FBinNY 

Yes, but neither is necessarily limited. The top speed and assist phaseout (where it exists) is achieved by the controller. So, it can have plenty of power for climbing or acceleration, but not be able to exceed the speed cap.

It's comparable to the top speed limiter fitted in many school buses.

JoeyBike

I get that, but my point was: If there was some national law limiting E-Bike speeds to 15-20 mph, then perhaps some manufacturers would use this as an excuse to make cheap bikes that barely have power to do the max speed. Or if the bike was capable of 30 mph but governed down to 15 there would almost certainly be a hack to get around the limiter. Just dumb guesses on my part.

FBinNY 

Both are already happening.

Duragrouch

Power is *everything*, a transmission can get you any combination of torque and displacement (RPMs/speed) that you need. Power is force times displacement, divided by time. Your i3S is fast off the line because it is geared for it, which makes sense, it not being optimized to run at 100mph. It doesn't have a higher speed because it lacks the power; To do so, the transmission would need to be geared for that speed, but then lacks sufficient torque/thrust to battle aero drag (mostly) as well as other frictional losses, without more power. This is why all automobiles have maximum acceleration near zero speed where the transmission provides the best torque multiplication, and worst acceleration as they approach top speed with least torque multiplication or even less than engine output with overdrive, and pushing hard against aero drag to boot.

Decades ago on a TV motor magazine, they tested a Cadillac Allante coupe roadster (front drive, northstar V8) against a Mercedes-Benz V8 coupe roadster; In the 0-60 test, the Allant was surprisingly the winner. Why? The Caddy had close-ratio trans gearing optimized for that speed range, as max USA speeds were then 55 and even now top out at 75 I think. The 'Benz had a much wider range transmission, it order for good autobahn cruising at speeds well above 100 without the engine winding at redline and still having reasonable fuel consumption while doing it. But that also mean the 'Benz engine was not always at peak output for power and torque. From 0-60, the Caddy thrust curves were closer to optimum, like a CVT. That same car run on the autobahn over 100, it would be closer to redline and noisy.

Heavy (class 8) trucks are gear limited, their max speed is redline in top gear, which is usually only slightly more than the speed limit. They have the power to go faster, but not the transmission, intentionally. Or, they have taller gears for lower fuel consumption, but are "governed" to a maximum speed.

XtrajackII

Full disclosure, I have an e-assist Big Dummy, front hub motor, Class 2, 500 watt, 20 MPH max. I'm also 64 years old, hence the e-assist. I went with a front hub motor, for ease of installation and or removal (if necessary).

I do understand the animosity towards Class 2 e-bikes, one jumped the bejesus out of me. It was dusk, I was on the recreational trail, which allows everything except actual cars. anyhoo, I was riding along, minding my own, going eight to ten miles an hour. All of aa sudden I'm hearing this weird buzzing sound, as I was trying to locate and identify the noise, it went zipping by me, attached to a Class 2 e-bike hauling **s. I was not impressed. Since then, I have seen at least three other instances of Class 2 riders misbehaving badly. Two were salmon, the third one was zipping along on the sidewalk.

As I mentioned I am a Class 2 rider, I am an advocate for having a throttle, as a safety issue.

I was riding with moderate traffic, four lanes, two or three feet of pavement to the right if the right line. I needed to make a left. I checked behind me, looked clear, went to go left, heard a horn, noticed a car I hadn't earlier. I mashed the throttle, saved my butt.

I realize that I was completely wrong, as to how I was turning left, instead of taking the lane and moving to the left, then repeating that maneuver, for the second lane on my side, then making my left turn. Even so, I believe the throttle saved me.

FBinNY 

As someone who's posted here opposing throttle E-bikes, let me be clear. I have no problem with these bikes, per se. However, I do have issues with how they're regulated, and how some ride them.

IMO the issue is that these bikes attract riders who really want a motorcycle, and ride them as if that's what they are. That won't change, and there is a legitimate place for urban motorcycles in the mix, so it's a question of management.

So, my idea is to create a category to include these, allowing a top end of 25-30mph so they can mix well with other motor traffic, and regulate them comparably with other motor vehicles. That's comparably, not identically, so at least registration with a license plate, and maybe an, "on demand" (no road test) drivers license which can be revoked for repetitive bad. conduct.

As it stands, there's no way to enforce traffic codes for the category, and that encouragesand indemnifies bad actors, which fuels resentment for the category.

choddo

Classic example of a driver who manages to find the horn quicker than the brake pedal.

I do wonder if you would have made that manoeuvre on a pedal-assist ebike or if the existence of the throttle changes your subconscious approach to riding.

Steel Monkey

*Standing Ovation*

john m flores 

I get the frustration with fast, wreckless ebike riders, but putting ebikes capable of 25-30mph to "mix well" with other motor traffic won't end well. A person on a 100# ebike going 25mph and wearing little protection other than a foam helmet is no match for a 4000# SUV. The rider will lose every single time.

I've been on 150cc scooters with full motorcycle gear (full face helmet, abrasion resistant and padded jacket and pants, protective boots and gloves) trying to "mix well" with other motor traffic. It's quite stressful.

JoeyBike

Just to throw this in the mix: I can sustain 25-30 mph on a road bike without a motor for about a mile on flat land and still air. I can do 18-20 mph all day. I don't do that on busy Rail-Trails, sidewalks, or pedestrian malls. I very well COULD, but I DON'T. None of this is the E-Bike's fault. Just like all the A.H.s who do reckless stuff in their cars and on motorcycles, it's all about the OPERATOR, not the tool they are abusing.

Steel Monkey

I mostly agree with that. But there are no (reliable/otherwise) tests for responsible personality/ownership. And, in the HIGHLY individualistic U.S.A. (not to mention invested capital interests) no test would ever be considered. My opinion: some toys should never be created lest we unleash Victor and his monster (again).

But this is all opinionated rhetoric, no?

choddo

You had to earn that kind of speed on a normal bike though and that long term process teaches a lot

john m flores 

Exactly. And while we whine about the reckless bicyclists and ebikers, the vast majority of us are reasonable and don't wish to put ourselves or anyone else at risk.

Forcing throttle ebikes into a sea of 4000# SUVs includes more parents on cargo bikes taking their children to school and normal folk just trying to get to work safely than the miscreants that we want to characterize the whole group as.

FBinNY 

We already have that with the current rules, with zero regulation. Adding a license plate won't make it worse for the user, but will offer an opportunity for some degree of enforcement.

We are approaching a situation similar to what that of mopeds 40 years ago. History will repeat itself unless we change something first. Reasonable regulations now is the best way to prevent unreasonable regulations later.

XtrajackII

I am willing to believe that the existsnce of the throttle may have subconsciously influenced my decision to make a left turn from the extreme right lane. I do know the proper way to make a left turn. I think a bigger factor was was the fact that the decision to make the left turn in the first place was kind of an impulse decision, I was passing my brother's place of employment and remembered that I needed to see him.

Either way I would have been at fault had I been hit.

Generally speaking if you didn't know I had e-assist you wouldn't know it from watching me ride. I am usually light on the throttle, no more than actually needed. I like to feel like I'm actually riding a bicycle vs pretending I'm a motorcycle.


Edited to add:
I'm not sure what the solution is. The behavior of the operaters is the issue not the capabilities of the e-bike.

I wouldn't have a problem with some sort of licensing, registration, age requirements and or training for e-bikes.