Brompton G Line (20" Gravel Bike)
09-26-24, 06:34 AM
#101
Senior Member
I'm with Ron on team derailer. My experience with an Alfine 8 was on a BF Silk I had, and another bike I test rode somewhere. In both cases, it felt like I was pedaling a coffee grinder. Just really uninspiring. I much prefer simpler, lighter, easier to service derailer gears.
One key consideration in favor of RD that you have overlooked is price. That Alfine 11 IGH alone is about $400.
I do think you vastly overstate the problems with RD. Earlier you said that they were messy when taking the wheel off. They are not really, and I even showed you proper technique. And it highlights the way you exaggerate the perceived problems with RD. I also think you overstate, way overstate the need for RD maintanaince. My experience with upper mid-range Shimano RD (e.g. Deore M6000 and Zee M640) is the opposite. They are remarkably robust, requiring viryually no re-adjustment or service once dialed in initially. Heck, you can go for several months with not a single, not one inaccurate shift. It is quite remarkable, in fact, how good Shimano has had it dialed in with their RD drivetrains for many years now. YMWV of course, if you still using ghetto Altus RD like the one once installed on the Storm.
And this shifting while stopped business is a non issue. Seasoned cyclists will have learned to shift instinctively, as an inmate reflex almost. Who needs to shift while stopped on an RD? Only noobs, really. Being in and anticipating the proper gear is part and parcel of good cycling technique that one learns -- or ought to have learned -- and internalizes early on. Boasting about the ability to shift at a standstill is rather like boasting about being able to do arithmetic on a calculator. I wouldn't go about broadcasting that "ability".
Yet another unmentioned strike against IGH is that it's hardly road-side, field serviceable.
Look, we get you like IGH. We get it. But is it technically, functionally preferable once all factors are considered? The burden of that argument is on you.
I do think you vastly overstate the problems with RD. Earlier you said that they were messy when taking the wheel off. They are not really, and I even showed you proper technique. And it highlights the way you exaggerate the perceived problems with RD. I also think you overstate, way overstate the need for RD maintanaince. My experience with upper mid-range Shimano RD (e.g. Deore M6000 and Zee M640) is the opposite. They are remarkably robust, requiring viryually no re-adjustment or service once dialed in initially. Heck, you can go for several months with not a single, not one inaccurate shift. It is quite remarkable, in fact, how good Shimano has had it dialed in with their RD drivetrains for many years now. YMWV of course, if you still using ghetto Altus RD like the one once installed on the Storm.
And this shifting while stopped business is a non issue. Seasoned cyclists will have learned to shift instinctively, as an inmate reflex almost. Who needs to shift while stopped on an RD? Only noobs, really. Being in and anticipating the proper gear is part and parcel of good cycling technique that one learns -- or ought to have learned -- and internalizes early on. Boasting about the ability to shift at a standstill is rather like boasting about being able to do arithmetic on a calculator. I wouldn't go about broadcasting that "ability".
Yet another unmentioned strike against IGH is that it's hardly road-side, field serviceable.
Look, we get you like IGH. We get it. But is it technically, functionally preferable once all factors are considered? The burden of that argument is on you.
09-26-24, 07:18 AM
#102
Senior Member
A Rolhoff G line would be cool, and I’m sure someone will do it. Alfine 11 has worked great for me, including on our recent family tour of 700kms with a very low 22 gear inch granny gear setup. I’m 90kgs stark naked and I rode the bike up some very steep hills fully loaded, including a 2000m climb up a volcano where I was standing and mashing hard up serious grades.
But on an ebike with a mid motor with a 85Nm torque, things are different !
And this is a major commercial problem for Shimano since nowadays, the biggest market for IGH is ebike. Currently, Shimano has only one IGH usable for ebike, the last released Nexus 5, but its only 5s with a narrow gear inch range.
09-26-24, 07:53 AM
#103
Aging hipster
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 868
Bikes: Origami Swift, Surly Ogre, IRO Mark V Pro, home made bamboo cargo bike, eddy merckx corsa extra, Airnimal Joey commute, UGADA Tikit
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I think that the current version of Alfine 11 has no problem on a non assisted bike.
But on an ebike with a mid motor with a 85Nm torque, things are different !
And this is a major commercial problem for Shimano since nowadays, the biggest market for IGH is ebike. Currently, Shimano has only one IGH usable for ebike, the last released Nexus 5, but its only 5s with a narrow gear inch range.
But on an ebike with a mid motor with a 85Nm torque, things are different !
And this is a major commercial problem for Shimano since nowadays, the biggest market for IGH is ebike. Currently, Shimano has only one IGH usable for ebike, the last released Nexus 5, but its only 5s with a narrow gear inch range.
(and after using and loving her 20” Mint trifold for the ride quality and easy compact fold, but not for the skinny tires or the temperamental L-Twoo derailleur, she wants a G line 😅
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09-26-24, 05:15 PM
#104
Rohloff cost much more than an Alfine 11 but these two hubs cannot be compared:
- Rohloff has a wider gear inch range with more gears.
- Rohloff has equi-spaced gears while Alfine 11 is actually a 10 gears + 1 ultra low gear hub.
- Rohloff is guaranteed by its manufacturer up to 130Nm torque while Shimano doesn't specify any max torque.
- Rohloff allow gear change under load.
- Rohloff gear indexing is in the hub, not in the lever, there is never the need to adjust the gear indexing while on the Alfine 11 indexing is in the special rapid fire lever (this lever is specific for the Alfine 11 since the cable pull of the Alfine 11 is different on its different gears).
- Rohloff is symmetric with spokes of the same length on both sides while Alfine 11 is slightly asymmetric with different spoke length of its two sides.
- Several Rohloff users have ridden more than 100000km with their hub.
- Rohloff has a wider gear inch range with more gears.
- Rohloff has equi-spaced gears while Alfine 11 is actually a 10 gears + 1 ultra low gear hub.
- Rohloff is guaranteed by its manufacturer up to 130Nm torque while Shimano doesn't specify any max torque.
- Rohloff allow gear change under load.
- Rohloff gear indexing is in the hub, not in the lever, there is never the need to adjust the gear indexing while on the Alfine 11 indexing is in the special rapid fire lever (this lever is specific for the Alfine 11 since the cable pull of the Alfine 11 is different on its different gears).
- Rohloff is symmetric with spokes of the same length on both sides while Alfine 11 is slightly asymmetric with different spoke length of its two sides.
- Several Rohloff users have ridden more than 100000km with their hub.
Rohloff has a stellar reputation for reliability and durability. But on a long tour, I would probably go external gearing, for ease of service anywhere if needed. However my current setup is 400%. Rohloff is 526% IIRC, which may be greater than I could get on my 20" wheels in the higher end.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 09-26-24 at 05:21 PM.
