Doge

Bummer.
I really enjoy collegiate.

Ttoc6

I know. Collegiate always inspired me to ride a lot. I made my best friends in college through riding and I felt like a part of something this last year competing to keep our guy in the leaders jersey (even through all the adversity I had this last year as a racer) and then getting to race at nats was huge for me. A dream I had since I started racing in college.

I don't think, at this point in my life, I'll ever get to compete on a team like that again. Sure, I'm going to keep racing, but a series where I race with and against the same dudes every week, don't think it's gonna happen.

Feel like I'm writing a eulogy for my racing career. Definitely not over! I'm too much of a competitive person. And I've still got goals to achieve!

tetonrider

These arguments work both ways. I personally prefer racing a single stage each day, not because I'm incapable of racing 2 in one day, just that this amateur stage racing stuff is a hobby -- and a vacation for most folks. Getting geared up to race a TT at 9am, then not being able to wind down because I have to recover, rest, then warm-up again for a crit at 6pm, then wind down to race at 9am the next day is -- for me -- less enjoyable than either having 2 stages only or spreading things out to 3 days.

One thing I love about the Gila is that while it is a HUGE pain in the @ss (long drive for EVERYONE, spread out over 5 days + add 2 travel days + probably a day to acclimate), everyone is totally immersed in it. On the TT and crit days, you don't have to rush around the entire day, you can actually relax, recover, enjoy the town a bit, catch some of the other races.

For these shorter 3-stage events, it would be preferable IMO to do a Friday evening crit, a Saturday RR and a Sunday AM TT than Saturday TT & Crit, Sunday RR.

If you think the weekend thing is a problem most places, check out Utah: They get folks who will NOT race on Sundays, so you'll have a 3-stage SR on Fri/Sat, and then others will complain that it is not Sat/Sun. True story. (@Ttoc6 -- check Bikes4kids next year.)


Yeah, or having no rhyme or reason to bib #s, then getting a race scenario where someone happens to know the dude up ahead is in your category/age group but not his, so that is why he's not working. Dumb stuff like that is common.

Agree that it is a logistical challenge, but it is easy enough to note beforehand that if field x, y or z has <10 riders, they will be combined. I don't think the promoter MUST offer separate fields at all.

At a stage race last year the promoter combined all masters but awarded separate prizes (including GC) for 35-39, 40-49 and 50+. It was dumb.

This is precisely what I was trying to convey.

USAC's own rule (at least w/r/t upgrade points) is to only recognize people in the true order they crossed the line in a mixed race. If you take, say, a mixed Cat 2/3 field and score them separately, USAC officials later on will not know the race was scored separately, so that "3rd place Cat 3" that was actually 27th place overall isn't as it seems.

When you mix in W4 and M55+ it gets trickier, but IMO 1 race, 1 finish line, 1 winner. If someone wants to feel good about being the fastest person who is a Cat 5 or has a birthday in a month that doesn't end in "y", so be it--that's pride and can be played with elsewhere.

That 'weird stuff happens all the time' doesn't mean we ned to deliberately set the stage for it. When I think back on all the mixed field/scored separately races I've done, I can't think of a case where there has NOT been something weird about people working together or not working together or someone sneaking off unnoticed with "the break that only contains riders from the other group". I'm sure it is not universal, but it is often enough.

Well, I do think prize $$ for amateur racing is, largely, dumb, and almost any other use of the money is a better one.

tetonrider

i wasn't sure, so i spent a minute looking up some info from a past race bible i had (to see which groups started together) and USAC results.

that year, there were 2 start groups: 55+/65+ Cat 1-3 and 55+/65+ 4/5. the former had about 15 entrants; the latter had about 70. (i know a bunch of guys in the 1-3 -- strong dudes and good peeps... you'd like them.)

if you're a 1, 2 or 3, and assuming they run things the same way this year, i could probably get you in. if you're a 4/5 and the registration is the same, you're probably out of luck.

VoS GC is all about the TT. even in the 3s someone will lay down a fantastic time. unless they are terrible, they won't lose time in the RR or crit. (it happens, and i know a guy who won the TT by a huge margin (and would have won the 2s that year with his time) but was dropped in the RR).)

it's also known for being a big goal race for those guys who specialized in a flat, featureless TT, so even though it is February they will hit it HARD. it's not likely to be the kind of race where you can buy a TT bike over the winter, ride it a few times and WIN that GC.

i still recommend it, though. lots of folks travel far to race, and they are all FIRED UP because it's a new season and the past winter of training breeds optimism. reality has not yet set in for most of them.

based on the above, sounds like you are a 3; if you wanted to race the p123 field i could probably get you in, but racing the 3/4 field is unlikely; that usually fills up.

everyone is scared of 200 miles the first time, and surely you need to respect the distance; there are much harder things, though. i was in the group that hit the line together to set the course record (8h45m -- outsprinted, though), and that year i spent less energy than the first year i rode it, either alone or at the front pulling every group i was with (aka riding dumb but being stronger than all those who happened to are around me).

it's a special ride.

i stopped doing it as the focus moved away from the p123 race and more toward the fondo side. (i'm totally OK with the fondo riders, but when they failed to have wheel cars for us one year and another year our breakaway at the head of the course was literally PULLED OVER by a cop for not riding single file, that was the final straw.)

Ttoc6

Funny, I was complaining about this on the forums back in May or so about a SR I ended up doing lol.

The Steamboat SR is looking more likely, make a vacation out of it. Drive over Thursday night after work, find a place to set up and then drive back Monday evening. About 6 hours in the car for three days really isn't that bad. Would definitely be thinking just aerobars over TT bike though.

Ttoc6

So I'm not sure I want to drive out to steamboat anymore, but might be interested in doing LOTOJA now. Kinda just based on the type of riding I've been doing, seems like this might work out well for me. Any chance you can help me out? I'd do the 1/2/3 or the 3/4.

Doge

As flat as it is 7 miles out climbs 300ft. The return tends to be 1-2 mph faster.
https://www.strava.com/segments/3438723

Doge

This Sunday (Aug 13, 2017) is the National Championship Hill climb. Junior got big. So it is not going to be what it was hoped to be, but I love the area.

Ttoc6

The last race of season in Utah just got posted up.

https://www.bikereg.com/sojocrit

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/23588789

What a weird crit course. I've never done one quite like this, the roundabouts will be interesting, could see people sliding out if they get too aggressive.

They also posted the details of the last road race. 100 mi with Less than 3000 feet of climbing. Not typically something I would do well at, but we shall see.

tetonrider

yep.... the steepest part is, what, 1.5% for a blip?

always seemed to me the prevailing winds favored the return, too.

Doge

The wind is almost always from the west pretty stable 5-15mph depending on the year (one year it is 5, the next 15). I see it vary a bit time of day, but nothing really predictable. I have not seen it really gusty.
This is one of the few courses where all that yaw lab test data really applies.

aaronmcd

Would you do an 80+ mile road race on 5 hours of sleep? I had to stay at work late so I'm 50/50 on if I should rush to sleep or blow it off.

UmneyDurak

Yes, but then again I have issues.
Like going to San Jose Bike party last year, getting about 5 hours of sleep driving to Yosemite, hiking Half Dome then driving back to Bay Area.

tetonrider

sure. haven't you ever had trouble sleeping before an event? people do it all the time.

if you got good sleep in the days leading up to the event lack of sleep the night prior is not that big a deal.

doing some hard rides in the days leading up to an event can have a much bigger impact on performance, and you've done that before races, no?

good luck. have fun!

globecanvas

Sure, I wouldn't think twice about it. It's the sleep the night before that that really matters IMO.

topflightpro

Wait, you guys get more than 5 hours of sleep a night? That must be awesome.

I suffer from a bit of insomnia. I get maybe 3 hours of good sleep a night. The rest is tossing and turning and trying to sleep.

topflightpro

I've done a crit like that. The Roundabout was rather large. There was never a concern about sliding out or tapping a pedal.

Ttoc6

Most definitely would do the race. Sometimes thats just how the cookie crumbles. This past spring we drove SEA to Bozeman for a collegiate bike race. Pull into the homestay at about midnight. By the time I got to sleep after unpacking and everything it was probably 1a. Then the second car shows up and they wake everyone up unpacking. Then I toss and turn until it's 5.00 and time to get moving for your 11 o'clock race, but you have to be there at 7.00 for the earlier race. I said I would nap in the car before my race, but that didn't happen.

Sunday rolls around, drive home for 12 hours and class the next morning. Fun, fun.

mattm

[MENTION=349187]aaronmcd[/MENTION] did the race, as did I. Not sure how much sleep he got but I had about 4.5 hours last night, 8 the night before. Felt ok in the race (got west coast podium), but I always struggle with the right breakfast for these races that start at 8 AM.

It just ain't right, starting at 8 AM.

Could be worse, like in NYC - but that's just a crit at least!

globecanvas

Congrats on the podium*!