Hub and freewheel question
05-14-18, 08:21 AM
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Hub and freewheel question
On my most recent ride on my 77 motobecane super mirage I noticed a bit of a thud in my pedal stroke when pedal with not a lot of power and generally poor shifting which I’ve diagnosed as needing a new chain. Since I am going to replace the chain I thought I might as well go ahead and replace the freewheel as well. The previous owner said he had to replace a missing cog so since I don’t really know what all is going on there I’d feel better just starting from scratch. Here’s my delima. It’s my understanding French bikes used different threaded Freewheels however this bike has had the original rim replaced with an Alex x404 rim and the hub doesn’t have any markings so I know it’s not the oringal normandy hub like what is in the front. I’m assuming someone just bought a complete wheel instead of just the rim. Does anyone have an idea of what kind of 5 speed freewheel will fit? It’d be great if I can just buy something new with out having to search eBay for Nos parts.
05-14-18, 08:38 AM
#2
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Thing is that some french hub and freewheel models came in both versions of threads.
05-14-18, 09:15 AM
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First step is to allow us to identify the parts you are using.
Post a photo of the hub. Someone will recognize it, and I would guess that it is likely as not English-threaded.
Also, the identity of the existing freewheel, post a photo of the cleaned face of it, it may or may not be French threaded either.
With the Freewheel removed, the hub threading can be gauged as non-French using an English bottom bracket cup, and can be gauged as French using a standard 1mm-pitch front or rear axle. Meshing the threads in front of a lighted background like a computer screen will show if the threads mesh nicely or if the engagement rocks instead of engage because of different thread pitch.
A French-threaded freewheel will not spin freely onto an English-threaded hub, the threads will begin to interfere after a few turns.
Post a photo of the hub. Someone will recognize it, and I would guess that it is likely as not English-threaded.
Also, the identity of the existing freewheel, post a photo of the cleaned face of it, it may or may not be French threaded either.
With the Freewheel removed, the hub threading can be gauged as non-French using an English bottom bracket cup, and can be gauged as French using a standard 1mm-pitch front or rear axle. Meshing the threads in front of a lighted background like a computer screen will show if the threads mesh nicely or if the engagement rocks instead of engage because of different thread pitch.
A French-threaded freewheel will not spin freely onto an English-threaded hub, the threads will begin to interfere after a few turns.
05-14-18, 09:37 AM
#5
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Most freewheel manufacturer's stamp a thread code on the back of the freewheel body if it is non-native threading. For instance, Atom, Normandy and Maillard freewheels have no marks for their native French threading but have a rectangular punch mark if they are English threaded.
05-14-18, 09:45 AM
#6
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You, sir, continue to amaze me. Tip O' The Doctor's Hat to you!
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05-14-18, 09:47 AM
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First step is to allow us to identify the parts you are using.
Post a photo of the hub. Someone will recognize it, and I would guess that it is likely as not English-threaded.
Also, the identity of the existing freewheel, post a photo of the cleaned face of it, it may or may not be French threaded either.
With the Freewheel removed, the hub threading can be gauged as non-French using an English bottom bracket cup, and can be gauged as French using a standard 1mm-pitch front or rear axle. Meshing the threads in front of a lighted background like a computer screen will show if the threads mesh nicely or if the engagement rocks instead of engage because of different thread pitch.
A French-threaded freewheel will not spin freely onto an English-threaded hub, the threads will begin to interfere after a few turns.
Post a photo of the hub. Someone will recognize it, and I would guess that it is likely as not English-threaded.
Also, the identity of the existing freewheel, post a photo of the cleaned face of it, it may or may not be French threaded either.
With the Freewheel removed, the hub threading can be gauged as non-French using an English bottom bracket cup, and can be gauged as French using a standard 1mm-pitch front or rear axle. Meshing the threads in front of a lighted background like a computer screen will show if the threads mesh nicely or if the engagement rocks instead of engage because of different thread pitch.
A French-threaded freewheel will not spin freely onto an English-threaded hub, the threads will begin to interfere after a few turns.
05-14-18, 02:27 PM
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Hey, I had a Motobecane, the Super Mirage, either '77 or 78. Mine was french threads. I don't know if yours was and if you still have the original wheel.
If you have the original wheel, I would replace it if I were you. The placement of the bearings in the wheel caused mine to break axles like ten times. Any other wheel with the same spacing with bearings that are closer to the dropouts would be a big improvement.
If you have the original wheel, I would replace it if I were you. The placement of the bearings in the wheel caused mine to break axles like ten times. Any other wheel with the same spacing with bearings that are closer to the dropouts would be a big improvement.
05-14-18, 07:09 PM
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I finally got around to taking the wheel off. The freewheel is a SI 888 perfect made in Japan. And upon further inspection the teeth look pretty good so I may just replace the chain and keep it for now. However in a unexpected turn of events I decided on a whim to measure the space between the dropouts with a ruler and got about 4-15/16” which is 125.5mm so it looks like I have the option of going to a 6 speed freewheel in the future if I want to! Here’s a pic of the hub - 
05-14-18, 08:21 PM
#10
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If you're at all interested, there looks like a two letter date code starting to peek out from under the skewer in your pic. You can look it up here: Date of Manufacture of Bicycle Components can be used to date a bike: component dating
05-14-18, 08:29 PM
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I can only see one half of the innermost ring of the freewheel body myself (the QR nut is in the way), but if you tilted the wheel the other way then the other half of the edge of the inner body will or will not say METRIC on it.
METRIC equals French, and French-threaded Suntour freewheels sell for a premium because they are the very best and best-shifting freewheels ever produced with French threading.
I suspect that your bike got both a wheel and freewheel replacement at the same time, and that neither are French-threaded.
There is also a two-letter date code (at the 6 O'clock position) that is partially hidden by the nut as well, and that might tell you approximately when the wheel and freewheel were replaced. The first letter counts to or from the letter A in 1984, so 1982 would be Y and 1986 would be C.
METRIC equals French, and French-threaded Suntour freewheels sell for a premium because they are the very best and best-shifting freewheels ever produced with French threading.
I suspect that your bike got both a wheel and freewheel replacement at the same time, and that neither are French-threaded.
There is also a two-letter date code (at the 6 O'clock position) that is partially hidden by the nut as well, and that might tell you approximately when the wheel and freewheel were replaced. The first letter counts to or from the letter A in 1984, so 1982 would be Y and 1986 would be C.
05-14-18, 08:49 PM
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The stock hub that came with the Alex 404 wheels are made for modern standard 5/6/7 speed 126/130 with spacers and english standard thread so just about any freewheel you order new will work. Myself I would keep the Suntour if it has no major issues it looks pretty good and is a better freewheel than nearly anything you can buy new.
Last edited by zukahn1; 05-14-18 at 08:54 PM.
05-14-18, 09:06 PM
#13
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the angle of spoke crossing points to me 2x lacing, so not an original wheel. I think English/ISO threading.
05-15-18, 12:43 AM
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If you ever felt your freewheel needed a refreshing with full cleaning and rebuilding, check Pastor Bob's freewheel spa, he's a BF member and all around freewheel wizard.
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05-15-18, 05:53 AM
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The stock hub that came with the Alex 404 wheels are made for modern standard 5/6/7 speed 126/130 with spacers and english standard thread so just about any freewheel you order new will work. Myself I would keep the Suntour if it has no major issues it looks pretty good and is a better freewheel than nearly anything you can buy new.
05-15-18, 06:45 AM
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05-15-18, 08:14 AM
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05-15-18, 08:50 AM
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With the wheel mounted on the bike check to see if there is enough clearance between the last cog and the frame for the editional cogs about 5mm for each I suspect you could run a 6 fine without modifications but you may need to change the spacing and dish of the wheel for a 7. The Suntour v-gt luxe should have enough travel to handle a 6/7 fine.
05-17-18, 11:58 AM
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I’m interested in the shimano mega range 6sp. With the 14-28 then a 34t bail out gear. Wonder if the vgt luxe can accommodate that size gear. I read some post of guys using it with a 30t but not 34t
05-17-18, 12:38 PM
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it say 34t is the max cog.
05-17-18, 12:58 PM
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Most freewheel manufacturer's stamp a thread code on the back of the freewheel body if it is non-native threading. For instance, Atom, Normandy and Maillard freewheels have no marks for their native French threading but have a rectangular punch mark if they are English threaded.
) Try threading that FW on by hand very carefully. If you hit resistance, stop! Get a (or just borrow any) French thread FW and try again. It may also come to a stop. If that is the case, you may have an English threaded FW with slightly different thread contours than Shimano uses. (I don't have much familiarity with the French as my only French bike last saw a FW in 1973.) I know that screwing on Japanese FWs (specifically SunTour but I believe Shimano would be the same) onto many Italian (Campy being my experience) requires a wrench and forcing after the first couple of turns to permanently round down the "V" shaped hub cut threads to the rounded (rolled) threads of the Japanese FWs. Use lots of grease on the threads as you do this. It will only have to be done once, In the future, the Japanese FWs will spin on much easier.Ben
