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For the love of Klein

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Old 09-18-24, 09:52 AM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by SleepyCapybara
Thanks for this! I wasn't aware of the very very early and very early Kleins. Gives me something to do research on. Gonna pass on the Aura too.
You can replace the bumber.
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Old 09-18-24, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by WaveyGravey
You can replace the bumber.
Hmm. Might have found something more interesting yet in a color that I have never seen? No idea what model either. The color has a purple/pink sheen to it even though it looks mostly brown. Hard to describe. Any idea what this could be?


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Old 09-18-24, 11:50 AM
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SleepyCapybara - That's a rather neat find there. The very complete and original looking Shimano 600 groupset places it in the mid-80's with 1987 being the latest possible year, making that a rather early and rare bike. It's probably a Klein Performance as those models had the attachment points for fenders and a rear like, just like this one. I think some of the early Kleins didn't have model decals, plus they sometimes get removed, so without it it can be tougher to tell exactly what you're looking at. However, my money is on this one being a Performance. Excellent bikes, typically high quality construction and with the attachment points for fenders and a rear rack, they make great all around bikes, basically a touring bike. Don't know what Klein calls that color, they had many different options.

The Shimano 600 groupset is high end quality stuff. Whoever bought this new paid a pretty penny for it. The bike as a whole looks to have been well maintained and stored indoors, a very clean example. If it's in your size, I'd recommend picking it up.
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Old 09-18-24, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Pantah
SleepyCapybara - That's a rather neat find there. The very complete and original looking Shimano 600 groupset places it in the mid-80's with 1987 being the latest possible year, making that a rather early and rare bike. It's probably a Klein Performance as those models had the attachment points for fenders and a rear like, just like this one. I think some of the early Kleins didn't have model decals, plus they sometimes get removed, so without it it can be tougher to tell exactly what you're looking at. However, my money is on this one being a Performance. Excellent bikes, typically high quality construction and with the attachment points for fenders and a rear rack, they make great all around bikes, basically a touring bike. Don't know what Klein calls that color, they had many different options.

The Shimano 600 groupset is high end quality stuff. Whoever bought this new paid a pretty penny for it. The bike as a whole looks to have been well maintained and stored indoors, a very clean example. If it's in your size, I'd recommend picking it up.
Thanks for the input Pantah, exactly the person I was looking for. Yes this is in my size and the owner just messaged me saying the color was probably called "rose" which to my eyes looks nothing like any rose I know of but pictures of such colors do look deceiving on monitors.
Is this one of those odd 120mm rear spacing frames? Also now that I am paying close attention, that fork looks like steel, though it is color matched with rest of the frame - so not an aftermarket unit hopefully.
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Old 09-18-24, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SleepyCapybara
Thanks for the input Pantah, exactly the person I was looking for. Yes this is in my size and the owner just messaged me saying the color was probably called "rose" which to my eyes looks nothing like any rose I know of but pictures of such colors do look deceiving on monitors.
Is this one of those odd 120mm rear spacing frames? Also now that I am paying close attention, that fork looks like steel, though it is color matched with rest of the frame - so not an aftermarket unit hopefully.
Don't think too hard on the names manufacturers give to colors, some are spot one, some make no sense.

Standard road rear spacing back then was 126mm which that bike probably has. Standard spacing on touring bikes and I believe early mountain bikes was 130mm which eventually became the standard road spacing in the early 90's. Mountain and touring adopted 135mm as the new standard around that same time.
If that bike has 126 rear spacing, it limits hub selection to old school stuff but there's plenty out there to choose from. If it's got the touring spacing of 130, any modern road hub will drop straight in.
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Old 09-18-24, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SleepyCapybara
Also now that I am paying close attention, that fork looks like steel, though it is color matched with rest of the frame - so not an aftermarket unit hopefully.
Forgot to answer this question, from what I know, Klein used lugged steel forks on all or some of their frames until 1990, that is very likely the original fork.
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Old 09-18-24, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Pantah
Forgot to answer this question, from what I know, Klein used lugged steel forks on all or some of their frames until 1990, that is very likely the original fork.
I don't think I've ever seen a Performance that didn't have a steel fork.
Performance models have quite a fan following - that long wheelbase takes some getting used to though.
This is from the 1992 catalogue - brifters already standard.



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Old 09-19-24, 09:16 AM
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Thanks for all the inputs guys. Keep you posted on what happens. I'm intrigued and excited to see the color in person.
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Old 09-22-24, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SleepyCapybara
Thanks for all the inputs guys. Keep you posted on what happens. I'm intrigued and excited to see the color in person.
Quoting myself for an update on this bike. I was able to acquire it today late evening. The color indeed is intriguing. There's a tinge of violet/pink in mostly brown base otherwise. In the shade it looks muted but in the sun looks beautiful. Hard to describe the color. My wife didn't see any pink in it but was impressed by how different it is.

Anyway, this is in far, far better condition than my Quantum and is equipped with full Shimano 600 group. The chainrings are "Biopace". Only after spinning the crank I realized those are oval shaped rings.

Interestingly there are no markings as to what model it is. The top tube never had stickers per the owner. No inscription on bottom bracket shell, no "Made in Chehalis WA" badge, no sizing label, no headtube logo either.
On the NDS chainstay near the wheel dropout a tiny embossing says "Kline P40D" - internet returned nothing on that search query. May be I need to look deeper. The seatpost is somewhat uncommon (and really short) 27.4mm with built in collar in the frame.
Also, all the bolts for bottle cages and rack mounts are color matched with the frame. The under bb shell cable guide too is color coded and looks like permanently attached to the frame.

In typical Klein fashion, fabulous welds. Make it look like carbon fiber.

And trivial but one of the top tube cable guide is unpainted aluminum. It's almost as if whoever did the paint forgot to paint it because it doesn't look like paint peeled off from it.

Pictures coming tomorrow. Oh and rear spacing is 127mm.
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Old 09-23-24, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott
I don't think I've ever seen a Performance that didn't have a steel fork.
I stand corrected. I know that they moved away from the lugged style of steel fork around 1990, my assumption was that meant all the models got aluminum forks.

Originally Posted by SleepyCapybara
Anyway, this is in far, far better condition than my Quantum and is equipped with full Shimano 600 group. The chainrings are "Biopace". Only after spinning the crank I realized those are oval shaped rings.
Biopace was a thing in the 80's and early 90's. Has something to do with where in the rotation the rider is and is not applying power to the pedals. Interesting concept and not the only company to make oval shaped rings but it ultimately didn't make enough of a difference for them to stick around.

Originally Posted by SleepyCapybara
Interestingly there are no markings as to what model it is. The top tube never had stickers per the owner. No inscription on bottom bracket shell, no "Made in Chehalis WA" badge, no sizing label, no headtube logo either.
Kleins were one of the few brands to not have any sort of headtube badging or markings, at least not until after Trek bought them.

Originally Posted by SleepyCapybara
On the NDS chainstay near the wheel dropout a tiny embossing says "Kline P40D" - internet returned nothing on that search query. May be I need to look deeper. The seatpost is somewhat uncommon (and really short) 27.4mm with built in collar in the frame.
Also, all the bolts for bottle cages and rack mounts are color matched with the frame. The under bb shell cable guide too is color coded and looks like permanently attached to the frame.
Oh and rear spacing is 127mm.
No help on the dropout markings, haven't encountered that before. The older Kleins have the serial number stamped, I believe, on the underside of one of the rear dropouts. I don't have my '91 Quantum with me at work right now so I can't double check but as memory serves, that's where it is. If you can give us that, then the model should be able to be decoded from there.

Built-on seatpost collars weren't uncommon back in the day.

Both of my Kleins still have the original paint matched bottle cage bolts. They probably just painted the bike with those bolts in place to keep paint out of the threads and it didn't make sense to toss the bolts after paint.

I doubt the cable guide is permanently attached, at most it might be riveted. A drill makes quick work of that but you shouldn't ever really need to remove it.

126mm is going to be your rear spacing. A dropout being a millimeter off is not uncommon or a big deal.

FYI, Kleins, up until Trek acquisition (and possibly started from the beginning?) had press-in sealed bottom bracket bearings and press-in spindle. The bearings are actually nothing special, they have the bearing code printed somewhere on the outer race and if you google it, you can get replacements online pretty cheap. I picked up a set a few years ago just in case. However, they don't tend to wear out quickly, they're high quality bearings. My 91' Quantum has a ton of miles and the bottom bracket bearings are perfectly smooth. The spindle presses in just like the bearings. Haven't needed to pull bearings yet but I'm sure it won't be hard if and when I have to. It's very similar to motorcycle wheel bearings which I've done too many to count at this point.
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Old 09-24-24, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Pantah
No help on the dropout markings, haven't encountered that before. The older Kleins have the serial number stamped, I believe, on the underside of one of the rear dropouts. I don't have my '91 Quantum with me at work right now so I can't double check but as memory serves, that's where it is. If you can give us that, then the model should be able to be decoded from there.



Originally Posted by Pantah
126mm is going to be your rear spacing. A dropout being a millimeter off is not uncommon or a big deal.
Posted a couple of pictures. The bike has been stripped to bits and I will keep the original groupset as it is. Though, I have read many people shoving 130mm spacing rear wheel in there and modernizing with latest groupsets. I remember someone even saying that Klein themselves installed 130mm hub wheels in 126mm rear spacing models for sometime. So may be that still leaves open the doors for upgrade to 10/11/12s system.


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