chewybrian 

I am looking for a basic understanding of what electrolyte and nutrients are needed, and how much, as you roll past the century mark and beyond. I think you need: sodium, potassium, calcium, and magnesium (other?).

What is the simple and effective way to get the right amounts of these (and whatever else is needed), as you are riding, say 600k? Can you simply pop a few pills? The potassium supplements I have found say 3% of rda. So, do I need to pop 50 of those suckers, or what? I should note that I can not take simple sugar, so regular Gatorade is out for me, for example.

On to general nutrition... Should a person take other supplements before/during/after long rides? Do you need to load up on pasta the night before, etc? When riding centuries, I have been fine with solid food, without increasing my daily calorie intake: peanut butter on wheat, granola, almonds, etc. Will I need to take in more calories, or special foods, to go double century, or more without fading? thanks.

127.0.0.1

you need to actually eat a meal once in a while. them thar TDF racers don't do a stage without chowing down at some point. depending on how fit u r, eat a sammich/clif bar/banana every 70 miles, drink 40-60 g carb per hour otherwise.


it all depends. if you can do it on liquid then do it on liquid. but eating solids is what
you need to do on loooooooong rides


yes load up on pasta the night before.




you will get a thousand different answers.


---->the real deal, is go for some long rides and figure it out on your own.
bring cash and plan your route near stores where u can haz some grub in an
emergency. do a 250 mile ride in one day that will really tell u something

chewybrian 

Funny side note: I was searching the net, and found this FAIL:

RE: Sugar Free Electrolyte Sports Drink Recipe

Post By Dabhand (Guest Post) (08/05/2008)
* 2 quarts water
* 2 tablespoons sugar
* 1 teaspoon baking soda
* 1/2 teaspoon salt substitute (made with potassium chloride)
* 1/2 teaspoon salt
* 1 package Kool-Aid or other flavoring (optional) OR
* 2 teaspoons vanilla (or other) extract

Preparation:
Mix all ingredients together and refrigerate. Use the mix within 4 days.

CliftonGK1

I'm a Bars & Gels guy, personally. Starting about 60 - 90 minutes into a long ride, I'll switch from plain water to my nutrition combo:

- 1/2 to 3/4 Clif Bar per hour
- 1 Accel Gel per hour
- 1 or 2 Endurolyte capsules per hour, depending on how much I'm sweating.
- Keep 1 bottle with Accelerade, 1 bottle with water, alternate drinks.

It works out to roughly 250 - 300 cal/hr.

palookabutt

I'm still relatively new to rides longer than a century, but so far my per-hour calorie requirements seem to increase as rides get longer. For example, I seem to do just fine with ~2 bananas or clif bars for a 50-60 mile ride (maybe more if I go hard). However, I've found I need more than twice that for a century, especially if there are hills involved. I nearly bonked on a hilly (self-supported) century before I stopped and bought a couple of extra candy bars to finish the ride.

Is this phenomenon normal? Or does it subside with training? How about for longer distances -- 120 miles and beyond?

Randochap

Boy, this is a can 'o worms ... though there's not many calories in a nematode.

What you eat will depend entirely on your metabolism and what your stomach can handle on the long brevets. Only experience will dictate what that is ... or if anything will sit well with you.

I've found that changes according to season, temperature and the rest of one's fitness.

I used to stay right away from junk food, but have found the last couple of seasons that sometimes a bag of chips and a Coke are just what the doctor ordered -- salt, caffeine and sugar -- mmmmmmm!

Done.

Randochap

Also, beware hyponatremia.

bmike

lots of information here.

chewybrian 

I've seen the 200-300 calories/hour repeated from several sources (not 600 calories every 2 hrs., etc, but eating a bit every hour). It sounds like a good plan. Am I reading right, that the Endurolyte capsules contain no sugar, and provide all needed electrolytes? This sounds like the way to go. thanks


Lots of good info there. One thing that surprised me: I might train and ride better by eating MORE carbs, and less protein. I will have to do some work in this area, as my weight loss and control of blood sugar problems came from an Atkins-ish diet. I think with all the riding I am doing now, I could squeeze in more complex carbs, pasta, etc. Thanks for the link; I'll have to read it all.

Machka 

Salted almonds are the perfect food for long distance cyclists. They've got sodium, potassium, calcium, and heaps of other vitamins and minerals. Not only that, but they provide protein, good fats, and carbs. And you can pick them up in convenience stores for about $1 for a small packet.

Dried apricots are one of the highest sources of potassium ... higher than bananas and potatoes. They've also got a lot of vitamins and a few other minerals as well, and they are a good source of carbs.

Between the two, you're pretty much set.

However, if you'd like some variety, try these foods as well:
-- 100% pure orange juice (potassium & carbs)
-- beef jerky (sodium, possibly potassium, & protein)
-- potato chips (sodium, potassium, fat & carbs)
-- bananas (potassium & carbs)
-- various granola and cereal bars have some sodium, potassium, and other vitamins and minerals as well as being a tasty source of carbs ... check the labels next time you're in a grocery store

And there's nothing like a chicken croissant sandwich with a pickle on the side to hit the spot in the middle of a ride!!

chewybrian 

I could not help but notice all the items from your list that I was already chomping on my long rides. They just "felt" like the right things. I guess my body was sending the right signals for what it needed. I can't do the O.J., but the rest sounds good.

Machka 

Yes, your body will send signals for what it needs ...it's up to you to listen to those cravings. When I need protein, I crave chicken, although any protein will satisfy the craving. When I need salt, I'll usually crave potato chips.


But note that if you crave something like a really spicy burrito, you may just be after fat, protein, and salt. Your body might just be trying to convey that message and not the message that you should eat something really spicy. A chicken sandwich might be a better choice because it may sit better 20 km down the road.

FalconDriver

There's a ton of info over at https://www.hammernutrition.com. Good reading even if you don't buy their products.

I use a lot of their theory, and several of their products (with success).

coasting 

I usually make sure I have some food (fig rolls) and energy drink planned out, but once I went a lot further than planned with no food. After about 60 miles, I just had to stop and get a big family sized bag of smokey bacon crisps. It got me home 45 miles later.

That was just odd because whenever I planned food I take sweet stuff. Also I have never liked bacon flavoured crisps because they are too salty for my taste.

ericgu

Yes, it is a bit weird. The diet that you want to avoid when you aren't riding is pretty close to what you want when you are riding.

For electrolytes, the answer is "it depends". Your biggest need for electrolyte replacement when you are riding is salt, and endurolytes doesn't have much in it. Depending on how hot it is, how long the ride is, and your personal physiology, endurolytes may not be enough. They aren't enough for me.

You can lose up to a gram of sodium per liter of sweat, and, in my experience, once you get above the 4-6 hour mark it becomes important. For me, at least.

You can get sodium from your diet (salted snacks, beef jerky), or from supplements. I use one named Succeed E!caps, which have a ton more salt than endurolytes, and they work well for me.

Salt has gotten a bad rap. Some people (perhaps 10-25% of the population) are sodium-sensitive, and need to limit their salt to keep their blood pressure under control. If you're in that group, I suggest talking with your doctor and doing more research.

If you aren't in that group, reasonable supplementation of salt isn't a problem as long as you have sufficient water.

I wrote this about a year ago...

https://riderx.info/blogs/riderx/arch...ing-salty.aspx

JimF22003

I like these dried plums, which come in cherry, orange, lemon flavor:



Also I like to use Trader Joes or another good quality of Trail Mix, and then add in about equal amounts of roasted salted almonds, so I basically get Trail Mix heavy on the almonds.

That and a couple of bars of one kind or another and I'm set for a century. I take along a couple of GU's but they're for emergency bonks only.

Randochap

Prunes + marathon cycling =

coasting 

seeing the prunes I wondered how long before the tone gets lowered

Richard Cranium

Well a basic understanding of electrolytes and nutirents, {or nutrition in genreal} would mean that anyone answering your post needs to qualify the context of your question with respect to your own riding style or and or riding pace as well as your age, gender and the environmental conditions you are experiencing.

Basic adivce might include things like:

Learn to determine and maintain your current hydration status. (weight)
Learn to determine and maintain caloric expenditure and intake.
Learn to estimate the sodium and potassium content of popular foods you enjoy.
Learn to determine how much these factors change when you change your cycling pace or cycling environment. (temp)

How's that for a basic understanding of your questions?

Machka 

On my really long rides, I like sweet stuff for about the first 200 kms, but after that I usually crave salty food and lose most of my desire for sweet stuff.

Your body probably needed the salt in those smokey bacon crisps. I've been known to cycle with a bag of cheezies in my bento bag.

chewybrian 

I knew someone would go there...

Male, 215, 6'5", low 40's, Florida, 150-200 miles/week, 15-20 mph: if all that leads to a different answer, there it is. The goal is to complete the SR series. I can muck my way through a century alright, but I sense that these issues become more important at 300 miles, unsupported, vs. 100 with pitstops.

I'm just looking for broad rules, or links to begin learning. The thread already dished out a lot of what I was seeking. The Endurolytes were a great find. The 200-300 calorie rule, carb loading, links--all good. Of course, I'll need to up the doses to wookie size, and increase the water and electrolytes when it's hot and humid down here. I suppose my questions were broad, because I want to consider all the options, and see what everyone else is doing (even if it's prunes).

Randochap

I foresee much more getting "lowered."

the spin guru

I am a prune fenatic, but not on long rides of any sorts. I usually have some with breakfast. But if I eat prunes on a long ride they just give me the worst stomach problems.

JimF22003

I've been OK with the prunes so far Really they're no worse than raisins, and they're just enough sugar and carbs (and not too much fiber )

Rowan

The trouble with dehydrated or semi-dehydrated foods like prunes is that they need additional fluids to aid digestion. I would prefer fresh plums or grapes.

I suspect the reason why these foods create digestive upsets for many people is that their fluid intake is going directly into their bloodstream to service the losses through sweating, rather than aiding digestion.

I was once into dried bananas as an energy source, but I could not stomach them after a while because of their concentrated sweetness and digestive issues.

PBP is a good example of the sort of bland food that intelligent/aware organisers offer to their participants. Lots of pasta with mild sauces, for example. Machka and I also have had positive experiences on the two UMCA 24H races we've done, and chicken soup was one of my favourites, along with hot tea.

The more complex the carbohydrates or starches or sugars that you consume, the better off you will be in terms of extending the usefulness of that food. However, I think there is a definite role for proteins and fats -- one thing I learned from Kent Peterson was that chocolate milk could becomes a very important part of my long-distance regimen. And I've mentioned many times before, a good chicken pizza goes down really well anytime.

But Richard C and 127 do make very, very relevant points. You will only know what you can tolerate while on an event by experimenting. I know that I have done all sorts of events on liquid only food and real food. At the moment, I prefer the real food option.

My most recent fast century was done on a breakfast of cooked oats, then a nougat bar to the 100km mark, then a quick serving of instant noodles. I did run short of energy towards the end, but put up with it.

Potassium also is, I think, the forgotten electrolyte, I believe it has an important function in cell metabolism. The "substitute salt" may be a good option to use because it has a higher level of potassium chloride, but still retains sodium chloride.

I've learned, too, that many "energy" drink and bars become very "old" very quickly on a ride. I currently prefer the Australian version of Coca Cola's Powerade, which has maltodextrin rather than sucrose like its opposition. The taste is not sweet.

I also know that overconsumption of things like regular Coke and other fizzy drinks creates mouth and tongue ulcers. Coke is a great pick-me-up (when all things say it shouldn't be), but I do tend to restrict its use these days. There also is some thought that a diminution of the Vitamin B group in the body can lead to ulcers -- perhaps the ingedients in Coke lead to this decrease.

And finally, while not related directly to nutrition and electrolyes, go easy on the painkillers should you think you need them. Especially stuff like ibuprofen which, for me, can cause severe constipation -- a really unpleasant situation two thirds of the way through a 600. It's probably a function of the anti-inflammatory action of the drug. Take the recommended dosages and don't be tempted to pop another one "just to make sure".