pdxtex

I have a wheel that I don't really want to get rid of but something needs to be done quickly as its now breaking spokes frequently (two this month). Its a stock machine made wheel that came on my Trek and I'd estimate it has 15000 miles on it. However, as far as I can tell, the hub is fine as it still rotates smoothly and the rim is still true and dent free. My question is, would simply replacing all the spokes make it "good" as new so long a good wheel builder does it, or are there more structural wear issues besides obvious spoke fatigue which may need to be addressed. I'd really rather pay the 60 bucks to get it re-laced then fork out 120 for a new wheel. Comments, suggestions?

Bob Dopolina 

I've re-laced wheels and used the same hubs and rims and greatly extended the life of both. If you're sure the rim is ok and the hub still feels good. Go for it.

pdxtex

hmm, that sounds encouraging. yeah, it seems like rims can last a looong time if you take care of them. i wonder how much abrasion they can take by the brake pads before their thickness, or lack there of becomes a structural issue. but getting new spokes certainly sounds like the path i want to take. and some beefy ones too!!!

OneTinSloth

if the brake track of the rim looks like this: )(, rather than like this ||, you should replace the rim, as the brake track isn't very thin, and when they wear can behave in a rather unpredictable fashion and fail pretty spectacularly when the tire is inflated. 15,000 miles sounds like a lot, but it's probably ok.

as far as spokes go, thicker doesn't always mean better. if you want the best possible wheel build, go with double butted spokes. i'd go into more detail, but i'm too tired right now. i'm sure someone else will come along to explain soon enough.

tellyho

I wonder if there's a broader tension problem here causing your spoke breakage. It seems strange that they would begin breaking spontaneously.

HillRider

Other than impact damage, brake track wear is what usually kills rims that have been laced properly. 15,000 miles is either a lot or not much depending on the terrain and weather you ride in. If you ride a lot of hills and in bad weather, the rims are probably pretty worn. If your area is flat, has low traffic and is clean and dry, they could last decades.

Inspect the brake tracks carefully and if they are smooth and flat the rims should be good. Also, inspect around the spoke nipples to be certain the rim shows no deformation or cracking there.

OTS is correct that butted spokes are easier on the rim and hubs than straight gauge.

dbg

Broken spokes tend to come in bunches. If they are breaking at the hub, it is from loose spokes flexing too much. (Breaking at the nipple is rarer and probably from being too tight).

smurf hunter

I found evening out the spoke tension on a troubled wheel does a lot to mitigate chronic spoke breakage. This is often because a few spokes are tighter than the rest, and are bearing all the load.

If you don't have a tension meter, then go by feel or sound (plug the spoke like a guitar string). For rear wheels match within each side (all drive side the same, then all left side the same). After that true as needed.

operator

Pfft sound. Use the fricking tensionmeter - please.

smurf hunter

I dig the tensionmeter, it's a great tool - BUT it was vastly faster to pluck the spokes during the tensioning process to get a ballpark tension and make 1/4 nipple turns. After I was done, I re-measured with mt Park TM-1 and all spokes were very close in tension.

Bob Dopolina 

So how many different notes should you end up with? I would imagine it would be 4?

I sometimes pluck a spoke as part of the 30 second bike check. I don't do it for accuracy (wheel building) but to look for glaring problems. A truly wonky spoke will stick out like a sore thumb using this method. If I find a problem I then slap the wheel in a truing stand and grab by tensiometer to find out what is really going on with this wheel.

pdxtex

what will it sound like or feel like? im a noob when it come to truing wheels so any tips on a pre ride inspection would be sweet. are there really any practical ways of telling which spokes are weaker then the others anyway?

Retro Grouch 

Ideally you would have 2 tones for a dished wheel and 1 tone for an undished wheel. In the real world you generally have to settle for the least amount of spoke tension variation that's possible with the amount of rim runout that you're willing to live with.

smurf hunter

I used to setup guitars, maybe I just have an ear for it...

Bob Dopolina 

I'm a guitar player, too. That's why I was interested. I can hear a difference but based on different spokes/rims/tensions spec'd for different wheels, I'm not going to rely on it for wheel building. Just a quick check to find something that is "off".

I thought you would get 4 different sounds: 1 for DS pulling, 1 for NDS pulling, 1 for the trailing spokes and anther one for the entire front wheel. Maybe 5?

To pdxtex: The sound is a dull thunk as opposed to anything that rings. Or any spoke that seems to be markedly different from the rest. This is a spoke with issues.

pdxtex

so im going to plink away once i get my wheel back from the shop. any wheel with a dull thud or a funky sound will be marked by some paint to see if those spokes break next. im not expecting miracles out of this rim but at least a few more weeks of riding. if another breaks, then im either going to totally re-lace it or bite the bullet and buy a brand new wheel. thanks for the input folks....

blamp28

pdxtex,

It will not always be the loosest spoke that breaks next. It will be the one that has accumulated the most residual stresses at the elbow. These stresses are heightened when one or two spoke break and other spokes are instantaniously required to take the extra load until the wheel is re-tensioned. Think of the wheel as a balanced assembly in which all spokes have an equally distributed workload. When one ore more are not doing thier share of the work, some of the other spokes in the assembly are required to take up the extra load for a time. These spokes will experience a bit of extra stress untill relieved by retensioning. These stresses add up over time and are exposed as material failures when the elbow (usually) fails.

The continuous spoke breakage is a symptom that tells me IMHO that your wheel is sadly in need of a rebuild. You are essentially replacing all of them one a time but paying the labor once is less costly and you have a dependable wheel. Buying new wheels should include a good tensioning by a competent wheel man as well because most of these "sale" wheels are machine built and are not necessarily uniform in tension. You essentially are staring the same cycle all over again but just won't likely see results very soon. The key to longevity is a properly tensioned wheel meaning the correct amount of balanced tension. Machines rarely get this right but the wheels are very cost effective. So do what many do. Buy the wheels and get them "touched up" My last set are approaching 5000 trouble free miles. Your other option is to rebuild with new spokes. If you like the rim and it is still serviceable, this should be fine. My personal choice is double butted spokes as the "shaft" of the spoke takes some of the shock away from the elbows further reducing stresses that are introduced. This contributes to the longevity of the assembly.