bboy314

Aren’t cars just an aid for people too lazy and incompetent to walk?

Come to think of it, so are bicycles.

PeteHski

I never did try those, but the fact that they exist says a lot about the stock setup. I still have my ‘82 911 SC but it hasn’t moved out of the garage for years. If I ever decide to drive it again I might well look at those options. The gearshift is by far the worst feature of these cars. Then again, some people actually like it that way and feel like they have acquired a special skill set! I think friction shifting has a similar following, although some just like it for simplicity and to avoid compatibility issues.

almico8 

I am the 9th owner of this 911. It's nothing short of amazing that the previous 8 were worthy stewards of this car. All the foibles were rectified along the way. 930 valve covers, upgraded chain tensioners, upgraded head studs etc. Not sure how the engineers thought a magnesium case, aluminum heads and steel head studs would somehow magically work with all that heat and mismatched expansion rates. The last thing for me was to upgrade was the insane early smog system...thermal reactors and smog pump were removed after I bought the car but before I drove it the 2800 miles home from Spokane to NJ.

Somewhere along the line one of the previous owners did something to the gearbox. I haven't been in there to check, but it shifts very nicely. Nice enough that I haven't had the least inkling to address it. Yes, it's like a "broomstick in a bucket", but everyone that has driven it that knows these cars has mentioned it. It's no 992, and I can't slam it through the range, but if you know where to go, it will get there easily. I consider it a theft deterrent. You might be able to start this car, but driving it away will weed out the inexperienced. And yes, I can shift into reverse at 100mph. Fortunately, it hasn't happened.

This car was from an era when owners manuals told you how to adjust the valves, now they tell you not to put washer fluid in the oil fill. Tells you how far we've come as a society.

And to bring it back to friction shifters, sure there are easier, faster ways to do things. But we still have turntables, film cameras, mechanical watches and real musical instruments when computers can make music easier and faster etc. Heck, maybe AI can make it so I don't even have to ride a bike at all. It can do it for me. I guess that's what e-bikes are for.

Sorry for the car chat, but since this is a "zombie thread" after all, and I am nothing but a troll, let the oversensitive have at it.

PeteHski

What owner’s manual actually says that? Back in 1973 Porsche moved the oil filler from the rear side external position to inside the engine bay because people mistook it for a fuel filler.

almico8 

Since hyperbole seems to be reigning supreme in this thread, I took the liberty of joining in. I was just making a point. We used to fix things. Now we replace them. And technically you would have to go back to the 60s to find an owners manual that included instructions for adjusting the valves.

PeteHski

I guess we have a choice of simple and fixable vs complex and replaceable. If you choose simple then you have to accept its functional limitations. If you choose complex you have to accept that you might not be able to fix it.

almico8 

Sometimes there is complex just for the sake of complex....and marketing. The bike industry seems to be having this problem now. Are these "upgrades" being called for by a biking public need, or necessary to sell this year's bikes, when there are clearly more than enough bikes in the world already.

I've been out of the loop for 12 years. I feel like Rip Van Winkle. I've watched every minute of the Tour de France for the past 25 years, so I've noticed the advent of electronic shifting, but I haven't been riding so I really didn't care. Now that I'm back in the shallow end again I've learned about disc brakes, mechanical and hydraulic...hydraulic?! Boy, that makes things easier! I hate bleeding my cars brakes, I certainly don't want to do it on my bikes. Is stopping power that's enough to lock both wheels on a dime really necessary? When are we going to get anti-lock brakes on bikes. I ride motorcycles too, and with the extra weight, you do have a chance of executing an emergency stop if you're not going to fast, but if I'm doing 45mph down a hill on a bike, and a deer jumps out in front of me, am I really hitting the brakes hard or just aiming for the path of least resistance...sticker bush or guard rail?

shelbyfv

Would never have guessed....

PeteHski

In your missing 12 years all these concerns have been beaten to death many times over.

almico8 

Tough crowd!? Thank heavens we're only talking about bicycles and nothing serious.

Maelochs

The fact that people would pump unleaded into the windshield wiper fluid container sort of proves the point.

almico8 

That's how we purify the gene pool. Those people should not be breeding.

Maelochs

On another hand there are a lot of new developments which make riding a whole lot more enjoyable for a whole lot of people. Just because you would be happiest on a wood-framed bike with no pedals, doesn't mean most people don't want indexed shifting, better brakes (either disc otr just dual-pivot) , modern frame designs, better tires .... I don't care if you like friction shifters. I started on SS, went to IGH 3-speed, then to friction for about thirty years. Now everything I own is index, and it makes riding a lot more enjoyable. I started with a 3-speed thumb-shifter, to stem shifters, to downtube shifters to bar-ends, and now all my road bikes have brifters. Much improved ... I don't have to change my balance reaching down to move the lever ... and not to brag but I got Really good a friction-shifting ... I am sure most of the older folks here can say the same.

Brifters are still better ... IMO.


No ... but a lot of people are having problems with the bicycle industry it seems. Considering that people are still buying bikes, and still buying the bikes you claim they should not want .... it seems that the general bike-buying public does not agree with you.

Also .... what "upgrades" came out this season? Disc brakes are old ... indexed shifting is old ... Brifters are old ... what "Upgrades," what Specific new technology, was introduced this season to sell this season's bikes? Seems to me your whole rant is based on your imagination.

This is the most megalomaniacal, purely insane statement I have read on these pages ... and the bar was already exceedingly high.

There are Already Enough Bikes in the World???!!!!!

The entire bike industry should shut down. People who don;'t have bikes ... can just do without. People who want to upgrade ... screw them. if your bike gets stolen ... you walk. You get hit by a car and your bike is trashed ... you were never meant to ride.

What kind of absolutely mindless, thoughtless, ridiculous total-fail thinking is this?

I will just leave that sitting there in case anyone ever wants to imagine you have good ideas about bikes.

PromptCritical 

And to get to that point in the manual you'd have to read through 11 pages of ways it can kill you if you are stupid (which of course someone did at least once because the kinds of lawyers that right that stuff aren't smart enough to figure that out on their own).

drlogik 

When I was 18, every kid I knew changed the oil in their own car, if they owned a car! That's just what we did back then where I lived. MOST didn't own their own car and if they did, like me, it was a beat-up old car. Mine was a 1962 VW Bug that I bought for $100 bucks,

This rings true today, not explicitly but exemplary of our society today:

Friction shifters are today's manual shift gearbox. I have two bikes with friction shifters. One is my 1980's Pinarello Montello full Campy and the other is a 1980's Raleigh Wyoming. I have lost some muscle-memory shifting the Montello and shifting stem friction shifters on the Wyoming feels just downright dangerous now. The handle bar wants to turn on every up-shift. Once I'm out on my ride with the Montello the muscle memory returns and I seldom miss a quick shift.

My daily driver is a 1971 Triumph TR-6 with a 4-speed synched gearbox and factory over-drive that I have to flip a switch to engage. I love driving our automatic Suburban but the visceral feel of a manual gearbox and friction shifters is an addiction I don't want to shake.

tomato coupe

Is anyone surprised by this statement?
ftfy

PromptCritical 

Modern drivetrains when they work are awesome. But when they don't, they can be a horrifying PITA. With the general demise of the LBS and quality work, one is forced to do their own work unless they want to wait 10-12 days for the LBS to get to the work. I love doing my own work, but the systems are so complex and unique, it is really, really difficult to find the specific knowledge need to work on a modern drivetrain (brakes are still generally simple and very much like car/motorcyce brakes).

I recently converted a bike to a SRAM 12speed XDR drivetrain. I foolishly thought I could use their flatbar trigger shifter with an XDR cassette. Nope, the cogs and spacing are a fraction of a mm different. Not only does it shift like crXp, but it won't shift across 12 cogs, only 11 (my fix for that is to reach down and tug on the cable to use the largest cog. Sure, I could use an XD cassette, but I don't like the cogs available. So, I'm going to convert it to friction shifting this week.

It's not just the bike manufacturers. We had to replace our dishwasher and the new one (a Bosch) comes with an app which is the only way to control some of the features. Really?

I bought an e-bike to help with rehabilitation after a medical procedure. It has an app that forces an update, which promptly "bricked" the bike. After my procedure, I wasn't able to put it on the roof rack to take it to the Trek dealer. Fortunately the 12 mile ride to the Trek dealer is downhill and it has manual shifting.

PromptCritical 

I'm looking forward to the next discussion of wheel rotating mass.......

almico8 

Think before you post:

Does what I am about to type need to be said?
Does it need to be said right now and
Do I need to be the one to say it.

Am I being helpful, or just poking at someone and trying to inflate my already too low sense of self esteem?

PeteHski

I must have missed the transition to automatic bike transmissions. Mine are all still manual shift, just with much better ergonomics (and more gears).

PeteHski

You should follow your own advice.

almico8 

Clearly you did not read anything I wrote. Or you read the white part and not the black.

almico8 

Most times I do. You don't get to read all the stuff I don't post.

tomato coupe

We're all thankful for that.

almico8 

Ask yourself, "why am I still reading this thread?" Then answer that question.