Coming to terms with the carnage
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Coming to terms with the carnage
I know that there are times, usually immediately after crashes, when we start to question why we continue to race. For some reason this has gotten into my head. For instance, at the Reston Town Center grand prix, a technical crit here in the DC area last weekend, there were 18 crashes, 9 requiring medical attention, and 4 requiring hospitallization. And nobody really batted an eyelash at those stats.
Some of it falls on the race organizers, sure, but Reston was NOT a particularly technical course. Get a bunch of overly-aggressive cat 4's and 5's out there lacking perspective about what it is they're really racing for, though, and it's on like Donkey Kong. What makes this even more frustrating is that all of my crashes this year haven't been anything that I've actually done--I've just been stuck behind the crashes and have gotten sucked into them. The one that broke my frame was a "smart" crash on my part where I was barely injured, but then someone else joins the pile-up and lands on my frame, breaking it.
I just don't know how to come to terms with this. There are guys 10 years my junior who are willing to sacrifice themselves and their equipment doing dangerous ***** to win a $50 prize at a race. There are others who don't know what they're doing and don't seem to care. There are plenty of broken bones to go around among the BF racers I know and have ridden with.
Then there are the folks who will say "Well, then don't race crits." It's NOT just crits. The crash that destroyed my Powertap wheel, for instance, was some moron over-reacting to another rider's flat and making a sudden move right into the pack, taking out 6 guys, on a flat, wide-open straightaway in a road race.
I don't know what the point of this little rant actually is, but for any of you out there thinking that upgrading to cat 4 is going to put you in a safer field, you're wrong. I was never in a single crash as a Cat 5, and now this season I've been involved in 3 and was knocked out of contention this past week narrowly avoiding a 4th.
I guess I just need to get stronger and cat up to 3. At least around here it seems to be a much safer/smarter peloton.
Some of it falls on the race organizers, sure, but Reston was NOT a particularly technical course. Get a bunch of overly-aggressive cat 4's and 5's out there lacking perspective about what it is they're really racing for, though, and it's on like Donkey Kong. What makes this even more frustrating is that all of my crashes this year haven't been anything that I've actually done--I've just been stuck behind the crashes and have gotten sucked into them. The one that broke my frame was a "smart" crash on my part where I was barely injured, but then someone else joins the pile-up and lands on my frame, breaking it.
I just don't know how to come to terms with this. There are guys 10 years my junior who are willing to sacrifice themselves and their equipment doing dangerous ***** to win a $50 prize at a race. There are others who don't know what they're doing and don't seem to care. There are plenty of broken bones to go around among the BF racers I know and have ridden with.
Then there are the folks who will say "Well, then don't race crits." It's NOT just crits. The crash that destroyed my Powertap wheel, for instance, was some moron over-reacting to another rider's flat and making a sudden move right into the pack, taking out 6 guys, on a flat, wide-open straightaway in a road race.
I don't know what the point of this little rant actually is, but for any of you out there thinking that upgrading to cat 4 is going to put you in a safer field, you're wrong. I was never in a single crash as a Cat 5, and now this season I've been involved in 3 and was knocked out of contention this past week narrowly avoiding a 4th.
I guess I just need to get stronger and cat up to 3. At least around here it seems to be a much safer/smarter peloton.
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I raced cars for almost 20 years. In that time I had only one accident that I got hurt in, I suffered a major concussion. I've been hurt so many times either training or racing my bike I've lost count. I've scars all over my body to show for it. Yet my wife couldn't wait for me to quit racing cars because she was sure I'd get killed. Go race bikes she said it's safer. Ha, right safer. Bike racing is a dangerous sport, it's why the majority of guys don't do it. They may make other excuses but the bottom line is that they are afraid of getting hurt. I don't think about getting hurt, just like I never thought about crashing while racing cars. I think once that gets into your head you can't race effectively again.
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If you go to the local race track, you'll see guys racing hobby stocks, whatever, and doing a lousy job because they don't have the skills and they don't do it all the time. Same thing here.
A real difference between club racing in Europe and here is that the clubs are organized with coaches that teach racing and bike handling technique. Here, you buy a bike, plunks down yer money and go racin'. I've watched a few of the 4 and 5 races. It's positively frightening. Head down sprints. No sense of other riders. By the way, almost all of the guys who sprint with their heads down can't lift them as their bikes are improperly fitted.
I feel for you. I am so very glad that I came out of a system as a junior and never, as an adult, raced in lower classes. I quit racing all together when my employment/career was important enough that being laid up in the hospital was not an option.
A real difference between club racing in Europe and here is that the clubs are organized with coaches that teach racing and bike handling technique. Here, you buy a bike, plunks down yer money and go racin'. I've watched a few of the 4 and 5 races. It's positively frightening. Head down sprints. No sense of other riders. By the way, almost all of the guys who sprint with their heads down can't lift them as their bikes are improperly fitted.
I feel for you. I am so very glad that I came out of a system as a junior and never, as an adult, raced in lower classes. I quit racing all together when my employment/career was important enough that being laid up in the hospital was not an option.
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Pete,
I sympathize with you. I never even saw a crash when I was in cat 5 and so far twice in cat 4 races ive participated in there have been 3+ crashes. Just about every single one of these crashes was on a straight away too. Ive been very lucky to only be involved in one crash so far.
The crash that took me out was on a very non technical course and to make it worse it happened on the part of the course where most people were recovering, a place you would think would be safest. To make things worse it wasnt my fault and there was nothing I could do. I couldnt even react because we were going so fast and it was the guy directly in front of me that went down and took me out.
The worst part about this crash is that its taken me off the bike for several weeks. The first thing I realized while being off the bike is that biking is about all I do these days. Now Im sitting around the house trying to figure out how to pass time until I can go out riding again. That sucks. What ive realized recently is there is a possiblity my arm will never regain full strength and motion. Yikes.
Im planning on racing again as soon as possible. My problem is that I am never racing to win money. Im racing to beat my peers and attempt to be the best and that will always drive me to go as hard as I can and take risks.
I am already nervous about my first race back. I dont know what its going to feel like lining up or seeing someone riding sketchy. I didnt learn much from my accident. The guy I was following and went down was riding smoothly. He wasnt all over the place or anything like that. He just made a simple mistake that will be hard to look out for in other races. I cant avoid that.
Most likely my racing style and training will change. I will probably be in the front and attack a lot since its harder for someone to take you out if they are behind you.
I will also probably be more selective in my choice of races. To this point ive raced about 20 times this year and that was in every race I could attend, sometimes racing twice in a day. I never cared about the course or the field, if there was competing to be done I was there. Next year I may only do the courses I thought were fun and interesting. Im missing out on a lot of the good races this season because I got taken out in an industrial park. I hate that.
As much as I want to upgrade to 3 and then maybe 2 one day I may just race masters events instead.
Its funny. My other hobby is skateboarding in pools and vert which is also very dangerous but because I mainly only have to worry about hurting myself and not someone else hurting me I look at it entirely different.
I sympathize with you. I never even saw a crash when I was in cat 5 and so far twice in cat 4 races ive participated in there have been 3+ crashes. Just about every single one of these crashes was on a straight away too. Ive been very lucky to only be involved in one crash so far.
The crash that took me out was on a very non technical course and to make it worse it happened on the part of the course where most people were recovering, a place you would think would be safest. To make things worse it wasnt my fault and there was nothing I could do. I couldnt even react because we were going so fast and it was the guy directly in front of me that went down and took me out.
The worst part about this crash is that its taken me off the bike for several weeks. The first thing I realized while being off the bike is that biking is about all I do these days. Now Im sitting around the house trying to figure out how to pass time until I can go out riding again. That sucks. What ive realized recently is there is a possiblity my arm will never regain full strength and motion. Yikes.
Im planning on racing again as soon as possible. My problem is that I am never racing to win money. Im racing to beat my peers and attempt to be the best and that will always drive me to go as hard as I can and take risks.
I am already nervous about my first race back. I dont know what its going to feel like lining up or seeing someone riding sketchy. I didnt learn much from my accident. The guy I was following and went down was riding smoothly. He wasnt all over the place or anything like that. He just made a simple mistake that will be hard to look out for in other races. I cant avoid that.
Most likely my racing style and training will change. I will probably be in the front and attack a lot since its harder for someone to take you out if they are behind you.
I will also probably be more selective in my choice of races. To this point ive raced about 20 times this year and that was in every race I could attend, sometimes racing twice in a day. I never cared about the course or the field, if there was competing to be done I was there. Next year I may only do the courses I thought were fun and interesting. Im missing out on a lot of the good races this season because I got taken out in an industrial park. I hate that.
As much as I want to upgrade to 3 and then maybe 2 one day I may just race masters events instead.
Its funny. My other hobby is skateboarding in pools and vert which is also very dangerous but because I mainly only have to worry about hurting myself and not someone else hurting me I look at it entirely different.
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Originally Posted by DrPete
I guess I just need to get stronger and cat up to 3. At least around here it seems to be a much safer/smarter peloton.
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riskus beat me to it.
DrPete, are you able to stay in the first 5 to 10 guys? It's easier to race up there sometimes, especially in cat4/5 to avoid what you describe and better maintain speed.
DrPete, are you able to stay in the first 5 to 10 guys? It's easier to race up there sometimes, especially in cat4/5 to avoid what you describe and better maintain speed.
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Originally Posted by within
riskus beat me to it.
DrPete, are you able to stay in the first 5 to 10 guys? It's easier to race up there sometimes, especially in cat4/5 to avoid what you describe and better maintain speed.
DrPete, are you able to stay in the first 5 to 10 guys? It's easier to race up there sometimes, especially in cat4/5 to avoid what you describe and better maintain speed.
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Originally Posted by DrPete
All three of my crashes this season were also in the front third of the pack. I was 7th-8th wheel right before the crash that broke my frame.
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Originally Posted by riskus
This is why we need to get faster so we can string out the fields and maybe drop some people so there are less to crash us out.
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just have to get stronger and break away then. At this point id rather blow myself up trying to get away and dnf then live in the pack were I might be crashed out.
Are you talking about that one guy from poolesville? He is still causing problems?
Are you talking about that one guy from poolesville? He is still causing problems?
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Originally Posted by riskus
Are you talking about that one guy from poolesville? He is still causing problems?
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unfortunately i dont have to worry about those races for a while. I should probably try to sell my card with 2 races left on it now that i think about it
#13
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Yeah, it's dangerous. In my first M35+ race this year, there was a crash where two guys went down and both broke bones (one was a hip!). In another race (P/1/2) two of our stronger local riders (Sol Frost and Robbie Robinette) both crashed in the same wreck and broke bones (one collar and one wrist). They're really skilled Cat 1 and Cat 2 riders. There's no avoiding people who crash.
I agree that you can avoid people who take crazy risks, and masters may be the best place to do that. The problem is that bike racing itself is a crazy risk, so everyone in a race is automatically someone you want to avoid
I've been very lucky in that I've only crashed in a race once. It was my fault (I had soloed off, and when a guy bridged, I didn't have the concentration in my oxygen debt to prevent a wheel overlap). That crash was after 6 years of racing.
Other than that, I've had crashes happen in front of me, beside me, and behind me. In nearly every race I've done. I've had guys nail me from the side and go down, and guys overlap my wheel and I could feel them going down. I've ridden over the top of a bike and leg of a downed rider (no chance to do otherwise), and got 3rd in that race. I've caught pedals, slid on manhole covers, ridden straight into ditches, but somehow I stay up.
That said, I'm very afraid of getting hurt. Those guys who crashed in the M35+ pack really shook me up. I swear I could hear a bone break -- it just didn't sound like a bike part. In my little training spill 2 weeks ago, I'm amazed at how hurt I got just falling over at 6mph.
Like you, I'm not sure what my point is, but yeah, it's scary. The adrenaline is probably part of why we do it in spite of the fear.
I agree that you can avoid people who take crazy risks, and masters may be the best place to do that. The problem is that bike racing itself is a crazy risk, so everyone in a race is automatically someone you want to avoid
I've been very lucky in that I've only crashed in a race once. It was my fault (I had soloed off, and when a guy bridged, I didn't have the concentration in my oxygen debt to prevent a wheel overlap). That crash was after 6 years of racing.
Other than that, I've had crashes happen in front of me, beside me, and behind me. In nearly every race I've done. I've had guys nail me from the side and go down, and guys overlap my wheel and I could feel them going down. I've ridden over the top of a bike and leg of a downed rider (no chance to do otherwise), and got 3rd in that race. I've caught pedals, slid on manhole covers, ridden straight into ditches, but somehow I stay up.
That said, I'm very afraid of getting hurt. Those guys who crashed in the M35+ pack really shook me up. I swear I could hear a bone break -- it just didn't sound like a bike part. In my little training spill 2 weeks ago, I'm amazed at how hurt I got just falling over at 6mph.
Like you, I'm not sure what my point is, but yeah, it's scary. The adrenaline is probably part of why we do it in spite of the fear.
#14
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Originally Posted by DrPete
I don't know what the point of this little rant actually is, but for any of you out there thinking that upgrading to cat 4 is going to put you in a safer field, you're wrong. I was never in a single crash as a Cat 5, and now this season I've been involved in 3 and was knocked out of contention this past week narrowly avoiding a 4th.
I guess I just need to get stronger and cat up to 3. At least around here it seems to be a much safer/smarter peloton.
I guess I just need to get stronger and cat up to 3. At least around here it seems to be a much safer/smarter peloton.
I would agree with the sentiment that decline of the club system, and Jr. coaching are major issues contributing to this. It's sink or swim.
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[QUOTE=riskus]
As much as I want to upgrade to 3 and then maybe 2 one day I may just race masters events instead.
QUOTE]
Riskus, you can achiveve your goal of becoming a 2 or 3 by competing in Masters races. They are MUCH safer! Iraced the 4s for years and sometimes they were safe, and sometime they were sketchy, but the Master races are almost always fast and safe. It also seems that the teamwork you see in Masters races makes them safer too. The teams send guys up the road, block, provide lead outs etc which makes the racing more strategic and prevents the typical scenario you find in the 4s w 75 guys all going for the line.
I shake my head and ask myself why whenever I see friends who are 35+ or 45+ racing in the 4s.
gene r
ps: if you REALLY want to experience fun 4s racing head to NCal in April and do the Masters 35+ or 45+ (yes they have enough riders to seperate the fields) Cat IV/V RRs. Safe, fast and epic, challenging courses like Wente and Copperopolis.
As much as I want to upgrade to 3 and then maybe 2 one day I may just race masters events instead.
QUOTE]
Riskus, you can achiveve your goal of becoming a 2 or 3 by competing in Masters races. They are MUCH safer! Iraced the 4s for years and sometimes they were safe, and sometime they were sketchy, but the Master races are almost always fast and safe. It also seems that the teamwork you see in Masters races makes them safer too. The teams send guys up the road, block, provide lead outs etc which makes the racing more strategic and prevents the typical scenario you find in the 4s w 75 guys all going for the line.
I shake my head and ask myself why whenever I see friends who are 35+ or 45+ racing in the 4s.
gene r
ps: if you REALLY want to experience fun 4s racing head to NCal in April and do the Masters 35+ or 45+ (yes they have enough riders to seperate the fields) Cat IV/V RRs. Safe, fast and epic, challenging courses like Wente and Copperopolis.
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Originally Posted by LT Intolerant
I shake my head and ask myself why whenever I see friends who are 35+ or 45+ racing in the 4s.
gene r
ps: if you REALLY want to experience fun 4s racing head to NCal in April and do the Masters 35+ or 45+ (yes they have enough riders to seperate the fields) Cat IV/V RRs. Safe, fast and epic, challenging courses like Wente and Copperopolis.
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the risk of injury comes with the game. You have to decide if it's worth it. There will always be crashes. The higher up you go, they're just faster crashes.
Couple of observations:
1)If it gets you off the couch, i bet eliminating the sedentary lifestyle risk factor more than offsets the risk;
2)I think the risk of serious injury or death is lower racing, than just ridingon open roads;
3) Your personal risk goes down with experience. When I did this in my 20's my first 2 seasons I had several crashes; most of which were either my fault, or could have at least have been avoided with better skills. Now older, and hopefully a little wiser, I've had one crash in 20 races, and it was pretty minor.
Couple of observations:
1)If it gets you off the couch, i bet eliminating the sedentary lifestyle risk factor more than offsets the risk;
2)I think the risk of serious injury or death is lower racing, than just ridingon open roads;
3) Your personal risk goes down with experience. When I did this in my 20's my first 2 seasons I had several crashes; most of which were either my fault, or could have at least have been avoided with better skills. Now older, and hopefully a little wiser, I've had one crash in 20 races, and it was pretty minor.
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
the risk of injury comes with the game. You have to decide if it's worth it. There will always be crashes. The higher up you go, they're just faster crashes.
Couple of observations:
1)If it gets you off the couch, i bet eliminating the sedentary lifestyle risk factor more than offsets the risk;
2)I think the risk of serious injury or death is lower racing, than just ridingon open roads;
3) Your personal risk goes down with experience. When I did this in my 20's my first 2 seasons I had several crashes; most of which were either my fault, or could have at least have been avoided with better skills. Now older, and hopefully a little wiser, I've had one crash in 20 races, and it was pretty minor.
Couple of observations:
1)If it gets you off the couch, i bet eliminating the sedentary lifestyle risk factor more than offsets the risk;
2)I think the risk of serious injury or death is lower racing, than just ridingon open roads;
3) Your personal risk goes down with experience. When I did this in my 20's my first 2 seasons I had several crashes; most of which were either my fault, or could have at least have been avoided with better skills. Now older, and hopefully a little wiser, I've had one crash in 20 races, and it was pretty minor.
2) Even minor injuries can cause lost work time, especially for someone who needs both hands to be wound-free to do his job. Sure it's less severe than getting run over by a car, but I'm just as useless at work with a broken collarbone as I am sitting in a hospital bed.
3) I agree with this. I think that maybe, with some quick thinking and some better choices of line, I may have been able to ride around these crashes. I'm not sure, though. But I do agree that more experience can only help.
I'm not ready to tear up my racing license or anything, but I just wish that people placed more value on riding safely/intelligently than they do here in my local cat 4 peloton. I mean hell--there have been crashes just about every week in our training series this summer. That's a problem IMHO. How to fix it? I have no idea. But MABRA doesn't seem to care, the clubs don't really do anything (for the most part--our club has a skills and drills clinic every winter that I think is a good step, but not mandatory), and the sketchy unattached riders who get reported to officials continue to race.
Incidentally, I found out that the rider who landed on top of my frame last week and the rider who caused the crash I avoided this week was someone who was in the wrong cat to be racing the B race, but was allowed to because she's a "strong rider." This past week she went down after some contact, apparently while she was trying to put away a water bottle.
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+1 on racing Masters. I've done a few Master's races and feel far safer in the pack than any 4/5 field. Riders in those fields seem to be much more predictable. Plus, I think most of them realize that crashes at 40 plus years of age suck and aren't worth the risk. A lot of these guys are family men with mortgages and losing skin can have more of a potential impact on their livelihood.
Also, Masters is much more fun. It's faster and people actually use strategy. None of this just sit in without attacking so everyone is in a 30 rider bunch sprint at every race. In other words, they really race. Next season, I doubt I'll race the threes much and mostly do Masters.
Also, Masters is much more fun. It's faster and people actually use strategy. None of this just sit in without attacking so everyone is in a 30 rider bunch sprint at every race. In other words, they really race. Next season, I doubt I'll race the threes much and mostly do Masters.
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I had no troube in the 5’s, but the 4’s have been crash central. I think going from a 50 to 100 man field has a lot to do with it. There’s also too many kids who’ll risk life and limb sprinting for 65th place.
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Originally Posted by spunky
+1 on racing Masters. I've done a few Master's races and feel far safer in the pack than any 4/5 field. Riders in those fields seem to be much more predictable. Plus, I think most of them realize that crashes at 40 plus years of age suck and aren't worth the risk. A lot of these guys are family men with mortgages and losing skin can have more of a potential impact on their livelihood.
Also, Masters is much more fun. It's faster and people actually use strategy. None of this just sit in without attacking so everyone is in a 30 rider bunch sprint at every race. In other words, they really race. Next season, I doubt I'll race the threes much and mostly do Masters.
Also, Masters is much more fun. It's faster and people actually use strategy. None of this just sit in without attacking so everyone is in a 30 rider bunch sprint at every race. In other words, they really race. Next season, I doubt I'll race the threes much and mostly do Masters.
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#22
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Originally Posted by spunky
+1 on racing Masters. I've done a few Master's races and feel far safer in the pack than any 4/5 field. Riders in those fields seem to be much more predictable. Plus, I think most of them realize that crashes at 40 plus years of age suck and aren't worth the risk. A lot of these guys are family men with mortgages and losing skin can have more of a potential impact on their livelihood.
Also, Masters is much more fun. It's faster and people actually use strategy. None of this just sit in without attacking so everyone is in a 30 rider bunch sprint at every race. In other words, they really race. Next season, I doubt I'll race the threes much and mostly do Masters.
Also, Masters is much more fun. It's faster and people actually use strategy. None of this just sit in without attacking so everyone is in a 30 rider bunch sprint at every race. In other words, they really race. Next season, I doubt I'll race the threes much and mostly do Masters.
I guess I am glad I race in the W4. We have far less crashes than the men.
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Originally Posted by Snicklefritz
Are the masters divisions faster because they're open (simply 35+ or 45+) where you have 1's and 2's in there?
I guess I am glad I race in the W4. We have far less crashes than the men.
I guess I am glad I race in the W4. We have far less crashes than the men.
#24
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Originally Posted by DrPete
1) There are plenty of less violent ways to get off the couch.
2) Even minor injuries can cause lost work time, especially for someone who needs both hands to be wound-free to do his job.
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Originally Posted by DrPete
3) I agree with this. I think that maybe, with some quick thinking and some better choices of line, I may have been able to ride around these crashes. I'm not sure, though. But I do agree that more experience can only help.