Kilroy1988 

Hello all,

I'm interested in learning about folks' experience with friction shifting modern cassettes, particularly 10-11 speed examples, which is something I intend to try out for the first time in the coming months. I came back across a "pro tip" from Jan Heine & company at Rene Herse saying it is not recommended because it is hard to find the right gear, which is something I'd taken at face value as being logical for some time now. However, this evening I stumbled upon a video of a fellow fitting friction shifter to an 11-speed cassette, and he stated how easy it is because you don't have to hunt for gears since the derailleur inevitably slips into the next one due to the tight spacing between cogs, meaning that that you're almost "always in gear." Now, this too sounds logical!

So, which is it? Is it hard to do because you can't dial in the derailleur to perfectly match up the proper chain line with the cogs, or does the chain just fall into place as you move in one direction or another without any real fuss?

Cheers!

-Gregory

P!N20

If it's good enough for Alex Stieda:

RiddleOfSteel

I'd say if you have the pieces to give it a try without wholesale overhauling the bike, try it. Shimano's Centeron upper jockey pulley moves laterally about a millimeter to each side, so you definitely have some help when looking to solidly engage a cog. I have run a 10-speed cassette with Retrofriction shifters and it worked well. Presently I've gone the opposite and am sorting out a 2x11 indexed down tube shifting setup on my Paramount using the internals from a Dura-Ace 11-speed TT/bar end shifter and the lever from a 9-speed Dura-Ace down tube shifter. Works really well!

delbiker1 

I have 2 bikes with friction shifting, both Shimano bar ends. One set is 6400 and the other is bs-50(?). I have used both with cassettes from 8 thru 12 speed cassettes, and 1 X to triple fronts. Shifting has been excellent in all cases, and getting it operating efficiently really easy. IMO/IME, once one gets used to the lever pull distance and feel, they all are fine, but I like the short travel for the cassettes with more cogs. I miss a shift occasionally, no big deal. Trim with the lever and keep rolling. For me, it happens with indexed shifting, also.
My main reason for having the friction is the low cost of having 11 and 12 speed options. The low maintenance and ease of use, and the flexibility of friction shifting, add to that appeal.

jamesdak 

I ran up to 11 speeds on my old Orbea and it worked great. It was using the wonderful Simplex DT shifters that had enough pull to cover the whole cassette. The RD was "upgraded" to an Ultergra 9 speed version. In my experience Jan Heine is talking rubbish in terms of not being able to find the right gear. If your stuff it set up properly and shifting easily and smoothly it shouldn't be any issue.

I've also done it with other setups on other bikes. Once or twice I had an issue with the shifters I was using not having quite enough pull to cover the full width of the cassette. I was able to correct that by using housing liner over the shift cable where it passes over the barrel of the DT shifter. It essentially gives you more pull.

That's what I had to do with the old Superbe DT rear shifter on the Team USA:

sloar 

I like friction shifting on 9-10 speed cassettes. To me it seems like you can shift quick and easy to the next gear since the space between cogs are much smaller.

blamester

I found you couldn't miss. Hperglide and close spacing. What put me off in the end was the lever position in the lower gears. Too far back.
I went back to 6 speed with 9 speed spacing so the lever position doesn't go beyond 90 degrees.
Worked better for me.

jadmt

I have one bike with 1x11 and microshift bar end shifter and works super smooth in friction mode.

John E

I have always run non-indexed ("friction" or "ratchet") shift on every bike I have ever owned. I like the mix-and-match flexibility, financial efficiency, ease of adjustment, and ease of use, coupled with a greater feeling of engagement with the process of riding the bike. I absolutely detest indexed shifting on the front derailleur, because it gets in the way of fine-tune trimming of the cage position. I have not gone beyond 3x7 on a road bike or 3x8 on the mountain bike, but I don't see where 3x9 or 3x10 would pose any problems whatsoever. I am not a fan of 1x10 or higher, when having 2 or 3 rings in front works so much better, assuming one avoids large-large cross-chain and, on some systems, small-small cross-chain, as well.

Classtime 

I found that 8 speed was a little fussy but acceptable using 1981 Super Record rear mech and shifters. Grant Petersen sells many bikes with friction 10 speed.

John E

I haven't tried more than a 7 speed freewheels with a Campag. SR of that era, but an 8-speed 12-13-15-17-20-23-26-30 cassette works fabulously with a 7-speed SunTour thumb shifter in friction mode and a (long cage) SunTour XCD on my mountain bike, with a 46-38-28 or 46-38-26 triple up front. .

northbend 

I rode across the country with friction shifting a campagnolo 10 speed cassette and have used 11 speed cassettes on it recently with no problems.

cs1

Any pictures or links to the conversion? Somewhere there was but I cannot find it.

-holiday76

Just rode cino friction shifting a 10sp with Suntour bar end shifters.

And a lot of rides before that.

Just don’t try hydraulic braking on center pulls and you’ll be ok.

Kontact

The last several years I have been experimenting a lot with friction. Mostly with 8 speed Hyperglide.

The derailleur, shifter and derailleur B screw adjustment all matter a ridiculous amount. What works great in some combinations are terrible in others.

79pmooney

I'm running a Campy 9-speed cassette, Mirage RD and Superbe shifters on my best bike. Love the shifting. Just got back from 5 days with it at Cycle Oregon. Best shifting friction I've ever ridden. Now the lever does fold all the way back on the large cog. I like it because it is positive proof I have no more to go to.

chain_whipped

Never tried 10-11 speed however super pleased with this franken friction operated by Modolo Krono composite levers on Campy mount.

9 speed / Dura Ace ti cassette with Campagnolo Chorus 53/39 rings, Camp derailleurs and a 10speed PYC lightweight chain. Though friction, it has nice light and precise feeling action. No over shift either when compared to older Campy of which sometimes required a slight back shift to trim. Other: Proper chain width is a criteria. So far impressed with PYC chain especially for the price. The founder formerly worked for KMC Chain.

amedias

Both descriptions are true!

Friction shifting 10-11 speed is very easy in that you can shift, and the gear will change very easily and modern cassettes and chains will make it a very smooth shift, and you can move up and down multiple sprockets with ease.

What you can't so easily do (at least until muscle memory properly takes hold) is shift to a *specific* gear as the lever movement is smaller and it's easy to accidentally miss the sprocket you want by mistake, and there's less feedback through the shifter to know when it has changed than with lower speed and older setups due to those nice smooth HG (etc.) ramps and modern chains.

The only way to know for sure if *you like it* is to try it, and try it for a good chunk of time in order to get used to it as new things often feel a bit off at first. Once you've worked out if you think it's good or not then don't let anyone tell you otherwise, it is after all your preference ;-)

Catnap 

i rode a 10-speed cassette with an XTR derailleur and Suntour Command shifters in friction mode for years, and the above quote captures the experience perfectly. Like the other posters on this thread, I was happy with the setup but it had some quirks as described.

Kontact

Why the Road Link? Looks like you have the B tension completely removed.

ascherer 

I experimented with a 10-speed cassette using a Nuovo Record derailleur and shifter. It worked, but it was just an experiment. As always - try it and see. What's the worst that could happen?