First New Bike in Decades
06-13-24, 03:44 AM
#26
Senior Member
My primary bike is a 2020 Trek Domane SL7 with Ultegra components, 50-34t front, 11-34t back. Di2 shifting. Tires are 32, frame can accommodate 38. About a 17# bike in size 54. Cranks 172.5 in this size. I have clinchers on it, but the wheels are tubeless-ready. It’s a good bike for me. I needed a softer ride for riding on rough roads than other bikes provide, and an easier gear to manage climbs to keep my cadence over 40 rpm.
My back-up bike is a Giant set up with similar geometry, saddle, pedals. I hate riding it. Even with the carbon fork, the aluminum frame makes it a harsh ride transmitting every bump to me. I don’t have an upright posture but I imagine if I did, it would be jarring to my spine. It’s heavier, negating the climbing advantages of a stiffer frame. There are trickle-down improvements in the technology - today’s 105 is likely similar to the Ultegra 10 years ago. But I hate the clunkiness of my old 105s compared to the smooth shifting with my Ultegra - especially with the Di2, and with the 2006 Dura-Ace I was spoiled by.
The gearing - more gears means smaller gaps between 2 gears. It is a big difference for me to go from my 34t granny cog to the 30t next gear up, but it’s tighter in the harder gears so you can more easily maintain cadence and effort and have the “right” gear available as % gradient changes.
I really like having the Di2 current gearing transmitted witelessly to my bike computer display. With the big range in the cassette, it’s otherwise hard to see if you get into the “right” gear at stops so you can get going without spinning out or having difficulty getting the pedals to turn. (On my old 10-speed it was easy - just downshift all the way). No more broken cables from shifters to derailleurs with the Di2. Battery status for the Di2 can also transmit to the bike computer and I get alerts when it gets low. It’s rechargable with a proprietary USB cable to the bar ends port.
Most road bikes sold in Fort Worth are compact doubles (50-34 front), not triples nor standard doubles (53-39 front). Some sub-compacts are around (52-36 front).
I avoid riding on unpaved surfaces but the 32 mm tires can manage hardpack/chat. Supposedly with 38mm tires it would be reasonably ok for rides on gravel.
Neither aluminum nor carbon fiber are forever materials. Aluminum will fatigue; c/f will deteriorate if left out in heat/sun most of the time (as was my 2006 Specialized Ruby). Trek does a good job designing carbon lay-ups for strength and lightness, unlike budget brands. Also, it is possible to repair many c/f breaks unlike stories of how a simple break will total the bike.
The Domane is designed to be comfortable for longer rides, as opposed to the Emondo climbing bike or the Madone stiffer racing bike.
You can put whatever kind of pedals you want on these bikes, including what you use now. You might be able to get cheap flat test pedals from the shop when you buy the bike; but otherwise supply your own.
The Domane has attachment eyelets if you want to put racks on it. I think add-on fenders too. A quick-release rear rack probably is incompatible with the seatpost.
Cost? Not cheap. Entertainment value/mile is good. Right now mine is 60 cents/mile based on bike purchase cost. I didn’t have to get permission from my bank or money guy. Many people have much more expensive hobbies/pasttimes.
Please forgive any typos/auto-suggest words my phone has included in this post.
My back-up bike is a Giant set up with similar geometry, saddle, pedals. I hate riding it. Even with the carbon fork, the aluminum frame makes it a harsh ride transmitting every bump to me. I don’t have an upright posture but I imagine if I did, it would be jarring to my spine. It’s heavier, negating the climbing advantages of a stiffer frame. There are trickle-down improvements in the technology - today’s 105 is likely similar to the Ultegra 10 years ago. But I hate the clunkiness of my old 105s compared to the smooth shifting with my Ultegra - especially with the Di2, and with the 2006 Dura-Ace I was spoiled by.
The gearing - more gears means smaller gaps between 2 gears. It is a big difference for me to go from my 34t granny cog to the 30t next gear up, but it’s tighter in the harder gears so you can more easily maintain cadence and effort and have the “right” gear available as % gradient changes.
I really like having the Di2 current gearing transmitted witelessly to my bike computer display. With the big range in the cassette, it’s otherwise hard to see if you get into the “right” gear at stops so you can get going without spinning out or having difficulty getting the pedals to turn. (On my old 10-speed it was easy - just downshift all the way). No more broken cables from shifters to derailleurs with the Di2. Battery status for the Di2 can also transmit to the bike computer and I get alerts when it gets low. It’s rechargable with a proprietary USB cable to the bar ends port.
Most road bikes sold in Fort Worth are compact doubles (50-34 front), not triples nor standard doubles (53-39 front). Some sub-compacts are around (52-36 front).
I avoid riding on unpaved surfaces but the 32 mm tires can manage hardpack/chat. Supposedly with 38mm tires it would be reasonably ok for rides on gravel.
Neither aluminum nor carbon fiber are forever materials. Aluminum will fatigue; c/f will deteriorate if left out in heat/sun most of the time (as was my 2006 Specialized Ruby). Trek does a good job designing carbon lay-ups for strength and lightness, unlike budget brands. Also, it is possible to repair many c/f breaks unlike stories of how a simple break will total the bike.
The Domane is designed to be comfortable for longer rides, as opposed to the Emondo climbing bike or the Madone stiffer racing bike.
You can put whatever kind of pedals you want on these bikes, including what you use now. You might be able to get cheap flat test pedals from the shop when you buy the bike; but otherwise supply your own.
The Domane has attachment eyelets if you want to put racks on it. I think add-on fenders too. A quick-release rear rack probably is incompatible with the seatpost.
Cost? Not cheap. Entertainment value/mile is good. Right now mine is 60 cents/mile based on bike purchase cost. I didn’t have to get permission from my bank or money guy. Many people have much more expensive hobbies/pasttimes.
Please forgive any typos/auto-suggest words my phone has included in this post.
I've never believed that frames built with aluminum tubing differ perceptibly from steel and titanium frames in vertical compliance/harshness/comfort. As a consequence, after riding steel for 45 years, my favorite bikes have been aluminum.for the last 15.
Why? Aluminum is no more or less comfortable than steel in terms of vertical compliance, but it's superior in resisting torsional forces. I prefer the feel of a frame whose rear wheel tracks the front wheel perfectly, even when climbing out of the saddle. That attribute explains why owners of Cannondale aluminum touring bikes love them---they can be ridden out of the saddle without the annoying wallowing associated with a fully loaded steel touring frame.
06-13-24, 07:54 AM
#27
Full Member
Other reasons are lower elastic modulus and strength, cost, creep and even corrosion resistance. I have a 2018 Jeep Wrangler that needs to be repainted under warranty. All the aluminum panels: hood and doors have bubbling paint. The steel parts, hinges, roof and quarter panels are all fine.
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06-13-24, 08:19 AM
#28
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At my racing weight in the 1980's, I was 136 lb. At 72, I've lost a lot of muscle mass and now weigh about 118. As I said, my favorite bikes for the last 15 years have been aluminum, after riding high-end steel exclusively since the mid-'60's.
Luckily for me, I've always been skeptical about the claim that aluminum bikes ride more harshly than other bikes, so I never succumbed to confirmation bias (aka "that aluminum frame shook the fillings out of my teeth!").
Luckily for me, I've always been skeptical about the claim that aluminum bikes ride more harshly than other bikes, so I never succumbed to confirmation bias (aka "that aluminum frame shook the fillings out of my teeth!").
Last edited by bikemig; 06-13-24 at 08:22 AM.
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06-13-24, 08:20 AM
#29
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I've been riding a Trek Emonds ALR 5 since 2016 and the bike is still a joy to ride. Not sure if the folks that don't like aluminum have ridden a more modern aluminum bike, however, there is no harshness in my particular bike. I'm between 190-200 lbs. and ride on 25c tires.
06-13-24, 09:30 AM
#30
Senior Member
I'm pretty sure triangles don't flex any. I think the different feel comes from the harmonic dampening that steel or plastic provides over aluminum.
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06-13-24, 02:42 PM
#31
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Buyers-market today should only be better at end-of-season sales in August. Selection being not as good later.
Going to a new bike from older ones, I agree that a test ride is best. For many reasons.
The frame material becomes immaterial as tires get bigger, pressures get lower.
Doohick will doo fine. Patience and experience pay off every time. Only 61, .... he needs to look seriously at modern saddles tho'.
Going to a new bike from older ones, I agree that a test ride is best. For many reasons.
The frame material becomes immaterial as tires get bigger, pressures get lower.
Doohick will doo fine. Patience and experience pay off every time. Only 61, .... he needs to look seriously at modern saddles tho'.
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06-13-24, 04:26 PM
#32
Senior Member
Or it's a purely acoustic phenomenon. Bikes with large-diameter tubes sound different from those with smaller-diameter tubes. The early reviewers of aluminum bikes sometimes noted the difference, without accompanying complaints about the ride of the bikes.
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06-13-24, 04:27 PM
#33
Senior Member
06-13-24, 06:15 PM
#34
Full Member
It sure does. I'm too new to post links, but that is one of the big advantages of getting a custom frame built to the riders size and compliance desires.
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06-14-24, 12:53 PM
#35
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Nowadays, good frame builders (big manufacturing or custom) know how to build a bike that satisfies the requirements, using any frame material. It no longer makes sense to claim that a particular material will have a particular quality of ride.
I believe that for a GIVEN quality of ride (and load bearing), steel will be the heaviest and carbon fiber will be the lightest, with aluminum in the middle.
Aluminum is the lowest cost material, given the robotic techniques available, so you could argue that it is the best value in a frame material.
Carbon fiber and steel can be repaired if necessary. Knowledge of how to fix steel is more widespread than that of fixing carbon fiber.
Steel can be custom designed and built most easily because you don't necessarily need separate tooling for each design. But custom designs are rarely truly necessary.
The impression of how a ride feels is influenced a lot by rider fit and position and by the choice of saddle and handlebar and grips.
I believe that for a GIVEN quality of ride (and load bearing), steel will be the heaviest and carbon fiber will be the lightest, with aluminum in the middle.
Aluminum is the lowest cost material, given the robotic techniques available, so you could argue that it is the best value in a frame material.
Carbon fiber and steel can be repaired if necessary. Knowledge of how to fix steel is more widespread than that of fixing carbon fiber.
Steel can be custom designed and built most easily because you don't necessarily need separate tooling for each design. But custom designs are rarely truly necessary.
The impression of how a ride feels is influenced a lot by rider fit and position and by the choice of saddle and handlebar and grips.
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“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
06-14-24, 08:49 PM
#36
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A few others have mentioned how much they weigh, and I suppose it's a consideration. I'm 6'-2". In March I weighed 267. This afternoon after doing some "yardio" I was down to 235. I want to lose some more; I think I'd like to get down to 200-220.
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I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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06-14-24, 10:18 PM
#37
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I bought a CF Domane about a year ago. I'm still somewhat shocked I paid what I did, but there it is. Deciding factors over various options were fender mounts and room for wider tires (35 with fenders). It seems there are really good deals these days. Super comfortable bike. I rode it on a 1200km brevet, and the pictures prove I was smiling at the finish. Maybe possibly that was the 2 pints of beer I'd had in town just before the finish, but the bike was pretty nice too 
Domane gets the nod from me. 105 is fabulous IMO.
As far as aluminum. I have an AL fixie that I just rode on a 600 km brevet two weekends ago. With a carbon fork and 32mm, it was shockingly comfy.
So AL Domane also gets the nod from me.
For the steel-is-real concept, Soma makes a really nice frame in the Fog Cutter. Room for 38mm ez, fender mounts, carbon or steel fork available, disc. Build it up any way you want. Super bike. I have the previous generation, with 700c and 650b wheelsets, mix of 105 and ultegra, hydros, and it's a great all-rounder from pure road to dirt.
For an easy turnkey option though, just buy the Trek.
Domane gets the nod from me. 105 is fabulous IMO.
As far as aluminum. I have an AL fixie that I just rode on a 600 km brevet two weekends ago. With a carbon fork and 32mm, it was shockingly comfy.
So AL Domane also gets the nod from me.
For the steel-is-real concept, Soma makes a really nice frame in the Fog Cutter. Room for 38mm ez, fender mounts, carbon or steel fork available, disc. Build it up any way you want. Super bike. I have the previous generation, with 700c and 650b wheelsets, mix of 105 and ultegra, hydros, and it's a great all-rounder from pure road to dirt.
For an easy turnkey option though, just buy the Trek.
06-14-24, 10:51 PM
#38
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Trek Trek Trek... What? Trek... Why so much Trek?
Man I am sure glad I am not in the market for a new bicycle.
Considering the cost of all these new bicycles I might even consider getting someone to bring me a Peugeot RO2 or even a Liotto GR. Ha... Its only money.
I think you should stay with a steel frame and one not to modern or complicated. Some new type of bicycle incorporating modern durable components that does not require proprietary parts, tools, or maintenance. So what would ya get? ...Duh, This is hard!
Man I am sure glad I am not in the market for a new bicycle.
This thread brings me some real anxiety just thinking about it...
Man I am sure glad I am not in the market for a new bicycle.
Considering the cost of all these new bicycles I might even consider getting someone to bring me a Peugeot RO2 or even a Liotto GR. Ha... Its only money.
I think you should stay with a steel frame and one not to modern or complicated. Some new type of bicycle incorporating modern durable components that does not require proprietary parts, tools, or maintenance. So what would ya get? ...Duh, This is hard!
Man I am sure glad I am not in the market for a new bicycle.
This thread brings me some real anxiety just thinking about it...
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06-16-24, 10:06 AM
#39
Senior Member
I didn't see anybody mention Canyon but they'd be worth a look too.
You have the biggest bike shop I've ever seen in Richardson, and apparently there is one in Ft Worth too. I went in and I remember they had everything on display but don't remember what brands they had for bikes.
You have the biggest bike shop I've ever seen in Richardson, and apparently there is one in Ft Worth too. I went in and I remember they had everything on display but don't remember what brands they had for bikes.
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06-16-24, 09:24 PM
#41
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Trek Trek Trek... What? Trek... Why so much Trek?
Man I am sure glad I am not in the market for a new bicycle.
Considering the cost of all these new bicycles I might even consider getting someone to bring me a Peugeot RO2 or even a Liotto GR. Ha... Its only money.
I think you should stay with a steel frame and one not to modern or complicated. Some new type of bicycle incorporating modern durable components that does not require proprietary parts, tools, or maintenance. So what would ya get? ...Duh, This is hard!
Man I am sure glad I am not in the market for a new bicycle.
This thread brings me some real anxiety just thinking about it...
Man I am sure glad I am not in the market for a new bicycle.
Considering the cost of all these new bicycles I might even consider getting someone to bring me a Peugeot RO2 or even a Liotto GR. Ha... Its only money.
I think you should stay with a steel frame and one not to modern or complicated. Some new type of bicycle incorporating modern durable components that does not require proprietary parts, tools, or maintenance. So what would ya get? ...Duh, This is hard!
Man I am sure glad I am not in the market for a new bicycle.
This thread brings me some real anxiety just thinking about it...
If'n he'd suggested something else he seemed to want and would get the job done, we'd have probably gone along with that as well.
06-17-24, 08:19 AM
#42
I have a 10 year old bike with frame geometry very similar to a current 54 Domane. It fits 700c 38mm tires, and wider (42mm) tires on 650b. I use 38mm slicks (Barlow Pass Extra-light) for on-road and moderate gravel riding, and the smaller, wider tires with knobs for more aggressive single-track riding.
The point is the frame is very unlikely to hold you back. Buy the bike for optimal fit.
If the Domane frame fits perfectly, consider carbon as a possible upgrade, but good (not Bontrager) tires are what will really make the difference for ride quality.
If the Domane is a compromise (sub-optimal) fit, keep shopping.
The point is the frame is very unlikely to hold you back. Buy the bike for optimal fit.
If the Domane frame fits perfectly, consider carbon as a possible upgrade, but good (not Bontrager) tires are what will really make the difference for ride quality.
If the Domane is a compromise (sub-optimal) fit, keep shopping.
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06-21-24, 05:20 AM
#43
Here's an interesting article, written by a psychologist but including actual measurements of differences in vertical compliance between a titanium Lightspeed racing bike and an aluminum Cannondale racing bike, that convincingly attributes perceptions of the "harshness" of the tested aluminum bike to rider expectations, a.k.a. confirmation bias.
I've never believed that frames built with aluminum tubing differ perceptibly from steel and titanium frames in vertical compliance/harshness/comfort. As a consequence, after riding steel for 45 years, my favorite bikes have been aluminum.for the last 15.
Why? Aluminum is no more or less comfortable than steel in terms of vertical compliance, but it's superior in resisting torsional forces. I prefer the feel of a frame whose rear wheel tracks the front wheel perfectly, even when climbing out of the saddle. That attribute explains why owners of Cannondale aluminum touring bikes love them---they can be ridden out of the saddle without the annoying wallowing associated with a fully loaded steel touring frame.
I've never believed that frames built with aluminum tubing differ perceptibly from steel and titanium frames in vertical compliance/harshness/comfort. As a consequence, after riding steel for 45 years, my favorite bikes have been aluminum.for the last 15.
Why? Aluminum is no more or less comfortable than steel in terms of vertical compliance, but it's superior in resisting torsional forces. I prefer the feel of a frame whose rear wheel tracks the front wheel perfectly, even when climbing out of the saddle. That attribute explains why owners of Cannondale aluminum touring bikes love them---they can be ridden out of the saddle without the annoying wallowing associated with a fully loaded steel touring frame.
Frame material is pretty much irrelevant in respect of vertical compliance measured at the saddle.
06-21-24, 12:05 PM
#44
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Frame design can affect vertical compliance at the saddle in a meaningful way. You might surprised how much a frame's seat tube can flex. With some frames, you can see the seat tube flex when you weight the saddle.
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06-21-24, 09:33 PM
#45
Senior Member
I have a Trek Domane SLR 7 (carbon frame Ultergra Di2). I'm sure the AL version with 105 would be a great bike. note: The OP mentioned an AL 2 Gen 4, but that comes with Claris. You need the AL 5 to get 105.
There's one thing the carbon frame Domane brings that you don't get with the aluminum frame. The down-tube storage, Its great. I don't need a saddle bag or need to carry support items in my jersey pockets.
I'm able to fit a mini-pump, TPU tube, two CO2 cartridges & valve, tire tools. Tire boot, very small first aid kit, and multi-tool. I do carry my tubeless Dynaplug Race in my ride wallet for quick access.
Regardless of what version of Domane, or any other road bike, I can't recommend Continental GP 5000 S TR 32 mm tires strongly enough. At least if you're going to run tubeless. They are fast and comfortable. And 32 mm seems every bit as fast as the 28 mm I used first. I got 3,600 miles out of that 28 mm rear tire. I never even had to put a plug in those miles either. So, I think they are plenty durable.
If you consider a higher end Domane, I don't think there is anything that is must have. Shimano 105 is a great mechanical groupset. But things like carbon frames, carbon wheels, Di2 is always nice but very much diminishing returns. And of course you can always upgrade wheels later.
There's one thing the carbon frame Domane brings that you don't get with the aluminum frame. The down-tube storage, Its great. I don't need a saddle bag or need to carry support items in my jersey pockets.
I'm able to fit a mini-pump, TPU tube, two CO2 cartridges & valve, tire tools. Tire boot, very small first aid kit, and multi-tool. I do carry my tubeless Dynaplug Race in my ride wallet for quick access.
Regardless of what version of Domane, or any other road bike, I can't recommend Continental GP 5000 S TR 32 mm tires strongly enough. At least if you're going to run tubeless. They are fast and comfortable. And 32 mm seems every bit as fast as the 28 mm I used first. I got 3,600 miles out of that 28 mm rear tire. I never even had to put a plug in those miles either. So, I think they are plenty durable.
If you consider a higher end Domane, I don't think there is anything that is must have. Shimano 105 is a great mechanical groupset. But things like carbon frames, carbon wheels, Di2 is always nice but very much diminishing returns. And of course you can always upgrade wheels later.
06-21-24, 09:59 PM
#46
You gonna eat that?
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Considering carbon fiber. I'm going on vacation next week though so I won't be looking at anything before then. I do appreciate all the discussion.
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I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Last edited by Doohickie; 06-21-24 at 10:02 PM.
06-22-24, 04:49 AM
#47
Really? I can easily see and feel seatpost flex, but not the seat tube. I’m sure it does flex to some degree (my Canyon Endurace has a scalloped section at the bottom for increased compliance) but it is mostly the seatpost design that dominates the frame vertical compliance on modern bikes. It makes frame material pretty irrelevant in this regard.
06-22-24, 08:43 AM
#48
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Really? I can easily see and feel seatpost flex, but not the seat tube. I’m sure it does flex to some degree (my Canyon Endurace has a scalloped section at the bottom for increased compliance) but it is mostly the seatpost design that dominates the frame vertical compliance on modern bikes. It makes frame material pretty irrelevant in this regard.
The walls of a seatpost are often thicker and stiffer than the seat tubes they fit into.
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06-22-24, 09:06 AM
#49
don't try this at home.
28mm or 32mm tires at appropriate pressures are fast, efficient, and really soak up rough surfaces. Tires are way more significant than frame material.
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06-22-24, 12:42 PM
#50
Really. A Specialized rep. demonstrated this to me in our store on one of their new models (I don't remember which). On certain bikes, the seat tube may actually be more compliant that the seatpost.
The walls of a seatpost are often thicker and stiffer than the seat tubes they fit into.
The walls of a seatpost are often thicker and stiffer than the seat tubes they fit into.
There is another recent thread with a table showing vertical stiffness of a load of modern carbon road bikes. They vary in stiffness by a factor of about 5 and it was noted how much the seatpost affected the results. If you have a triangle with a long stick poking out of the top it’s not hard to imagine where most of the flex will occur, especially if that stick is designed to bend eg D-shaped or in the case of my Canyon split in half like a leaf spring. Obviously aero seat posts are way stiffer than round seat posts and that was clearly reflected in the results. The Pinarellos were the stiffest and I think my Canyon was the most compliant. Not surprising when you compare the designs.
