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New Surly Long Haul Trucker frame vs 95 Trek 830 frame - Cro-Moly Battle to the Death

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New Surly Long Haul Trucker frame vs 95 Trek 830 frame - Cro-Moly Battle to the Death

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Old 10-14-15, 06:33 AM
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New Surly Long Haul Trucker frame vs 95 Trek 830 frame - Cro-Moly Battle to the Death

Just as I am about to kick off the major overhaul of my 1995 Trek 830 Mountain Bike, to make it more Commuter friendly and refreshed, I get the brilliant idea of perhaps buying a Surly Long Haul Trucker frame instead and putting all my new parts on to it and putting my Trek 830 into retirement for now.

So I am starting this thread to get people's opinions on how big a difference in ride quality they think there would be between my Trek 830(which like the Surly LHT has a Cro-Moly frame) and a new Surly LHT?

I know the Surly has much more versatility for added racks and various things to it, but that is not a factor in why I am considering the Surly LHT frame & forkset.

In the contest between the old Trek 830 and the Surly LHT, I'm only interested in how noticeable or not, the difference in feel of comfort and anything else, be it speed or stability or whatever, that is likely to exist between my Trek 830 & the Surly LHT.

Now unless someone is going to shock me and tell me otherwise, yes I expect the Surly LHT to be better across the board, but is the difference big enough to justify in your opinion the cost of buying the Surly LHT, versus reusing my existing frame at no cost to me?

I'm pretty much only an urban rider, cars are just about always constantly around me, and I tend to switch regularly from road to footpath depending on where I am riding.

I won't be using either bike as a mountain bike, but as a more rugged 7.3 FX for want of a better term.

Definitely appreciate any insights and feedback that people have.

Cheers.

P.S. Either way, the bike will be setup to use a flat bar handlebar.

Last edited by ColonelSanders; 10-14-15 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 10-14-15, 06:41 AM
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Your question really is this: what is it like riding a Surly LHT unloaded. This has been discussed at length all over the place -- on forums (including BF), and in reviews; simply 'google' the bolded phrase.
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Old 10-14-15, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by badger1
Your question really is this: what is it like riding a Surly LHT unloaded. This has been discussed at length all over the place -- on forums (including BF), and in reviews; simply 'google' the bolded phrase.
Or how much better or not, is the Surly LHT when unloaded, likely to be over my Trek 830?
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Old 10-14-15, 10:05 AM
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Get 1 of each, then do destructive testing.
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Old 10-14-15, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ColonelSanders
Or how much better or not, is the Surly LHT when unloaded, likely to be over my Trek 830?
Bikes are all about function and compromise. You maximize your functionality and minimize your compromises. Your riding style and terrain are the main generators of functionality. These factors dictate wheel diameter, frame clearance, and geometry.

The LHT has a low BB with long chainstays, which makes it "stable, especially at speed." Sounds great, who wants an unstable bike? But were not playing word games; in cycling, the opposite of "stable" is "agile." Which is better? Depends on what you want. The long stays add more comfort in the saddle because the rear wheel is less directly under your butt. Sounds good; but that comfort comes at the price of increased turning radius, and more effort required to lift the front end. Do you like to pedal through corners? If so, a low BB may not be for you

In the end, the LHT is designed for riding long distances carrying a load, hence the name. For short city rides, Id recommend something else. A lot depends on your city also. Is it like Manhattan where compact and agile is good, or is it more spread out and open? In the end, they're just bikes and it doesn't seem like you're asking anything from them that the correct tires cannot solve so do whatever makes you happiest. They'll both work

Last edited by DorkDisk; 10-14-15 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 10-14-15, 11:33 AM
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I rode a Trek 520 and it rides like a tank. That stability you'll appreciate when you're commuting and touring but for day rides around the city, its overkill.

Get a lighter bike.
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Old 10-14-15, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by DorkDisk
Bikes are all about function and compromise. You maximize your functionality and minimize your compromises. Your riding style and terrain are the main generators of functionality. These factors dictate wheel diameter, frame clearance, and geometry.

The LHT has a low BB with long chainstays, which makes it "stable, especially at speed." Sounds great, who wants an unstable bike? But were not playing word games; in cycling, the opposite of "stable" is "agile." Which is better? Depends on what you want. The long stays add more comfort in the saddle because the rear wheel is less directly under your butt. Sounds good; but that comfort comes at the price of increased turning radius, and more effort required to lift the front end. Do you like to pedal through corners? If so, a low BB may not be for you

In the end, the LHT is designed for riding long distances carrying a load, hence the name. For short city rides, Id recommend something else. A lot depends on your city also. Is it like Manhattan where compact and agile is good, or is it more spread out and open? In the end, they're just bikes and it doesn't seem like you're asking anything from them that the correct tires cannot solve so do whatever makes you happiest. They'll both work
That is some great feedback, thank you very much.

Not sure I am any less conflicted, but you raised some important points I was unaware of.
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Old 10-14-15, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by NormanF
I rode a Trek 520 and it rides like a tank. That stability you'll appreciate when you're commuting and touring but for day rides around the city, its overkill.

Get a lighter bike.
Norman,
I am probably twice your weight.
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Old 10-14-15, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ColonelSanders
Or how much better or not, is the Surly LHT when unloaded, likely to be over my Trek 830?
Hi Colonel,

So, I've read through the parallel thread you started over in 'Commuting' on this. In light of that, may I make a slightly off-the-wall suggestion? Why don't you investigate the Thorn Sherpa frameset. It seems to me that -- if your budget permits -- this might be exactly what you are looking for.

In effect, it is an updated version of your 830 -- but built out of much higher quality steel than is either your frame or the LHT. In addition, two things:

1. You can choose the lighter fork option, and build up your bike as a 'day ride/commute' focussed ride, rather than a loaded touring one, and
2. Geometry. You are going to use flat bars; the Thorn frameset (unlike the LHT) gives you the option to choose geometry better suited to flat bars.

As I said, I've no idea about your budget, but it really might be worth considering this option, and talking to the people at St John Cycles. Lots of people from OZ have ordered Thorn framesets/bikes, and been very happy. Just a suggestion. Bespoke Thorn Touring Cycles
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Old 10-14-15, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by badger1
Hi Colonel,

So, I've read through the parallel thread you started over in 'Commuting' on this. In light of that, may I make a slightly off-the-wall suggestion? Why don't you investigate the Thorn Sherpa frameset. It seems to me that -- if your budget permits -- this might be exactly what you are looking for.

In effect, it is an updated version of your 830 -- but built out of much higher quality steel than is either your frame or the LHT. In addition, two things:

1. You can choose the lighter fork option, and build up your bike as a 'day ride/commute' focussed ride, rather than a loaded touring one, and
2. Geometry. You are going to use flat bars; the Thorn frameset (unlike the LHT) gives you the option to choose geometry better suited to flat bars.

As I said, I've no idea about your budget, but it really might be worth considering this option, and talking to the people at St John Cycles. Lots of people from OZ have ordered Thorn framesets/bikes, and been very happy. Just a suggestion. Bespoke Thorn Touring Cycles
Thank you very much for this suggestion, I hadn't looked at Thorn before as I was unaware of them, so when I get home from work I'll download their mega-catalogue that is either 20 or 30megabytes.

Even if I don't get a Thorn this time round, it could be my next bike in a year or two or three, as I do want two bikes that are very much tailored for me.
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Old 10-19-15, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by badger1
Hi Colonel,

So, I've read through the parallel thread you started over in 'Commuting' on this. In light of that, may I make a slightly off-the-wall suggestion? Why don't you investigate the Thorn Sherpa frameset. It seems to me that -- if your budget permits -- this might be exactly what you are looking for.

In effect, it is an updated version of your 830 -- but built out of much higher quality steel than is either your frame or the LHT. In addition, two things:

1. You can choose the lighter fork option, and build up your bike as a 'day ride/commute' focussed ride, rather than a loaded touring one, and
2. Geometry. You are going to use flat bars; the Thorn frameset (unlike the LHT) gives you the option to choose geometry better suited to flat bars.

As I said, I've no idea about your budget, but it really might be worth considering this option, and talking to the people at St John Cycles. Lots of people from OZ have ordered Thorn framesets/bikes, and been very happy. Just a suggestion. Bespoke Thorn Touring Cycles
Badger1,
I don't know whether to thank you or to curse you, but I can't get that Thorn Sherpa out of my mind now.

After reading some of the responses to this thread and its copy in the Commuting section, I had pretty much made up my mind to get the Surly LHT and I suspect I would have liked it a fair bit, but now I have my heart set on that blood red Thorn Sherpa with the lightweight fork option.

This will delay me a bit more whilst I save up the funds, but I suspect I will be much happier in the long run.

I will probably still redo my Trek 830 in the medium term, not just for comparison purposes, but for those occasions where I may need to leave my bike locked up and I don't want to leave the Thorn Sherpa there.
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Old 10-19-15, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ColonelSanders
Badger1,
I don't know whether to thank you or to curse you, but I can't get that Thorn Sherpa out of my mind now.

After reading some of the responses to this thread and its copy in the Commuting section, I had pretty much made up my mind to get the Surly LHT and I suspect I would have liked it a fair bit, but now I have my heart set on that blood red Thorn Sherpa with the lightweight fork option.

This will delay me a bit more whilst I save up the funds, but I suspect I will be much happier in the long run.

I will probably still redo my Trek 830 in the medium term, not just for comparison purposes, but for those occasions where I may need to leave my bike locked up and I don't want to leave the Thorn Sherpa there.
You probably shouldn't check out the R&E UTB or the Co-Motion Pangea.
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Old 10-19-15, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by corwin1968
You probably shouldn't check out the R&E UTB or the Co-Motion Pangea.
Hah. Of course I couldn't resist and had to look them up, but thankfully, they actually don't do it for me.
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