joesch

Doohickie I would checkout this great LBS in your city https://www.bikemart.com/about/fort-...ead-pg3430.htm
Also, you may like a Surly gravel bike based on what I read.
I have one and its a great all-around bike and I see many on the Trinity trails at FW

Maelochs

A lot of these are old debates and really, by now everybody should know better.

No material has intrinsic qualities which override design---a bike can be stiff or flexible or anything in between, no matter what it is made of.

I own an '83 Cannondale ST 500 and a 2017 Fuji Sportif--AL frames, both. (The age of the C'dale pretty much makes a joke of the people who claim Al doesn't last, by the way.) With hydroforming Al can be shaped almost as well as CF so that an Al frame can be light and still have both flex and stiffness as needed. The C'dale has a steel fork, the Fuji has CF .... both ride well on similarly sized tires .....

I also own steel and CF bikes ... so when I hear that one frame material rides a certain way ... I know I am dealing with prejudice or ignorance so i just ignore it.

There is everything from actual research (mentioned above) to multiple anecdotes .... whatever.

Steel with a steel or CF fork is also good---I also own an '84 Raleigh. Nowadays though, good steel is probably more expensive (slightly) .... still an option though.

@Doohickie----I'd say anything Al with a CF fork and 105 which Fits you will work well.

I like CF but one thing to note, not a lot of CF bikes are strong enough to carry most racks. Maybe for really light loads, but I'd hate to have to worry about whether I had overloaded every time I went riding. If a rack and trunk or panniers are in your future ... Al wins again.

Pretty sure no one sells bikes with a Brooks saddle (or not affordable bikes.) That will be aftermarket. Gearing---50-34x11-34 is probably standard but if you want there are 46-30 chain rings. Plenty low gearing for gravel and road.

A lot of people like the Domane ... you might too.

cyclezen

We all have our preferences, and considering the suggestions, they may open new thoughts and considerations for you...
I have my preferences, so I won't go there; but don;t discount any frame material, until you look deeper into it and
"TEST RIDE"
is a test ride that important to a decision? No, but it does help, especially if you want to ride it out the door with the components that come on it.
Gravel bikes are very versatile, BUT they also come equiped to be 'gravel bikes' with wheels and tires that are aimed at that multi-surface riding, which may not suit you - or it may...
Given your size, the sturdy nature of Gravel might be a desirable thing, or it may not matter...
Test ride, make your notes, mental or written, for sizing or whatever'
August is a great time to buy - the sales start and if you decide early enough the size selection will be best.
Once decided, I wouldn't wait at that point, because if your choice sells out in the size you want, then it comes down to choice #2 or 3 or further down the line.
I know I'll catch some flack with this statement... but, for me, I would not buy a bike without a CF fork. I have plenty of steel, some Alu, a carbon fork is key to me...
Given your size, the now larger size road tire assortment may also be a consideration - 30 - 32 for road, maybe 38-42 for a cross application to 'gravel'...
Test ride - especially trying / comparing 'Gravel' to 'Endurance Road' might help bring some preferences...
Many dealers are not averse to allowing a few miles of test ride, not just a quick cruise around the parking lot...
Ride On
Yuri

noglider 

@joesch recommends you try a Surly. I don't picture you enjoying that, but I'm speaking from my prejudice. Surlys are solid bikes, well made and durable, nice handling, but they're quite heavy.

bikemig 

Surlys remind me of old school mountain bikes. They were dependable but by and large not particularly light.

Maelochs

I second recommendations for a CF fork, particularly on an Al frame.

I also recommend waiting and saving. The more bike you can buy, the more years you will be able to ride it with joy and satisfaction.

Buying a new bike which starts out leaving you underwhelmed means for the next few years you will start every ride regretting your choice. Saving for a few more months and buying a bike that has what you want, even if it requires scrimping on some luxuries to get there, will pay off every time you ride.

Buying a bike is an investment. A good bike lasts, and it pays dividends in health and pleasure. A bad investment either doesn't pay or costs.

grcolts

The Trek looks great. Last year I sold two bikes a road bike and a touring bike. I used the money to purchase an adventure or gravel bike to replace them. It was a great decision as it cut cost of owning two bikes. Since, at the time there was no Trek dealer close to me so I ended up getting a Jamis Renegade. It fits me very well and it is a joy to ride. So, enjoy your new bike!

Doohickie

Today was test ride day. I took out a Trek Domane SL 5 Gen 4 Carbon and a Domane AL 5 Gen 4 Aluminum. Both of them are huge upgrades over my current ride. I got used to the shifting reasonably quickly (my current bike has Barcons on the bar ends). I will say that I could definitely feel the difference in ride quality; the carbon bike was just much smoother on rough roads. However, the color of the aluminum frame I really like (I know, secondary to ride quality, but still...)

Checking through Trek's website, I realized that I forgot about the Checkpoint. The SL 5 in that line is only $3,000. That might be worth a test ride.

Now I have to decide if the $1500 price difference is worth it. I will probably go to Bike Mart and see if they can sell me a Domane SL 5 Gen 4 at a better price. Competition is good...

Aluminum in Lichen Green


Carbon in Mercury

Mtracer

I have the Domane SLR and I think the SL frame has the same down-tube storage. While this feature is certainly not a reason itself to spend more, it's a nice feature. Much more useful than I thought it would be. In the end, I can fit all the needed stuff that would otherwise go in a saddle bag such as mini-pump, CO2, spare TPU tube, multi-tool etc. I like not having the bag hanging under the saddle.

Obviously $1,500 is a big jump ($2,000 to $3,500) but I don't think you would regret spending more and you might very well regret not splurging a little. In the future, you can always upgrade things like wheels and even groupset components, but the frame is the bike.

The almost 2 lb difference in weight is significant by bike standards. And sure, it's a fraction of your body weight, but for some reason weight on the bike vs body is more noticeable, if not actually something that affects climbing performance.

I think both bikes look nice, though certainly different.

I think I already posted in this thread a while back and probably said this. Do yourself a favor and get some 32 mm Continental GP 5000 S TR tubeless tires. I weigh almost 200 lbs and run 52/55 PSI front/rear and it's fast and very comfortable.

Enjoy your new ride, whichever you choose.

Doohickie

So I'm finding out that for the bikes I'm looking at, some are set up at the shop with tubeless. If I go that route, what do I need to know?

Mtracer

To start you'll need sealant and a plug kit.

Main thing is you'll want to keep the sealant topped off. It will dry out over time. Some people can go months, I need to add a bit every 4-6 weeks. So, you'll need sealant and a way to add it. I prefer injecting sealant through the valve stem. I really like this injector:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I made a little dipstick. I remove the valve core, slid the dip stick in to check how much sealant I have. Usually add some since I have the valve core removed. Ask the shop how much they put in and then measure it soon so you have an idea how that shows on the dip stick. For my road tubeless tires in the 28-32 mm width range, I get about 3/8" on the dipstick with 1.5-2 oz of sealant. Something in that range.

You'll also want to have plugs to insert in the tire if a puncture is too large for just the sealant to plug. This is not a common issue. It's been over a year since I've needed to plug a tire. But it can happen and will at some point. Having a plug kit is the difference between completing your ride and phoning a friend.

I like the Dynaplug Race system.

Your tires will come with whatever sealant the shop puts in. I believe it is considered best not to mix sealant types. So, find out what kind they used. But, ultimately you may find something you like better. I prefer Orange Seal Endurance sealant. But many people have other preferences.

There are of course other things associated with tubeless. But those relate more to setting up a wheel for tubeless or replacing tires (mounting and seating a tire). You won't need to worry about that until you need to put on a new tire. There are plenty of online resources that can explain that.

Bottom line to start you need:
Sealant and a way to inject it.
Plug kit for large punctures.

Jughed

My aluminum Emonda ALR 5 is lightyears ahead of my old Cannondale (similar to a Klein) in terms of ride quality - light years. Even with the 25mm the bike came with, the old school aluminum road buzz/rattle the fillings out of your teeth ride is no longer there. The bike is smooth and stiff at the same time.

OP - the ALR bikes are great. 105 is great.

The wheelset that comes with these bikes - not so much. Aside from them being very heavy, I've had issues with the rear hub bearings going out (3 times), and the freehub needing to be replaced.

The ALR 5 is my workhorse. Approaching 15k miles on it now... aside from the wheelset, nothing has gone bad on the bike.

Doohickie

That's interesting. When I took out the two Domanes, there seemed to be a very clear difference in the smoothness of the ride. The carbon felt like butter across pavement; the aluminum I could feel every bump through the seatpost. If I had just tried the aluminum and bought it I'd probably be happy enough, but having ridden both and knowing how much better it is has me leaning toward the carbon.

I think I want to try out a Checkpoint; I can get one for less than the Domane and can probably live with the cost for carbon then (there's one at the Trek store for $2,800). But it looks like the carbon Checkpoint weighs as much as the aluminum Domane so I wonder if I'll be happy with that. The Checkpoint has a GRX RX600 gearset which is with a quick Google search apparently the Gravel equivalent of Shimano 105.

Mtracer

I don't think the difference between these carbon and aluminum Domane is specifically because of the materials. But that's a whole discussion/BF argument in itself. I think the difference is probably the compliance that comes from the IsoSpeed system of the carbon Domane. There is a difference between these two bikes, and of course that's all that matters. The why doesn't for this purchasing decision. It could just as well be comparing two different aluminum bikes or two different carbon bikes.

I have the Checkpoint SL5 and it is a fine bike, and has many similarities to a Domane. I chose a gravel bike as my first "real" bike because of the versatility. But then I got the itch for a road specific bike and chose the Domane.

I think there is enough overlap between the two bikes that you could set them up to be essentially the same bike with very little performance difference. But you should be able to setup the Domane with a more aggressive riding position than possible with the Checkpoint. And of course you can setup the Checkpoint with a less aggressive position than you can probably get with the Domane. Don't assume less aggressive means more comfortable though. For me a lower front is more comfortable.Of course, there's a limit. I currently have my Domane stem slammed and it just got more comfortable each time I lowered it.

You can of course always run two different wheel sets on the Checkpoint, a wider gravel set and a narrower road set. And the gearing is different.

I think the reality is the Domane is a road bike and in the end is a bit better for that purpose. And similarly, the Checkpoint is better for gravel and light off road use. The Domane is slightly more responsive than the Checkpoint and of course is lighter.

Be sure you're comparing apples to apples on the Checkpoint and Domane. The wheels might be different. So, the Checkpoint may not be a better deal.

In the end, if what you want is a road bike, I'd get the Domane. Rather than a gravel bike that works pretty good as a road bike. Both are great bikes.

Doohickie

Yep, that articulates a lot of my thought pattern. I'm leaning toward the Domane SL 5 over anything else right now, but I also want to do some due diligence, mostly because the Domane SL5 is a bit higher than I'd hoped to pay. I might try the Checkpoint and prefer it over the Domane which would be a win-win.

Jughed

I can't speak about the Domane, as it has that iso dookickie.

The Emonda's don't. My ALR 5 rides better than my other two carbon frames, I don't know how it compares to a carbon Emonda, but I'm guessing the difference is minimal.

I do know the price difference between the ALR 5 and SL 5 was $1300++ at the time. That $1300 got you a bottom end carbon frame and a bike that was less than 1/2 # lighter - with the same crap wheels and tires (and all the other parts were the same).

For $900 (on sale, they are $1100 normally) I put on a set of carbon Roval wheels, took over 1.5#s off the bike and made the ride quality even better/faster. For $100 I put on a set of 28mm GP5000's and made the ride even better and a good deal faster.

For less than the SL 5 price, I have a lighter bike than the SL 6.

McFlyRides

At the risk of completely derailing the direction of this conversation…
https://www.rivbike.com

Classic bikes done very well.

Doohickie

Ten years ago, a Surly would have been my top choice. Times change.

Doohickie

No interest in cobbling together something. I've been doing that for years. I want something show room new that someone smarter than me put together.

Doohickie

I thought the difference was quite pronounced... kind of shockingly so.

Having said that, I want try the Checkpoint, then I will probably try the other two again. If I would have had time I would have taken the carbon Domane out for a second ride and verify the ride was that much smoother than the aluminum. I guess I can still do that.

Wildwood 

Al bike vs carbon = Were the tires the same? Quality, width, pressure?

edit: The stealth Lichen Green is very nice.

PeteHski

ISO speed and carbon seatpost would probably explain much of the difference in ride smoothness. With some higher quality tyres it would be even smoother.

Edit: Just noticed that the AL5 has cheaper wire bead tyres, so that could also make a difference to the ride.

Doohickie

Yep, I'm aware of Bike Mart, our Saturday breakfast rides start in front of the Press Cafe next door. I've been working with Trek South FtW on Granbury; I live right near there.

I may get over to Bike Mart but unless they can beat the price of Trek on Granbury I'll probably go with the closer shop.

Jughed

Just throwing this out there.

The smart people that put together the lower spec Treks out there added crappy wheelsets - probably to increase profit margins or to steer someone into buying a higher spec bike. They are very heavy with cheap bearings and a crappy freehub.

If you don't plan to ride a bunch of miles - probably no big deal. I had nothing but problems with the rear wheel bearings and freehubs, starting around 2-3k miles.

Trakhak

At the risk of de-derailing the direction of this conversation:

Why It’s Impossible For Steel Frames To Be More Comfortable Than Aluminium