Scrockern8r

I've got what X-linkedrider said...
77' Schwinn Traveller III that is bone stock 'cept for tires. Scale came in at 32lbs! Including factory rack and fenders.

I'll ride it and follow carfrees advice...

kaliayev

Those are really nice frames. I rode a friends this summer and it's the reason I decided to make an 853 frame my winter project. Came down between a 04 Fuji Roubaix, 99 Lemond Zurich, and an 00 Voodoo Rada. Ended up going with the Rada as it is rarer and made in the USA. The Zurich was hard to pass up. A guy had one about 3 miles from me, mint frame set for $200.

kaliayev

Yeah, not sure how that 12lber would hold up to my fat arse.

Bob Ross

^^^This. Several years ago I saw some postings on another forum where Richard Sachs & Dave Kirk both opined that, all other things being equal, the modern steel frames & forks they were building will weigh around 1.5lbs heavier than the equivalent carbon wunderbike from Cervelo or Scott or Trek et al. So yeah, assuming you go for the primo ultralight components, a ~16lb modern steel bike should be trivial to concoct.

Hell, I've got a carbon wunderbike that's around 18lbs; I could lose weight by going with steel!




Now, if only I could find a way to get my 25-year-old steel bike down to 16lbs...

ravenmore

Why do people ride with their saddles like that? Awesome bike but the saddle angle totally Freds it out.

ravenmore

Here's my 1986 Centurion IronMan Master. About 17.5 in this pic, which is pretty close to the weight of my 2006 Giant TCR carbon with training wheels on.

Sixty Fiver

I have been able to fondle English bikes and they are simply beautiful... but besides being real, these steel beauties will cost you a fair bit more than mass produced carbon bike.

Making an ultralight steel bike requires that you use the lightest of light components so matching the weight of a carbon bike means you have to save another 1-2 pounds and at this level a pound will cost you about $1000.00

My Ron Cooper is set up for randonneuring and hits the curb at 21 pounds... it would take very little effort on my part to make it a sub 20 pound bike as all I would need to do is switch to my racing wheels.

As a 531 framed geared bike it weighs the same as my 531 framed fixed gear... it is about as light a steel frame as I have ever handled and both bikes have similar components save for their drive trains.

And after all this it has more to do with the carbon bits that sit on the bike... my Cooper and I hit the curb at less than 165 pounds.

crhilton

Steel frames aren't that heavy, especially nice ones. Steel forks are.

kabex

Saddle angle + small chainring.

On the plus side, his saddle-to-bar drop is very high, so it cancels out his frediness.

LesterOfPuppets

If I had to bend over that far to reach the bars I'd probably tilt my saddle a bit too.

kabex

Probably went a bit too high with the ISP now he's screwed.

DOS

That seems heavy to me. By coincidence, I just weighed my new Soma (58cm) this week. It came in at just a hair under 21 lbs with Mavic OPs on ultegra hubs, shimano 105 shifter/derallieurs, and Truvativ alloy crankset. None of these components is particularly light.

zitter

Since we're on the topic of steel, what are the benefits (if any) of a lugged frame over a non-lugged frame? Is it just looks?

Grumpy McTrumpy

try rotating the image until the wheels are parallel with the bottom crop and then see if the drop is as great as you imagined.

Lectron

LesterOfPuppets

I'm an old man. My saddle to bar drop is about 1" or so. Sometimes I think about bringing the bars up to the same level but I'll see if I can last 'til I'm 45 like this.

Grumpy McTrumpy

my drop is 4" and I am 43 racing age.

Rowan

Now, you're not suggesting umd is ghost-posting through his wife, are you?

Rowan

Really, most of the weight in bikes comes from the rider. The rest is almost irrelevant, especially when you look at the percentages. The importance of bike weight for just about all of us here comes when lifting it up on the roof racks.

I remember a post on here a long, long time ago from someone who had been a pro rider (maybe classic1) who said the weight of bikes he rode wasn't that important.

The cost of really light steel frames lies in the expertise required to braze or weld and post-treat the alloys so they don't become brittle and break. Another issue is the right chainstay and its longevity... if the steel is too thin, they have a habit of breaking. I acquired an old lightweight steel Gitane from an ex-racer that had a broken chainstay with the intention of having it replaced, but never did, mainly because of the metallurgical issues in brazing around the BB and seat stay.

echappist

comfort issues. I have mine set up like that, though I am a total fred with my fenders.

DRietz

Hm... interesting. I think you and Joe are on to something. It could have been my stupid scale...

Da Tinker

OK, I am 6'3" & 210 pounds. My custom IFab Crown Jewel w/steel fork, SRAM Force kit & traditional wheels, 32 F, 36 R weights in at 19.2 pounds.

I've broken frames, stems & wheels, so nothing is scary light on this rig.

Sixty Fiver

A lugged frame is built using brass or silver braze and this joining technique requires a lower temperature than tig welding so causes less deformation, the tubes used can be lighter since the butt end and the lug are joined (which adds strength), and in the case of the bottom bracket a lugged shell is superior to a shell that is tig welded as again, you are dealing with less heat.

The difference in weight between a lugged and tigged frame is actually very small although a filet brazed or tig welded frame allows for more variances in frame angles.

We filet braze most of our frames but our bottom brackets are always lugged as this just makes a bike stronger where it needs to be strong.

As a mechanic I have seen far more failures in tig welded bottom brackets than I have in lugged shells and failure usually stems from builder error as a tigged bottom bracket should not fail if it was properly constructed... you can often see that a bb shell has been "burned" or cooled incorrectly which causes the steel to become brittle and then it cracks. Lugged shells can crack but this usually stems from a defect in the casting and not because it was over heated.

Repairing a lugged frame is easier as one can heat the joints and remove a damaged tube and replace it whereas when a tigged frame buys the farm it is pretty much 4 pounds of good looking scrap... this is something touring cyclists appreciate as just about anywhere you travel you will be able to find someone with a torch and 1 inch tubes are pretty standard.

It is hard to beat a lugged frame for looks... and well crafted lugs are a point of pride for builders and riders alike but the beauty of a lug has little to do with how well it is joined as that is something you usually cannot see.

Sixty Fiver

The lugwork and construction on my Ron Cooper is what every frame builder should aspire to as although my frame is rather plain (it's a racing frame), it was built by the greatest frame builder alive and his work is second to none.

It was built freehand with no jigs as old school frame builders did this to keep the jig and fixture from drawing heat from the frame which was just another small step in building a better frame. Some other builders like Mercian practiced hearth brazing where the entire frame was heated to brazing temperature in a hearth and then brazed.

It's all in the fill... a perfect lugged frame will have 100% fill of the brazed joints to provide maximum strength and a failure here than cause weakness and failure.

I have a gorgeous hand built Proctor racing frame that had it head lugs fail and once they were separated you could see where the brazing had not been complete... our thought is that it was joined at too low a temperature as it's 753 tubes require a lower temp than regular silver brazed frames.

zitter

Wow, thanks for all the information. I guess I'm glad I got a lugged steel frame on my bike, although it's almost definitely a lower end one, Lugged Reynolds 520 Butted chromoly.