden" click is easier than ever.

redlude97

I think that in your case and in most shops cases they shouldn't be applying this to customer bikes as a fix, but on a personal bike it isn't a problem. You shouldn't be butting up against the lower limit until you try to get into that last unused click anyways, the previous click still has unhindered movement. If you know how your bike is set up and know not to mash the shifter into the limit then its never a problem. All it takes is that slight feeling of increased resistance to know that you've reached the end of your cassette anyways, if it wasn't already completely obvious to you based on your effort and gearing. I've never had excessive cable "stretch" from using alternate routing