chibi

I measured my new Steamroller Complete's chainline and it's around 45-46mm. The crankset is Sugino RD2R-TL and the BB is 103mm. In a different thread I found out that new RD2R crankset's chainline is 45mm
and not 42mm. So the question is, 3 - 4mm difference something to worry about?

Thanks

baxtefer

3-4mm is worth doing something about.

i'm Ok with about 2mm of chainline deviation.

put the chainring on the insider of the spider.

Landgolier

Putting it on the inside of the spider will move it in 6mm, 39mm ain't much better, and 3-4mm is a lot of BB spacers. Your surly rear setup is probably about 43mm. I would get a new BB (107 with 1-2mm of spacers) and then call Surly and complain profusely that they didn't notice this spec change from their supplier. Or make them send you a new BB, but that's unlikely. Also, please tell us how they respond.

Skip Bernet

Surly Track hubs are spec'd with a 42.5 - 43.5mm chainline, that coupled with the 45mm chainline of the Sugino crank and an 8 speed chain fits within the acceptable range of tolerance on this.

We've ridden this setup for thousands of miles and sold a bunch of these without the remotest sign of trouble. We would not put it out if we thought it was in any way dangerous.

Despite what some folks might think of us (yes, we are a division of the QBP megalith) we design products that we ride every day, we care deeply about the perception of our stuff, and we lose sleep when things are wrong. We're not in this to make a quick buck off of scamming people. We're in this business to make good solid products that make you want to ride.

If you ever have questions, please e-mail me at esovern@surlybikes.com or call 877-743-3191 and ask for Eric.

Thanks,
Eric "Skip Bernet" Sovern

seaneee

I may be totally wrong about this...

but doesn't an 8sp chain (assuming it's 3/32 since you specified 8sp) allow for more flex in chainline rather than a 1/8th chain that's less forgiving?

If that is the case, I don't think it's safe to assume your customers will be using a road chain, but more likely a 1/8 track chain.

BTW, I to me it's doesn't seem like anyone was calling you guys out (although I do realize you guys get a lot of unnecessary flak), It seemed more like a heads up.

I actually love some of the stuff you guys put out, especially the different bar shapes. And like anything, you learn over time, it's not always perfect the 1st time, but at least you guys keep moving forward. Like I said above, I think you guys get a lot of unnecessary s**t- for reasons not worth getting into in this thread. Just do me one favor PLEASE change your logo/identity! Hell, I'll do it for you pro bono.

Landgolier

So you guys know it's wrong, and decided a kludge fix (8 speed chain) would be good enough? Weak.

Skip Bernet

The 8 speed 3/32" chain does give more deflection which in the case of an imperfect chainline is good. It's a 1/8" chain with less deflection that would be a worse situation.

And, I didn't think we were being attacked here, I just know that sometimes we are portrayed as this giant company when we're really just 5 jerks in a room talking about bikes, clacking away on computers, and spending every other minute riding. I do look out my window and see the QBP warehouse, but that generally means we have the resources to design weird stuff (read: Pugsley) and get away with it.

Sometimes we're seen as conference room inhabiting suit monkeys that always need to make profit profit profit. While we do need to make enough to keep the Man from booting our asses into the street, we are still motivated by designing the stuff we want to ride. It's totally selfish. We're just glad there are yayhoos like us out there who want to ride the same way we do.

And the squiggly logo is what it is. We did something different for the Pacer this year, but that won't likely make it to other models. We like the way our stuff looks and that's good enough for us. We know some folks don't like our logo, and some folks don't like our color choices, but that just goes to show that we're not pouring over our demographic metrics at the expense of good designs.

Cheers,
Eric

Skip Bernet

The 8 speed wasn't a fix, it was the plan from the get-go. A 3/32" chain gives you a lot more chainring, cog, and crankset options. Most folks aren't going to take the Steamroller to the track, so an 1/8" chain is overkill.

Landgolier

I agree that 8 speed chain can probably deal with that much deflection (though you will still get excess chainring and cog wear, I have a worn Surly cog to prove it). What I'm still missing the part where there's a good reason why you guys didn't just do it right in the first place.

Landgolier

A straight chainline gives you even more chainring and cog options, I think it's great you planned around 3/32 chain but that doesn't bear on why the chainline couldn't just be straight.

Skip Bernet

It is right - within tolerances means it's right.

Why do you hate us so?

Landgolier

If 2mm off is "within tolerances" for chainline (p.s. who decides the tolerances?), I shudder to think what other unspecified f---ness lurks within your other products.

I don't hate Surly, I have some of the stuff you guys make that I think is well-made, and I'm not shy about slagging the stuff I think is bad or overpriced. However, in the past couple of days we've learned that as a company you guys think that 631 isn't better than 4130 and that crappy chainline is no biggie. These discussions started out of the idea that maybe for the premium you guys charge over other brands that are just maxway frames (+ generic parts, in the case of completes), people ought to expect a little more. From this, it sounds like we should expect less.

Skip Bernet

I welcome your slagging. I really do.

I'm also confident in all the products we make and their durability and value. Again, we ride the suff, so we're not going to let something out there that's unsafe or crappy.

Eric

chibi

Oh well, when I bought a built bike I expected everything to be perfect. Looks like I could have done a better job myself. Very disappointed.

Skip Bernet

If something goes wrong with your Surly because of the way we spec'd it or had it built, we'll make it right. Our reputation stands on the long-term durability of our stuff.

seaneee

Fair enough, but while metrics are nothing to rely on, they do gauge what your customer wants. And not matter whether it's 5 guys in a room or 100 in an office, in the end, isn't it about what the consumer is looking for? I don't think it's so easy to just write that off and say, we'll we (5 guys) like it so it must be good enough.

I'm all for building product you believe in, and I do think you guys do. But it's another thing to not listen to who is buying it. Those are the people who pay your bills.

And keep in mind that 'good design' is a complete package- while admittedly too many people go for aesthetics over practicality, a well thought out product captures both and helps it stand out among your competitors.

Gordiep

I like the logo; nice and simple. I'd say that their products are pretty well thought out...which seems to be their main strength, but they all look pretty sharp to me.

chibi

Look like you had a perfect chainline with the original RD crankset (42mm chainline). I understand it is not
your fault that Sugino changed their chainline to 45mm, but claiming that there is no difference is kind of sad. Only reason I measured my chainline was because of the noise I was hearing when riding. If the vendor changed their spec, I would expect Surly to adapt not brush it off as an "acceptable range of tolerance".

Landgolier

Also, side query: what's the chainline going to be on the Mr. Whirly in SS mode? 42mm road/track standard? 52mm MTB standard? Or somewhere within "acceptable tolerances"?