Steve B.

This ^

I passed on upgrading my wheels to carbon, didn’t want to deal with carbon pads, less braking performance, etc…. I can see carbon rims with disc on a bike designed for it. Makes sense with disc brakes, wouldn’t spend the money with a rim brake bike.

mstateglfr 

I can't think of a single person i have ridden with over the last 5 years that I can say would want tubular wheels instead of clinchers. This includes periodic cyclists, enthusiast cyclists, and regionally competitive cyclists.

Not a single one.

I would view a road bike with tubular carbon wheels as a worse value compared to the exact bike with non-name generic $200 new cost aluminum clinchers. Even if both were the same price, I would want the cheap alloy clinchers. So if the carbon tubular bike cost more?...well that'd be tough to view as any sort of value.


But hey- that's just me and who I ride with. Maybe your area has a bunch of roadies that want tubular carbon wheels.

2muchroad

The majority of frequent buyers on that platform probably don't know about the difference between tubular and clincher, that is why it's not my primary concern. They want high depth carbon wheels, that's what's selling.

But I'll take your advice and keep in mind that the spectrum of more educated buyers could be expanded by choosing tubeless or clincher.

My goal with this has been to invest the lowest possible amount of money while achieving maximum value. The ALR 5 with 300 series 2kg Alu frame, some nice CF wheels and minor upgrades will achieve that, hopefully.

I don't even know who started this tubular debate anyway, 85% of the wheels I posted here were clincher or tubless.

I just negotiated some more. Leaning towards the Princeton a little because the seller would include new tyres, rear Hub and a new, matching M5100 Casette.

Lambda Racing 55mm - 220€



Princeton Peak 45/50mm - 480€



Lightweight Meilenstein 40mm - 470€



Corima 32 MCC S 40mm - 650€

Jrasero

I agree but this is where the debate of, does weight really matter comes in and what benefit is there to a 12lb-13lb bike? I own an Aethos Fact 10r and even at 14.6lbs with pedals, cages, and mounts I will say that's kind of the lightest I would go because anything lower stiffness, aero profiles, and sometimes even lack of durability comes into play. IMO the fact that a semi aero all around race bike in the Tarmac SL 8 now can weigh 15lbs stock is insane and really puts the nail in the coffin for rim brakes for me. I think rim brake bikes are fine but if you are dealing with carbon wheels I would say they are pointless. The idea of delamination or frankly just wearing down a rim little by little from a safety perspective is insane and that's all to say rim brakes while in perfect conditions can be very good, once you add dust or water they suck. Listen hydraulic brakes are no walk in the park, I can go on and on about rotor rub, rotor and pad contamination, the cost of bleeding brakes, and the hassle of hydraulics with integrated cockpits but in the end of the day they simply are better. Again don't go and throw-out your rim brake bike but if you are buying new, rm brakes wouldn't even cross my mind

Jrasero

You are right it really depends on what type of riding you are doing that's why I will never say rim brakes have no place in modern bikes, however maybe this is just consumer anxiety but I hate the idea that if I only road flat bike paths that I would find myself in a situation where if a rim brake bike was my only bike that it would be suboptimal for descents on high elation rides or for winter or wet riding. IMO rim brakes are like FWD cars, yeah they are cheaper and lighter than AWD cars and most people only need FWD and people skilled enough can get by with FWD or rim brakes, however AWD or disc brakes for bikes is great when you need it and maybe you only need it on 10% of your rides but I'd rather have disc brakes racing down a hill at 45 mph as my rotors heat up and not my carbon wheel, but that's just me

mstateglfr 

If someone doesnt know the difference between tubular and clincher, then all the more reason why they should have clincher wheels- they have no business being on tubulars and dont know the costs/effort to maintain nor how to do it.
But you do you.

shelbyfv

Beyond this thread, we have Larry who unwittingly got suckered into tubulars. Also a guy I used to ride with. I expect it's not unusual.

SoSmellyAir

It sounds like the plan is to flip this bike on a platform that caters to poseurs.

tomato coupe

Poseurs or newbs. He seems to be interested only in maximizing his profit, even if it means hoodwinking some unsuspecting buyer.

shelbyfv

People will do what they feel necessary to make ends meet. I'm thankful I never had to make that particular compromise.

biker128pedal

It’s a Elmonda. Take a look at the Bontrager Aeolus 5s.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/e...ode=black_grey

2muchroad

Possibly, but it's not my job to inform a buyer which wheel/tyre combo might be more convenient to maintain.
The components need to be consistent with my description of them, thus functional and in good condition.
High depth CF wheels are in high demand, especially with people buying their first road bike.
Particularly on these kind of online platforms, the thicker the wheel the faster the sale.
Who cares why they buy them, the market dictates.
Those look extremely nice. How are they only $540 new?

Koyote

So you'll happily sell this bike to a novice who has no experience with tubular wheels and tires, and not even mention that these are different than clinchers?

You're not ethical.

2muchroad

I am selling this bike with a complete and comprehensive list of components, including the tires and wheelset.
Whether the buyer understands the intricacies of tubular tire maintenance is neither my concern nor my responsibility.
This is a sales platform not a forum, obviously it is expected that you research certain parts before buying them, especially if you're a novice.

TMonk

Hey just a small pro tip, a lot of models had otherwise equivalent wheelsets in clincher/tubular offerings, minus the rims of course. It could be a nice courtesy for you to explicitly mention that the rims are tubular.

2muchroad

I am, of course.
All parts are carefully listed, that goes without saying.

I think the contention made by some of the other posters here is that I have an obligation to explain to a potential buyer why tubular tires might be more challenging to maintain than other solutions, which I certainly do not.
As a seller it is my job to denote all the components of this bike and the state they're in.
Who ends up buying it and what level of research they've done about individual parts is obviously not my responsibility.

Koyote

It'd be considerate of you to mention to a prospective buyer, "Hey, these are tubular wheels...Do you know what that means?" After all, tubular wheels have not been common for many decades now; the sorts of novices who are most likely to respond to your ad might think that "tubular" means that they take inner tubes.

terrymorse 

I was this many years old today when I learned that "bike flipper" was a thing.

I'm a little sadder today.

2muchroad

That is not my responsibility. The fact that the tires are tubular would be clearly listed in the description. It is a forgone conclusion that any buyer expressing an interest in the bike would also be aware of said list.
I don't know if you've ever sold anything, but you choose not to read the terms of service at your peril. Conducting the appropriate research and carefully reading the terms is your responsibility alone.

mstateglfr 

You have made that clear.
And I agree it isnt your responsibility. Sometimes we do things even though they arent our specific responsibility. For example, you are listing out every component even though that isnt your responsibility. You are going beyond what you are responsible for doing when you list components.
So claiming 'that isnt my responsibility' when you are already doing things that arent your responsibility is...well its pretty meaningless.

Just say whats real here- you recognize tubular wheels wouldnt be a selling point to most who know what tubular wheels are, so you dont want to draw more attention to it.

2muchroad

The platform's terms of service require that sellers list any and all bike components individually.
But I would do this even if it weren't required, in the interest of full disclosure.
That has nothing to do with responsibility, it's a sensible thing to do.

However, confronting any potential buyer about an aspect of the bicycle which functions properly but may be considered undesirable by some is obviously idiotic.
There are countless bike parts which are liked or disliked for various reasons. Are you going to tell each buyer about those too? Clearly the premise of your argument is illogical.
That may or may not be the case, all I'm saying is that I don't have to draw attention to anything that is in working order.
Read the terms, that's why they're there.

shelbyfv

In the US we call it the Used Car Salesman Code of Ethics. People reveal embarrassing stuff so eagerly on the internet.

Koyote

Yes, definitely idiotic, because it would prevent you from profiting off of someone's inexperience.

2muchroad

There is a description listing all components clearly visible in every ad, you don't know what you're talking about.

Anyway, I might be going with the Swiss after all. The seller went down to 400€ and agreed to replace the rear hub bearings. Ultegra cassette 11-32 included, but the stock one is in better condition.
Initially, the whole Chinese rebrand story deterred me, but it turns out that was in fact a different model. I like the color scheme which will go great with the ALR 5's grey/black frame. I'm also replacing the Shimano 105 crank with a carbon one, so that will look nice together. They weigh about 1.5kg without tires. The bike would be just around 8 - 9kg fully assembled. Last thing I'll switch is the saddle for a carbon one I got laying around.

biker128pedal

I think that is for the front wheel. Also for the 5 I saw you'd have to hunt for them at a shop. The Trek site allows one to search shops.