Ordered my Greenspeed Scorchers
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Ordered my Greenspeed Scorchers
The wait is finally over. I found a US distributor of Greenspeed tires (in-stock today) in Calhoun Cycles.
As you may or may not have heard, there's been much hype surrounding these tires, and soon I'll get to debunk a bit of that hype with some real-world, two-wheeled, folding-bike commuter mileage (these tires have so far only been reviewed mounted on trikes).
The Scorchers will be replacing my already-fast Comet Kevlar 20x1.35 tires, and after putting over a thousand commuting miles on them, any performance advantage/disadvantage from the Scorchers should be pretty apparent from the get-go.
I'll keep you posted.
As you may or may not have heard, there's been much hype surrounding these tires, and soon I'll get to debunk a bit of that hype with some real-world, two-wheeled, folding-bike commuter mileage (these tires have so far only been reviewed mounted on trikes).
The Scorchers will be replacing my already-fast Comet Kevlar 20x1.35 tires, and after putting over a thousand commuting miles on them, any performance advantage/disadvantage from the Scorchers should be pretty apparent from the get-go.
I'll keep you posted.
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I've tried them. They are fast. Too bad only in the 406 and 349 sizes. I am in the process of doing some roll-down testing on them but it is such a pain to swap tires out quick enough that environmental factors don't affect the consistency of the results and I don't have a spare set of rims to use either.
I edited my post as I made a typo. I mean to write 349. That was the standard tire size for many of the Greenspeed trikes and same size as the Brompton and Merc.
I edited my post as I made a typo. I mean to write 349. That was the standard tire size for many of the Greenspeed trikes and same size as the Brompton and Merc.
Last edited by Wavshrdr; 06-25-06 at 08:30 AM.
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I have non-kevlar Scorchers in the 406 size (they are also available in the 349 size, not the 355 size) and they feel fast. I have the front and rear at 100 and 95 psi respectively. I am not in a position to provide rolling resistance comparisons, but Greenspeed have released data. Unfortunately the tests did not include the Stelvio, Marathon Racer or Big Apple.
Last edited by Fear&Trembling; 06-25-06 at 02:30 AM.
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I have both the 349's and 406's. I want to try them on my Merc too. The early runs had some issues in sizing for the 349 size. I haven't heard of any issues in the 406 and the 349's have been fixed. I have the Sun CR18 rims for my Swift and there were no issues there. I have the Brompton Green tires on my Merc which are a very fast tire anyway according to GS's testing and my experience bears that out.
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I just got the scorchers and mounted them on my Swift. Here are a few preliminary impressions:
1.) The tires are easy to mount. Almost too easy. No tools required! Which kind of worries me, particularly the fear of the bead blowing off the rim. In contrast, the Comets are tough to put on and take off and require a tire lever. The Scorchers can easily be installed by hand.
2.) The sidewalls feel really thin and flexy, which almost fooled me into thinking they were kevlar beaded. It's probably why the tires are so easy to install.
3.) There's an overall feel of less material in the tire than I would expect out of a 20 x 1.50. The weight difference between the 20x1.35 Comets and 20x1.50 Scorchers (55gm) is almost undetectable when hefting the two tires. These tires are light for their size.
The Scorchers remind me of the Michelin 700C racing slicks way back when. Slick, supple, and sticky.
I'll give a first-ride report tomorrow.
1.) The tires are easy to mount. Almost too easy. No tools required! Which kind of worries me, particularly the fear of the bead blowing off the rim. In contrast, the Comets are tough to put on and take off and require a tire lever. The Scorchers can easily be installed by hand.
2.) The sidewalls feel really thin and flexy, which almost fooled me into thinking they were kevlar beaded. It's probably why the tires are so easy to install.
3.) There's an overall feel of less material in the tire than I would expect out of a 20 x 1.50. The weight difference between the 20x1.35 Comets and 20x1.50 Scorchers (55gm) is almost undetectable when hefting the two tires. These tires are light for their size.
The Scorchers remind me of the Michelin 700C racing slicks way back when. Slick, supple, and sticky.
I'll give a first-ride report tomorrow.
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I revoked my previous review because I forgot to re-calibrate my cyclometer. I'll do another one for the commute home later today.
Last edited by james_swift; 06-29-06 at 11:33 AM.
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James - Did you recalibrate your cyclocomputer with the new tire diameter? ... EDIT - uh nevermind...
Last edited by dalmore; 06-29-06 at 12:28 PM.
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Originally Posted by dalmore
James - Did you recalibrate your cyclocomputer with the new tire diameter? ... EDIT - uh nevermind...
The Scorchers are sluggish off start, and sluggish in sprints. They seem to not want to respond as quickly as the 1.35 Comets to big inputs of force on the pedals. At low speeds, they actually feel no faster than the Comets, in spite of their claimed low rolling resistance. If you're looking to be impressed in stop-n-start mad city dashes, you'll be very disappointed.
Although the Scorchers are lazy on start-up, once you get them rolling past the 12 mph zone, they seem to shine from there on. It's clear that these tires were made for top-end. Bring them past 15mph with steady but moderate input and they just keep rolling faster and faster. At 17.5 mph and higher, the Comets begin to fight back with every pedal stroke. The Scorchers, on the other hand, seem to ask for more and more speed. It's at these higher speeds that the low rolling resistance of the Scorchers is most obvious. They roll right up to speed, and stay there.
The cyclometer was showing speeds of 1 - 1.5 mph faster than normal today. Headwinds on my evening commute are the norm, and today was no exception.
I wouldn't categorize the Scorchers as a holeshot tire by any means. They don't "Scorch" in that sense. They're more like velodrome tires were sustained high speed is the goal.
Perhaps that explains why the Greenspeed rolling resistance test was performed at 18.6 mph (30kph).
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How about comfort? Are they smooooth over bumps?
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How about comfort? Are they smooooth over bumps?
Although the Scorchers are lazy on start-up, once you get them rolling past the 12 mph zone, they seem to shine from there on
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Originally Posted by Fear&Trembling
I would say they are certainly better than Stelvios (not particularly illuminating I know) and they are about on par with Marathon Racers...
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Speaking of the Racers, how would you compare them to the Scorchers (or even the Sport Contacts) - more specifically, which would you buy again?
I think I will be sticking with the non-Kevlar Scorchers for now, but I want to see how puncture proof they are and how long the rubber lasts.
Stelvios are prone to punctures (at least in my experience), but they are quick.
Scientific data is lacking (A to B did compare the 349 size Scorcher and Stelvio) but I wouldn’t be surprised if in the 406 size, the Stelvio had the edge on rolling resistance.
Why don’t you see if you can squeeze a Scorcher on your brommie?
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Originally Posted by Fear&Trembling
... Why don’t you see if you can squeeze a Scorcher on your brommie?
Besides, I'm on the Bike Friday exclusively nowadays, and am trying out the high pressure 20"x1.5" Kenda Kwests. Next will be 20"x1.25" IRC Metros. (This after having the Grand Prixs for a year and a half, and recently noticing fraying in one tire's sidewall.)
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Originally Posted by spambait11
How about comfort? Are they smooooth over bumps?
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I took my Swift w/Scorchers out for a 10-mile loop through the city. Here are my thoughts:
These tires suck for city riding, where constant start-n-stops and yellow-light mad-dashes are king. I found myself out-of-the-saddle longer and pedaling harder to get from from zero-14mph than with my Comets. This is obviously NOT the ideal way to ride the city (unless you're aiming for a max calorie burn). I can best describe the standing acceleration of these tires as like I were towing a trailor. No exaggeration.
From 0-15mph, these tires feel like they're rolling through wet tar. That's the biggest problem with these tires: ~15mph is the average cruising speed in the city, given all the stops and starts, traffic-dodging, and sidewalk-surfing. An ideal city tire should blitz in this zone, and the Scorchers are absolute slugs.
Now on to the positives. Push these tires past the 15.5mph mark, and it's as if the trailor you've been towing was suddenly unhitched. I don't know what it is with these tires at higher speeds, if the centrifugal force dramatically alters the shape of the tire or what, but they really do move once you're in the tire's sweet-spot of 16mph. The same goes for sprinting. Sprint for a yellow light from 16.5mph, and the tires transform from slugs to "Scorchers". So long as I timed my sprint from 16.5mph, I was easily able to rocket through intersections in time to catch most red-lights (depending on distance).
I took delivery of a new set of Comet Kevlar 1.50s for my Dahon. I was surprised to see that these tires, in the same size as the Scorchers but higher weight, accelerated quicker and rolled faster at low speed on my Dahon than the Scorchers do on my Swift. They felt lighter on the road than the Scorchers, even though they are actually 10 grams heavier! For a fair comparison, I'm going to mount the 1.50 Comets on my Swift and go for the same 10-mile ride.
These tires suck for city riding, where constant start-n-stops and yellow-light mad-dashes are king. I found myself out-of-the-saddle longer and pedaling harder to get from from zero-14mph than with my Comets. This is obviously NOT the ideal way to ride the city (unless you're aiming for a max calorie burn). I can best describe the standing acceleration of these tires as like I were towing a trailor. No exaggeration.
From 0-15mph, these tires feel like they're rolling through wet tar. That's the biggest problem with these tires: ~15mph is the average cruising speed in the city, given all the stops and starts, traffic-dodging, and sidewalk-surfing. An ideal city tire should blitz in this zone, and the Scorchers are absolute slugs.
Now on to the positives. Push these tires past the 15.5mph mark, and it's as if the trailor you've been towing was suddenly unhitched. I don't know what it is with these tires at higher speeds, if the centrifugal force dramatically alters the shape of the tire or what, but they really do move once you're in the tire's sweet-spot of 16mph. The same goes for sprinting. Sprint for a yellow light from 16.5mph, and the tires transform from slugs to "Scorchers". So long as I timed my sprint from 16.5mph, I was easily able to rocket through intersections in time to catch most red-lights (depending on distance).
I took delivery of a new set of Comet Kevlar 1.50s for my Dahon. I was surprised to see that these tires, in the same size as the Scorchers but higher weight, accelerated quicker and rolled faster at low speed on my Dahon than the Scorchers do on my Swift. They felt lighter on the road than the Scorchers, even though they are actually 10 grams heavier! For a fair comparison, I'm going to mount the 1.50 Comets on my Swift and go for the same 10-mile ride.
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Originally Posted by james_swift
I took my Swift w/Scorchers out for a 10-mile loop through the city. Here are my thoughts:
I took delivery of a new set of Comet Kevlar 1.50s for my Dahon. I was surprised to see that these tires, in the same size as the Scorchers but higher weight, accelerated quicker and rolled faster at low speed on my Dahon than the Scorchers do on my Swift. They felt lighter on the road than the Scorchers, even though they are actually 10 grams heavier! For a fair comparison, I'm going to mount the 1.50 Comets on my Swift and go for the same 10-mile ride.
I took delivery of a new set of Comet Kevlar 1.50s for my Dahon. I was surprised to see that these tires, in the same size as the Scorchers but higher weight, accelerated quicker and rolled faster at low speed on my Dahon than the Scorchers do on my Swift. They felt lighter on the road than the Scorchers, even though they are actually 10 grams heavier! For a fair comparison, I'm going to mount the 1.50 Comets on my Swift and go for the same 10-mile ride.
Bruce
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Originally Posted by BruceMetras
James, does your Dahon still have a hub gear rear wheel or did you change it out to single speed like your Swift?
Bruce
Bruce
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I peeled-off the Scorchers and threw-on the Comet 1.50s and hit the city streets a second time. Here's the low-down:
As I suspected, the Comets are quicker from 0-15mph. There just isn't as much rolling resistance in this zone as there is with the Scorchers. Stand on the pedals and the tires respond, while the Scorchers seem to just suck the road surface as if they'r running at 60psi. The Comets are "looser" at these speeds, while the Scorchers are "stickier".
Moving out of 15mph and into the higher-end, at 16mph, the Comets are still rolling nicely and picking-up speed. Push them past 17.5mph into 18.5mph, and the tires slowly start to feel heavy at the pedals. At these speeds, the Scorchers feel nice and light at the pedals, and take very little to coax them to 19mph. At 19.5mph, the Comets require more effort to maintain speed than do the Scorchers. The Scorchers seem to open-up at these speeds, while the Comets slowly and gradually start to close shop.
High-speed acceleration from 16.5mph, the Comets weren't as impressive. I couldn't rocket through the same intersections the way that I did on the Scorchers earlier. The Comets would roll steadily and predictably up to speed, with resistance at the pedals increasing proprotionately. The kicker with the Scorchers is that they would blast up to speed without the noticeable increase in resistance at the pedals, leaving plenty of headroom to push them to the limits of your gearing.
How about ride comfort? I ran both tires at 90psi. The Comets were noticeably smoother over bumps.
In conclusion, the Scorchers are a highly specialized tire. It's apparent that they were designed on a dyno to be optimized for a certain speed range. The Comets, on the other hand, feel like they were designed for more real-world performance. I would say that the 1.50 Comets make an ideal city tire, providing a good balance of low-mid speed performance, and comfort (I recommend 90psi). If you're looking for a tire for more suburban terrain, or a tire that is optimized for long, sustained high-speed rides, then the Scorcher is the one for the job.
As I suspected, the Comets are quicker from 0-15mph. There just isn't as much rolling resistance in this zone as there is with the Scorchers. Stand on the pedals and the tires respond, while the Scorchers seem to just suck the road surface as if they'r running at 60psi. The Comets are "looser" at these speeds, while the Scorchers are "stickier".
Moving out of 15mph and into the higher-end, at 16mph, the Comets are still rolling nicely and picking-up speed. Push them past 17.5mph into 18.5mph, and the tires slowly start to feel heavy at the pedals. At these speeds, the Scorchers feel nice and light at the pedals, and take very little to coax them to 19mph. At 19.5mph, the Comets require more effort to maintain speed than do the Scorchers. The Scorchers seem to open-up at these speeds, while the Comets slowly and gradually start to close shop.
High-speed acceleration from 16.5mph, the Comets weren't as impressive. I couldn't rocket through the same intersections the way that I did on the Scorchers earlier. The Comets would roll steadily and predictably up to speed, with resistance at the pedals increasing proprotionately. The kicker with the Scorchers is that they would blast up to speed without the noticeable increase in resistance at the pedals, leaving plenty of headroom to push them to the limits of your gearing.
How about ride comfort? I ran both tires at 90psi. The Comets were noticeably smoother over bumps.
In conclusion, the Scorchers are a highly specialized tire. It's apparent that they were designed on a dyno to be optimized for a certain speed range. The Comets, on the other hand, feel like they were designed for more real-world performance. I would say that the 1.50 Comets make an ideal city tire, providing a good balance of low-mid speed performance, and comfort (I recommend 90psi). If you're looking for a tire for more suburban terrain, or a tire that is optimized for long, sustained high-speed rides, then the Scorcher is the one for the job.
Last edited by james_swift; 07-03-06 at 07:54 AM.
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Yesterday was the first time I rode the scorchers in the wet and I came off on a bend. They did not inspire me with confidence prior to the spill (lost purchase earlier when accelerating) and I am now wary of their wet weather performance. I am now biased, but I doubt I will use them as a winter tyre.
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Originally Posted by Fear&Trembling
Yesterday was the first time I rode the scorchers in the wet and I came off on a bend. They did not inspire me with confidence prior to the spill (lost purchase earlier when accelerating) and I am now wary of their wet weather performance. I am now biased, but I doubt I will use them as a winter tyre.
The first thing I thought when I got these tires is I'd never ride these in the rain. I'm wary enough going over manhole covers in corners in dry weather. But since my last 2 nasty surprises with rusted componenets on my Swift, I figure I won't be taking the bike out in anything but dry weather anyway.
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Hm. I know this tire was meant to compete with the Comp Pool, but maybe they're really best used on trikes. Heal soon.
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The first thing I thought when I got these tires is I'd never ride these in the rain.
I know this tire was meant to compete with the Comp Pool, but maybe they're really best used on trikes.
I will probably go back to my original set-up, which worked well!
Heal soon.