Ron Damon

Don't get defensive. My earlier comment was not about the BF or about BF bikes generally. I didn't say that the BF bike in question is sluggish. Instead, my comment went to the issues that, once again, one man's stable is another man's sluggish, and that generally a longer wheelbase does not necessarily mean better or preferable. IOW it's more complicated than that.

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john m flores 

The thread is about a Bike Friday and I was talking about a Bike Friday when you commented on wheelbase.

Context clues.

Duragrouch

Looking at the gap between rear tire and seat tube on the older BF, it does appear they have more wheelbase than my Dahon Speed; Notably, I cannot ride no-handed, I suspect the geometry is very similar to the Zizzo in both wheelbase and fork trail, as I think the Zizzo was patterned after the Dahon bifolds.

Following is a published chart for the BF All-Packa geometry:


I inquired to Bike Friday whether the NWT had the same geometry, as if so, if I bought an All-Packa but then fit smaller tires, I would be reducing the trail. Or, was the All-Packa geometry designed for the larger tires? Seems the latter; From BF:

I haven't done a super accurate fork measurement on the Speed, but just laying a straightedge along the fork, I think it may have less trail than a BF NWT, most certainly less than typical bikes that have over 50mm trail. Notably, BF also said:

Well, I think they are lower trail, which surprises me. I had thought they would be a touch larger trail than larger wheel bikes, to equal steering stability, but not. My guesses on reasons for this are a) Designed for loaded touring so heavy fork load, and more trail would add to heavy steering, and/or b) Too much trail on a smaller wheel, more quickly curving away from the pavement, might have too much wheel flop when stopped or at low speeds.

Duragrouch

Yeah it is a good deal, but a half day drive each way, and it doesn't have discs. However it's for sale in BF's hometown, so I'd call and see how much a retrofit to the fork and seatstay would cost. But then that would also require new wheels, discs, calipers, and levers. And a new 2X wide crank on 110 BCD to get the 34T low I'd need. By the time I'd be done with it, I'd be above my threshold for buying used versus new.

I'm set currently for a local or train bike. If I need a better flying bike, I'll probably do as @ChiapasFixed and do a 20" trifold Mint with discs, his looks great.

john m flores 

I am curious about those 20" trifolds but I simply have too many bikes. I've never ridden a Brompton - I wonder how the 20" versions ride?

We bought a used Pocket Crusoe and I converted it to flat bars. So we spent money on a new stem (not the gooseneck it came with) plus bars and shift/brake controls. It's a really good travel bike now and handles a front load really well. It handled rough and muddy farm roads like a champ.

I think that I prefer v-brakes for putting in a suitcase. With a disc, I removed the front disc and put it in a protective cardboard sleeve. Not a big deal but just another step in putting the bike together and putting it away. Discs of course have their advantages in the wet but good v-brakes are still quite good.

Duragrouch

On @ChiapasFixed's big travel thread, either the disc Mint or disc Storm 20" was parked with a lot of mud on the rims, and I noted my envy of that, not needing to worry about the mud. Because it really eats rims. The hard steel discs, not so much. For a frequent folder that requires packing, I could see the advantage of rim brakes. But otherwise, I hope to upgrade to discs. I did a calculation over a month ago that showed the heat affect was way larger than just the ratio of rim diameter between small and large wheels; You have the higher rim pad thrust, PLUS the smaller diameter heat sink, and that explained my 20" heating up enough on a steep 250' (vertical) descent, using only the rear brake as the front was already concaved sidewalls from wear, and it broke a driveside spoke right at the bottom due to rim heat expansion combined with high driveside tension and short spokes (less elastic). I'll be happier when I have a disc bike, despite higher component costs like disc pads.

RoadWearier

Well to add to the confusion this one came up for $250. Plus are the gear inches. It's very hilly where I live and the added gears would help. The negatives are folding and unfolding aren't as elegant as the Zizzo. The owner is 5'8 with a 32 inseam. I'm 5'10 with a 33 inseam. I know these bikes aren't one size fits all like the Zizzo so that's a concern. This bike is 4 hours away from me but I'll be headed vaguely in that direction for work on Sunday. It will still be 2 hours further out


https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/906799181261518/?mibextid=dXMIcH

Here is the link. Looks like the same Era. Shimano 600 group, apparently.

john m flores 

Wow, it's an older bike with an older drivetrain but if it still works that would be a deal! The seat height will likely be fine for you and your upper body will likely be more upright than the previous owner. If you're not used to drop bars, that will probably be helpful for you. If you needed too, Bike Friday can make a new, adjustable stem to help you dial in the fit.

Note that the Pocket Rockets typically use slightly larger 20" wheels (ETRTO 451 vs 401) so you'll be limited to relatively narrow tires, 1 1/8" and narrower. But it will feel like a ... rocket ... compared to the Zizzo, if that's what you want.

From the pictures, it looks like a pretty clean bike, used mostly for trips vs. local rides. Would not be too expensive to upgrade the drivetrain or even convert to flat bars. You'd be hard-pressed to find a Bike Friday for less.

Let us know what you end up doing!

RoadWearier

Ok! I'll go check it out Sunday!

RoadWearier

Well that bike sold already. There is a Tern C8 I might look at. Although the folding bike reviewer on YouTube really bashed Tern. Can't remember his name but he rides a lot of Bromptons and seems to like Zizzo

Duragrouch

Darn, that one looked like a good deal, if didn't need much replaced. But keep looking. There are more Bike Fridays for sale on Craigslist than 20" Dahons.

john m flores 

If you're looking for a bike for exploring an area with (i.e., flat bars vs. drop bars for fitness riding), a Bike Friday like this might be good:
https://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/b...775304666.html

It's got a triple front derailleur too, great for any hills you might encounter while exploring.

Duragrouch

Oh that's a huge deal IMO, especially with discs.

I expected to see a Diamond Llama, but that came later. Very weirdly, now that I see early NWTs with diamond frames.

The missing "top headset bolt", I recall from a blogger on a BF that the locking collar for the headset area broke easy and was underdesigned; He improvised a different solution. Not sure if same part.

Hollow spindle crank with external bearings is a plus! Hard to find in 3X these days, especially in 5-arm.