Tommaso Augusta & RS Cycle Review
02-06-08, 03:18 PM
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Tommaso Augusta & RS Cycle Review
So recently, I purchased a Tommaso Augusta from Randall Scott Company, since Mercier Kilo TT's were out of stock and the Augusta was rather pretty and had some good features.
Well, the bike certainly was pretty, except for one thing:
As you can see, the seatstays are welded a bit off to the right. No big deal, right?
Apparently it is. The wheel is supposed to be centered in the seatstays too, right?
And the wheel is supposed to be inline with the seat tube, right? I mean, that's how things are on bikes that are made properly.
Well, after explaining my situation and e-mailing pictures to the customer service department at RS Cycle, they agreed to send me a new one once they got my return tracking number. That was pretty nice of them, I must admit.
Well, 5 or so days later, the new one comes in, and I'm giddy as hell to see my new, correctly made tarck bike. So the first thing I do is put that rear wheel in and...
Son of a *****. Same thing. Plus this one has so much clearcoat applied to it that it's literally dripping off the track ends. I called them up, and they said they'd check it out and try to fix it. Apparently they guy I was talking to has been building bikes for 10 years, so I guess they knew what they were doing. About half an hour later, they called me back and told me that that's how it's designed. Something about that's how track bikes are, because of the way the force is put on the cog or some crap like that. I was actually quite pleased with RS Cycle's service up until this point. I didn't buy that excuse, so then they told me that the wheel is dished for the freewheel on the other side, since it's a flip flop hub. How does that explain why it's centered in the chainstays but not in the seatstays? I flipped the wheel over just in case, and the problem still remained. I told him that that makes no sense and he explained that their technician looked over it and said it was fine. I said it wasn't. He said something along the lines of "well that's just like, your opinion, man." So I asked for a refund. The guy on the phone was willing to waive the restocking fee, but I'd have to pay for return shipping. As far as I'm concerned, somebody screwed up down the line and it wasn't me. So now I'm stuck with a bike that I'll never really like or I can pay $50 to have it shipped back.
My question is:
Am I wrong? Are other Tommaso Augustas like this?
**edit**
Here's the rest of the review:
I was in the market for a budget track bike, and it was down to the Tommaso Augusta or the Mercier Kilo TT. The Tommaso was $100 more than the Mercier, after shipping is included. (BikesDirect doesn't charge for shipping). However, the price seemed worth it to me, due to a few things:
Actual advantages:
- Threadless headset. I've heard these are stiffer than quill stems, but I'm not absolutely sure about that. Plus all of my other bikes are old, so it was nice to have some new technology around.
- Wheelset. After much research, I came to the conclusion that both bikes came with crappy wheelsets, although after much internet sleuthing, I was able to dig up a couple somewhat favorable reviews of the Novatec hubs the Tommaso comes with. Plus, I could probably flip the Tommaso wheelset for more on eBay/Craigslist due to the super-hip Deep-V-esque rims and buy myself some Formula/CXP22's.
- Ergo Drops. I have classic bend bars on a bunch of other bikes, and I wasn't the biggest fan. Might as well try something new, although I did slap on some bullhorns anyways. It's nice to have them as backups, in case the mood strikes.
- Saddle. Comes with a Selle San Marco Ponza saddle. I've read multiple times about how the Mercier Kilo saddle was hellish, and Selle San Marco is well known and sounds fancy. Yeah, not the best decision making.
- Geometry. The headtube and seattube angles are steeper than the Mercier, unless you buy the 57-61 cm size. Having a 31" inseam, I'd be stuck with the 53cm size, which has the 73º headtube. With all of the pedestrian/car/etc dodging that I do, I wanted a twitchier bike. The 54cm Tommaso had basically the same geometry as the Bianchi Pista and all the steep angles and short chainstays any tarck poseur could ever ask for. I'll be honest though, I don't have a firm grasp on how geometry affects your handling. I know there's rake, trail, etc, but I have more important things to study right now. So, disregard this entire section.
Superficial crap:
The bike looks a little more modern, with its slightly sloping top tube, straight fork, threadless headset, and all-black color scheme. I know not everybody digs that, but all of my bikes are older than me, so I wanted a change. Plus, the Tommaso logo looked pretty classy, with its dark grey on black color scheme and Italian stripes, whereas the Mercier looked cheesy, and the increased sales in black vinyl sheeting seems to back that opinion up. The bike also has an actual headtube badge as opposed to the Mercier's paint/sticker, which is a nice touch.
All that taken into account, I ordered my bike.
The wheelset is alright. Novatech hubs laced to Weinmann DP18's with machined sidewalls. They seem to spin smoothly, but I have yet to see how they stand up over time, since this bike will be returned soon. From what I've read on the interwebs, Novatech hubs aren't really the best. These wheels are obviously machine made, as the spokes started to set in as I mounted the bike.
Other notable components include a Cane Creek headset and Selle San Marco Ponza saddle, which is fairly comfortable, at least for my ass. Less notable components are the Truvativ Touro cranks and Wellgo pedals. The pedals are pretty poor, as the clips are really flexible and like to stay close to the pedal, making it hard to get my feet in. Plus, the clips are a special hole pattern, ala old-school Shimano platforms, so you can't walk into your LBS and get some new clips.
Speaking of pedals, the pedal overlap isn't all that bad. With the clips adjusted all the way out (the clips on these are adjustable forwards/backwards), there's only about half a centimeter or so of overlap. When you experience it while riding, the wheel just rubs a bit, instead of smacking you in the middle of your toes. Granted, toe overlap shouldn't be a big problem if you're going fast enough, but I was just screwing around in the basement of my residence hall.
There is a HUGE gap between the downtube and front wheel. Not a functional difference, but now that I have the bike in front of me, the smaller clearance on my old road bike is definitely more aesthetically pleasing.
The seatstay bridge, as you can see in the pictures, has just a simple hole for a rear brake, which means you're going to have to mount one ala cheap 70's road bike, with external nut and all. The Mercier has an actual brake mount in the rear. This is really only important if you're running single speed.
The finish is not terrible for the most part. However, mine came with clearcoat dripping off the trackends, and it's chipping a bit where the headset was pressed in. The size, warning, and "MADE IN CHINA" sticker are all under the clearcoat, which is incredibly annoying. You can coax them off, but you'll take the clearcoat off with it and there will be odd little rectangles on your bike that are at a slightly different level.
Hopefully I'll get a properly made bike in the future and I'll be able to report on the ride and other stuff you get from riding a bunch.
Well, the bike certainly was pretty, except for one thing:
As you can see, the seatstays are welded a bit off to the right. No big deal, right?
Apparently it is. The wheel is supposed to be centered in the seatstays too, right?
And the wheel is supposed to be inline with the seat tube, right? I mean, that's how things are on bikes that are made properly.
Well, after explaining my situation and e-mailing pictures to the customer service department at RS Cycle, they agreed to send me a new one once they got my return tracking number. That was pretty nice of them, I must admit.
Well, 5 or so days later, the new one comes in, and I'm giddy as hell to see my new, correctly made tarck bike. So the first thing I do is put that rear wheel in and...
Son of a *****. Same thing. Plus this one has so much clearcoat applied to it that it's literally dripping off the track ends. I called them up, and they said they'd check it out and try to fix it. Apparently they guy I was talking to has been building bikes for 10 years, so I guess they knew what they were doing. About half an hour later, they called me back and told me that that's how it's designed. Something about that's how track bikes are, because of the way the force is put on the cog or some crap like that. I was actually quite pleased with RS Cycle's service up until this point. I didn't buy that excuse, so then they told me that the wheel is dished for the freewheel on the other side, since it's a flip flop hub. How does that explain why it's centered in the chainstays but not in the seatstays? I flipped the wheel over just in case, and the problem still remained. I told him that that makes no sense and he explained that their technician looked over it and said it was fine. I said it wasn't. He said something along the lines of "well that's just like, your opinion, man." So I asked for a refund. The guy on the phone was willing to waive the restocking fee, but I'd have to pay for return shipping. As far as I'm concerned, somebody screwed up down the line and it wasn't me. So now I'm stuck with a bike that I'll never really like or I can pay $50 to have it shipped back.
My question is:
Am I wrong? Are other Tommaso Augustas like this?
**edit**
Here's the rest of the review:
I was in the market for a budget track bike, and it was down to the Tommaso Augusta or the Mercier Kilo TT. The Tommaso was $100 more than the Mercier, after shipping is included. (BikesDirect doesn't charge for shipping). However, the price seemed worth it to me, due to a few things:
Actual advantages:
- Threadless headset. I've heard these are stiffer than quill stems, but I'm not absolutely sure about that. Plus all of my other bikes are old, so it was nice to have some new technology around.
- Wheelset. After much research, I came to the conclusion that both bikes came with crappy wheelsets, although after much internet sleuthing, I was able to dig up a couple somewhat favorable reviews of the Novatec hubs the Tommaso comes with. Plus, I could probably flip the Tommaso wheelset for more on eBay/Craigslist due to the super-hip Deep-V-esque rims and buy myself some Formula/CXP22's.
- Ergo Drops. I have classic bend bars on a bunch of other bikes, and I wasn't the biggest fan. Might as well try something new, although I did slap on some bullhorns anyways. It's nice to have them as backups, in case the mood strikes.
- Saddle. Comes with a Selle San Marco Ponza saddle. I've read multiple times about how the Mercier Kilo saddle was hellish, and Selle San Marco is well known and sounds fancy. Yeah, not the best decision making.
- Geometry. The headtube and seattube angles are steeper than the Mercier, unless you buy the 57-61 cm size. Having a 31" inseam, I'd be stuck with the 53cm size, which has the 73º headtube. With all of the pedestrian/car/etc dodging that I do, I wanted a twitchier bike. The 54cm Tommaso had basically the same geometry as the Bianchi Pista and all the steep angles and short chainstays any tarck poseur could ever ask for. I'll be honest though, I don't have a firm grasp on how geometry affects your handling. I know there's rake, trail, etc, but I have more important things to study right now. So, disregard this entire section.
Superficial crap:
The bike looks a little more modern, with its slightly sloping top tube, straight fork, threadless headset, and all-black color scheme. I know not everybody digs that, but all of my bikes are older than me, so I wanted a change. Plus, the Tommaso logo looked pretty classy, with its dark grey on black color scheme and Italian stripes, whereas the Mercier looked cheesy, and the increased sales in black vinyl sheeting seems to back that opinion up. The bike also has an actual headtube badge as opposed to the Mercier's paint/sticker, which is a nice touch.
All that taken into account, I ordered my bike.
The wheelset is alright. Novatech hubs laced to Weinmann DP18's with machined sidewalls. They seem to spin smoothly, but I have yet to see how they stand up over time, since this bike will be returned soon. From what I've read on the interwebs, Novatech hubs aren't really the best. These wheels are obviously machine made, as the spokes started to set in as I mounted the bike.
Other notable components include a Cane Creek headset and Selle San Marco Ponza saddle, which is fairly comfortable, at least for my ass. Less notable components are the Truvativ Touro cranks and Wellgo pedals. The pedals are pretty poor, as the clips are really flexible and like to stay close to the pedal, making it hard to get my feet in. Plus, the clips are a special hole pattern, ala old-school Shimano platforms, so you can't walk into your LBS and get some new clips.
Speaking of pedals, the pedal overlap isn't all that bad. With the clips adjusted all the way out (the clips on these are adjustable forwards/backwards), there's only about half a centimeter or so of overlap. When you experience it while riding, the wheel just rubs a bit, instead of smacking you in the middle of your toes. Granted, toe overlap shouldn't be a big problem if you're going fast enough, but I was just screwing around in the basement of my residence hall.
There is a HUGE gap between the downtube and front wheel. Not a functional difference, but now that I have the bike in front of me, the smaller clearance on my old road bike is definitely more aesthetically pleasing.
The seatstay bridge, as you can see in the pictures, has just a simple hole for a rear brake, which means you're going to have to mount one ala cheap 70's road bike, with external nut and all. The Mercier has an actual brake mount in the rear. This is really only important if you're running single speed.
The finish is not terrible for the most part. However, mine came with clearcoat dripping off the trackends, and it's chipping a bit where the headset was pressed in. The size, warning, and "MADE IN CHINA" sticker are all under the clearcoat, which is incredibly annoying. You can coax them off, but you'll take the clearcoat off with it and there will be odd little rectangles on your bike that are at a slightly different level.
Hopefully I'll get a properly made bike in the future and I'll be able to report on the ride and other stuff you get from riding a bunch.
Last edited by imthewalrus; 02-08-08 at 03:16 PM.
02-06-08, 03:40 PM
#2
F'ing A
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The seat stays on mine are symmetrical. The wheel lines up with the seat tube and is directly between the stays. It came properly dished to run on the cog side. Mine did have a lot of clear coat though, but it was not as bad as yours sounds like it is. It seems to me like you got screwed over by some bad quality control. That sucks. I don't know what to tell you besides to call back and ask for a managers email address so you can show him pictures that clearly prove your case.
Last edited by shasta; 02-06-08 at 10:15 PM.
02-06-08, 08:08 PM
#3
kinda useless.
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I showed them pictures and they apparently inspected several other bikes and found the same thing, to which they concluded that they were supposed to be like that. I told them that that can't be right and they told me I was wrong.
I have no idea what to do.
I have no idea what to do.
02-06-08, 08:28 PM
#4
F'ing A
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Maybe you should ask them if they make a habit of riding bikes on which the wheels don't line up. They can't honestly believe that the bike is supposed to be crooked. That is absurd.
I assume you have already tried this but...Have you redished the wheel to run on the cog side and are you absolutely positive that you have the wheel set up as straight as possible? The only possibilities that I can think of are that the bike is setup wrong or rscycle is trying to cover their ass after having received a shipment of substandard augustas.
I assume you have already tried this but...Have you redished the wheel to run on the cog side and are you absolutely positive that you have the wheel set up as straight as possible? The only possibilities that I can think of are that the bike is setup wrong or rscycle is trying to cover their ass after having received a shipment of substandard augustas.
Last edited by shasta; 02-06-08 at 10:15 PM.
02-06-08, 09:14 PM
#5
kinda useless.
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I've messed around with the positioning of the rear wheel for an hour and I couldn't seem to be able to find the right spot.. When I called them the first time around and sent them back the first bike, they admitted that it was messed up. When the second one was messed up too and a few more in their inventory were too, they started making excuses.
I'm pretty sure that the offset welding screwed up the geometry of the triangles in the back, and now the track ends are literally at different heights relative to the ground, and no amount of cold-setting can fix it. That would explain why it lines up relatively well in the chainstays but is horrendously off in the seatstays.
In conclusion, be weary of purchasing a Tommaso Augusta or anything from RS Cycle. I hate to say that because they were actually quite helpful in exchanging bikes and calling me back, but making excuses to cover up their stock defective bikes is pretty damn shady in my opinion.
What sucks the most now is that I look upon my new Augusta with the same amount of scorn as my beat to hell, gas-pipe, square-bearing-bottom bracket $10 Nishiki Rally.
I'm pretty sure that the offset welding screwed up the geometry of the triangles in the back, and now the track ends are literally at different heights relative to the ground, and no amount of cold-setting can fix it. That would explain why it lines up relatively well in the chainstays but is horrendously off in the seatstays.
In conclusion, be weary of purchasing a Tommaso Augusta or anything from RS Cycle. I hate to say that because they were actually quite helpful in exchanging bikes and calling me back, but making excuses to cover up their stock defective bikes is pretty damn shady in my opinion.
What sucks the most now is that I look upon my new Augusta with the same amount of scorn as my beat to hell, gas-pipe, square-bearing-bottom bracket $10 Nishiki Rally.
Last edited by imthewalrus; 02-07-08 at 08:57 AM.
02-06-08, 09:29 PM
#6
stay free.
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check the spacers on your wheel. Mine seemed to ride a bit to one side on my conversion, moved the spacer rings around and HUZAH! perfect. An easy check for this might be to see if your chainline is straight, if it isnt then the wheel spacers might be out of whack.
02-06-08, 09:52 PM
#7
kinda useless.
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It's not a matter of spacing; the wheel is literally canted to the left when you look at it from the back. Thanks though.
02-06-08, 10:24 PM
#9
F'ing A
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I've messed around with the positioning of the rear wheel for an hour and I couldn't seem to be able to find the right spot.. When I called them the first time around and sent them back the first bike, they admitted that it was messed up. When the second one was messed up too and a few more in their inventory were too, they started making excuses.
I'm pretty sure that the offset welding screwed up the geometry of the triangles in the back, and now the track ends are literally at different heights relative to the ground, and no amount of cold-setting can fix it. That would explain why it lines up relatively well in the chainstays but is horrendously off in the seatstays.
In conclusion, don't buy a Tommaso Augusta or anything from RS Cycle. I hate to say that because they were actually quite helpful in exchanging bikes and calling me back, but making excuses to cover up their stock defective bikes is pretty damn shady in my opinion.
What sucks the most now is that I look upon my new Augusta with the same amount of scorn as my beat to hell, gas-pipe, square-bearing-bottom bracket $10 Nishiki Rally.
I'm pretty sure that the offset welding screwed up the geometry of the triangles in the back, and now the track ends are literally at different heights relative to the ground, and no amount of cold-setting can fix it. That would explain why it lines up relatively well in the chainstays but is horrendously off in the seatstays.
In conclusion, don't buy a Tommaso Augusta or anything from RS Cycle. I hate to say that because they were actually quite helpful in exchanging bikes and calling me back, but making excuses to cover up their stock defective bikes is pretty damn shady in my opinion.
What sucks the most now is that I look upon my new Augusta with the same amount of scorn as my beat to hell, gas-pipe, square-bearing-bottom bracket $10 Nishiki Rally.
Deathhare, rscycle is the only distributor for tommaso in the world. I know they used to be an italian company. They went away for awhile and then came back as a bike being produced in asia and distributed through rscycle. I have no idea who owns the company but if rscycle refuses to help you out you are pretty much screwed.
edit: jeez my spelling is terrible today. I've had to edit all of my posts so I won't look remedial.
Last edited by shasta; 02-06-08 at 11:21 PM.
02-06-08, 10:36 PM
#11
gears are for queers
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thats strange my friend just bought one and its fine
s****y deal
get yer munnies back and buy a kilo tt
s****y deal
get yer munnies back and buy a kilo tt
02-06-08, 11:21 PM
#12
Senior Member
Those pictures and your story have cemented in my mind that the Tommaso Augusta is a piece of **** bike and I will not recommend it to anyone.
02-06-08, 11:50 PM
#13
kinda useless.
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I hope that one of these days, they'll realize their mistake and send me a good one. I hope it was a bad batch, because I would very much like this bike if it wasn't for this problem. I'm pretty disappointed. I'm going to try to reason with them and see if I can get a good one. If not, then I guess I lose $50 and a lot of respect for them.
So I'm in a picture mood:
somebody loves the clearcoat:
this is ridiculous. even the warning label isn't aligned! plus it's under the clear coat. not such a big deal though.
the bike as a whole is actually quite a looker, though. shame. those are nashbar bullhorns on there, btw.
So I'm in a picture mood:
somebody loves the clearcoat:
this is ridiculous. even the warning label isn't aligned! plus it's under the clear coat. not such a big deal though.
the bike as a whole is actually quite a looker, though. shame. those are nashbar bullhorns on there, btw.
02-07-08, 07:00 PM
#14
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That is really a shame.
02-07-08, 08:12 PM
#16
kinda useless.
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Yes, it really is, but it works. I figure they just used the same cups.
Anyways, I sent the guys at RS cycle an e-mail regarding this thread and called me back this morning and left me a message. They said they're going to talk to the manufacturer and see if it really is defective and if it is, get me a replacement. Hopefully all will work out and Tommaso Augustas will be safe to purchase again. I'd really like to give them a second chance; they seem like a pretty small business and I know how that can be.
Anyways, I sent the guys at RS cycle an e-mail regarding this thread and called me back this morning and left me a message. They said they're going to talk to the manufacturer and see if it really is defective and if it is, get me a replacement. Hopefully all will work out and Tommaso Augustas will be safe to purchase again. I'd really like to give them a second chance; they seem like a pretty small business and I know how that can be.
02-08-08, 12:18 PM
#19
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I was just rereading the augusta info at rscycle and it reminded me that these bikes come with a lifetime warranty against all defects. Doesn't this situation fall into that category?
02-08-08, 12:44 PM
#20
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I would imagine so, but they ruled that this wasn't a defect, and it was actually made that way.
But like I said, they're backpedaling a bit and are supposedly talking to the manufacturer about it, "to see if this was part of the design" (which it isn't) and if not then they're going to get me a new bike from the next batch if the problem is rectified.
But like I said, they're backpedaling a bit and are supposedly talking to the manufacturer about it, "to see if this was part of the design" (which it isn't) and if not then they're going to get me a new bike from the next batch if the problem is rectified.
02-08-08, 12:47 PM
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I would imagine so, but they ruled that this wasn't a defect, and it was actually made that way.
But like I said, they're backpedaling a bit and are supposedly talking to the manufacturer about it, "to see if this was part of the design" (which it isn't) and if not then they're going to get me a new bike from the next batch if the problem is rectified.
But like I said, they're backpedaling a bit and are supposedly talking to the manufacturer about it, "to see if this was part of the design" (which it isn't) and if not then they're going to get me a new bike from the next batch if the problem is rectified.
02-08-08, 01:29 PM
#22
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stupid question.....
did you use the same rear wheel for both frames? if so did you rule out the wheel dish as a problem, by flipping it over?
did you use the same rear wheel for both frames? if so did you rule out the wheel dish as a problem, by flipping it over?
02-08-08, 01:39 PM
#24
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This isn't a review, this borders on blog spam.
Also are you sure the wheel is dished properly? I know the frame is probably effed again per your description, but just to eliminate that totally would be nice.
Also are you sure the wheel is dished properly? I know the frame is probably effed again per your description, but just to eliminate that totally would be nice.
Last edited by operator; 02-08-08 at 01:47 PM.
02-08-08, 01:43 PM
#25
F'ing A
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SJ
Posts: 321
Bikes: 08 tommaso augusta, 88 specialized sirrus, random cruisers and stuff
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I would imagine so, but they ruled that this wasn't a defect, and it was actually made that way.
But like I said, they're backpedaling a bit and are supposedly talking to the manufacturer about it, "to see if this was part of the design" (which it isn't) and if not then they're going to get me a new bike from the next batch if the problem is rectified.
But like I said, they're backpedaling a bit and are supposedly talking to the manufacturer about it, "to see if this was part of the design" (which it isn't) and if not then they're going to get me a new bike from the next batch if the problem is rectified.