Indurain vs Armstrong
#1
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#2
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Originally Posted by EURO
Corsaire
#3
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Cool. Who would've know what was to happen a few years later. I wonder how many backmarkers of today are future Tour champions.
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Last edited by cydewaze; 05-04-06 at 08:22 AM.
#4
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That goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back to when Lance was the defending World Champion (1993 champion, 1994 season)
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Yeah, it is a real disgrace to get passed by a 5 time grand tour champion Just ask Jan and Ivan how it feels, um, no, wait a minute you would have to ask him what it is like to be passed by a 7 time champion.
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Big Mig was scary. personally, i think he was more personally dominant than Lance; although Lance may have more Tour wins, they are due in no small part to the support of his team. Indurain was like some sort of machine, winning through pure physical ability; Lance was a much more "cerebral" rider, incorporating a complex team strategy to stay in front. this isn't to say Indurain wasn't a canny racer; nobody wins five tours without a firm grasp of strategy. but it was his unstoppable power in the time trials and climbing ability that made him a winner...
#8
Former Hoarder
English Mincemeat Pies
eight 2-1/2 inch pie shells
1-1/2 cups mincemeat
Mincemeat Filling (yields 3 qts)
1/2 lb beef suet, chopped fine
4 cups seedless raisins
2 cups dried currants
1 cup coarsely chopped almonds
1/2 cup coarsely chopped candied citron
1/2 cup coarsely chopped dried figs
1/2 cup coarsely chopped candied orange peel
1/4 cup coarsely chopped candied lemon peel
4 cups coarsely chopped, peeled and cored cooking apples
1 & 1/4 cups sugar
1 tsp nutmeg
1 tsp allspice
1 tsp cinnamon
1/2 tsp cloves
2 & 1/2 cups brandy
1 cup dry sherry
Combine the suet, raisins, currants, almonds, citron, figs, orange peel, lemon peel, apples, sugar, nutmeg, allspice, cinnamon, and cloves in a large mixing bowl and stir them together thoroughly.
Pour in the brandy and the sherry and stir with a large spoon until all the ingredients are moist.
Cover the bowl and set the ingredients aside in a cool place (do not refrigerate) for at least 3 weeks. Check the mixture each week and replenish the absorbed liquor with more brandy and sherry, using about 1/4 cup each time.
Preheat the oven to 375 degrees F.
Place about 3 tbsp of mincemeat into each pastry shell and cover with sheet of pastry, crimping the edges with a fork.
Place the stuffed pies on a baking sheet and bake in the oven for 10 minutes. Reduce the heat to 350 degrees F and bake for an additional 20 minutes or until the crust is golden brown.
Let pies cool then remove from tin and serve with whipped cream or Brandy Butter.
eight 2-1/2 inch pie shells
1-1/2 cups mincemeat
Mincemeat Filling (yields 3 qts)
1/2 lb beef suet, chopped fine
4 cups seedless raisins
2 cups dried currants
1 cup coarsely chopped almonds
1/2 cup coarsely chopped candied citron
1/2 cup coarsely chopped dried figs
1/2 cup coarsely chopped candied orange peel
1/4 cup coarsely chopped candied lemon peel
4 cups coarsely chopped, peeled and cored cooking apples
1 & 1/4 cups sugar
1 tsp nutmeg
1 tsp allspice
1 tsp cinnamon
1/2 tsp cloves
2 & 1/2 cups brandy
1 cup dry sherry
Combine the suet, raisins, currants, almonds, citron, figs, orange peel, lemon peel, apples, sugar, nutmeg, allspice, cinnamon, and cloves in a large mixing bowl and stir them together thoroughly.
Pour in the brandy and the sherry and stir with a large spoon until all the ingredients are moist.
Cover the bowl and set the ingredients aside in a cool place (do not refrigerate) for at least 3 weeks. Check the mixture each week and replenish the absorbed liquor with more brandy and sherry, using about 1/4 cup each time.
Preheat the oven to 375 degrees F.
Place about 3 tbsp of mincemeat into each pastry shell and cover with sheet of pastry, crimping the edges with a fork.
Place the stuffed pies on a baking sheet and bake in the oven for 10 minutes. Reduce the heat to 350 degrees F and bake for an additional 20 minutes or until the crust is golden brown.
Let pies cool then remove from tin and serve with whipped cream or Brandy Butter.
#9
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hehe - good vid. Armstrong has obviously learned a lot about TT since then.
Good gawd - Armstrong not personally intimidating? Did you see him crush all comers when he was seperated from his team last year? Basso, Ulrich, Vino - they couldn't touch him.
Good gawd - Armstrong not personally intimidating? Did you see him crush all comers when he was seperated from his team last year? Basso, Ulrich, Vino - they couldn't touch him.
#10
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Originally Posted by jhota
Big Mig was scary.
Originally Posted by jhota
personally, i think he was more personally dominant than Lance; although Lance may have more Tour wins, they are due in no small part to the support of his team.
1991 TdF Team Winner: Banesto
31 Pedro Delgado
32 Marino Alonso
33 Dominique Arnaud
34 Jean Francois Bernard
35 Miguel Induráin
36 Luis Javier Lukin
37 Fabrice Philipot
38 Jesús Rodríguez Magro
39 Abelardo Rondón
2nd place in TdF Teams Competition: Banesto
1992
1 Miguel Induráin
2 Marino Alonso
3 Jean Francois Bernard
4 Armand De Las Cuevas
5 Pedro Delgado
6 Aitor Garmendia
7 Julián Gorospe
8 Fabrice Philipot
9 José Uriarte Zubero
1993
2 Marino Alonso
3 Jean Francois Bernard
4 Pedro Delgado
5 Aitor Garmendia
6 Julián Gorospe
7 Prudencio Induráin
8 Gérard Rue
9 José Ramón Uriarte
1994
1 Miguel Induráin
2 Marino Alonso
3 Vicente Aparicio
4 Jean Francois Bernard
5 Ramón González Arrieta
6 Melchor Mauri
7 Erwin Nijboer
8 Gérard Rue
9 José Ramón Uriarte
1995
1 Miguel Induráin
2 Marino Alonso
3 Vicente Aparicio
4 Thomas Davy
5 Aitor Garmendia
6 Ramón González Arrieta
7 Carmelo Miranda
8 Gérard Rue
9 José Ramón Uriarte
Originally Posted by jhota
Indurain was like some sort of machine, winning through pure physical ability; Lance was a much more "cerebral" rider, incorporating a complex team strategy to stay in front.
Originally Posted by jhota
it was his unstoppable power in the time trials and climbing ability that made him a winner...
Last edited by botto; 05-04-06 at 08:25 AM.
#11
Scum, Freezebag!
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Pfft!!
Armstrong was a completely different rider back then. Indurain was at the top of his game.
or...
OMYGAWDSSS!!!11lAncE.is.TEH.suxxors!!1
Armstrong was a completely different rider back then. Indurain was at the top of his game.
or...
OMYGAWDSSS!!!11lAncE.is.TEH.suxxors!!1
#12
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Did Indurain race in other races or did he save himself for the TdF?
He won an Olympic gold didn't he?
He won an Olympic gold didn't he?
#13
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Monkey
Did Indurain race in other races or did he save himself for the TdF?
He won an Olympic gold didn't he?
He won an Olympic gold didn't he?
Just a few
Date of birth: 16.07.1964
Birthplace: Villava-Navarra (Spain)
Miguel Ángel Induráin Larraya
Teams:
From 1983 to 1989: Reynolds
From 1990 to 1996: Banesto
" Miguel Ángel Induráin Larraya is a Spanish cyclist. He won the Tour de France from 1991 to 1995, becoming the first person to win the event five consecutive times (Jacques Anquetil was the first to win the event five times non-consecutively).
In 1994 he set a World Hour Record of 53.040 kilometer (circa 32.96 miles). During the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta professional cyclists were allowed to compete for the first time; Induráin won the gold medal in the individual time trial. In 1992 and 1993, years in which he won The Tour, Induráin also won the Giro d'Italia.
Professional.
1985
1st of the 6th stage of the Tour de L'avenir.
1st of the 11th stage C.L.M. of Tour de L'avenir.
2nd of the Overall standing of Ruta Del Sol.
1st of the flying stages of the Tour de Burgos.
Leader during four stages of the du Tour of Spain (Vuelta).
84 th of the Vuelta.
1986
1st of the Tour of C.E.E. (Tour de l'Avenir).
1st of the overall points of the Tour of C.E.E. (Tour de l'Avenir).
1st of the classification team of the Tour of C.E.E. (Tour de l'Avenir).
1st of prologue of the Tour of C.E.E. (Tour de l'Avenir).
1st of the 10th stage C.L.M. of the Tour C.E.E. (Tour de l'Avenir).
1st of the prologue of the Tour of community of Murcie.
1st of the Tour of community of Murcie.
1st of the prologue of the Tour of Burgos.
1st of the flying stage of the Tour of Burgos.
3rd of the Clasic of Cizurkil
6th of the championship of Spain
1987
1st of Overall standing of Vallées Minières.
1st of the 3th, 4th and 5th stages of Vallées Minières.
1st of the Prologue of Tour of Murcie.
1st of the 5th stage of the Week Catalane.
3rd of Overall standing of the week Catalane.
1st of the Mémorial Santi Garcia.
1st of the Subida a Txitxarro.
1st of the Prologue of the Tour of Galice.
2nd of the G.P. Ayuntamiento of Bilbao.
3rd of Overall standing of the Tour of Catalogne.
2nd of the stage of the Tour of Rioja.
4th of the championship of Spain (Véra).
64th of the World Championship (Villach, Austria).
97th of the Tour de France.
99th of the F.I.C.P.standing
1988
1st of the Tour of Catalogne.
1st of the 6th stage of the Tour of Catalagne.
1st of the 6th stage C.L.M. of the Tour of Catalogne.
1st of the stage of the Tour of Cantabrique.
1st of the 2th stage of the Tour of Galice.
1st of the point standing of the Tour of Galice.
3rd of the Overall standing of Tour of Galice.
1st of the 4th stage of the Tour of Catanbria.
1st of the Critérium of Alcobendas. (C.R.E.).
47th in the Tour deFrance.
55th in th Championship of Spain.
80th in the F.I.C.P. standing
1989
1st of Paris-Nice.
1st in the Overall standing of Critérium Internationnal.
1st of the C.L.M. of Critérium Internationnal.
Winnner of the 9th stage of the Tour de France.
17th of the Tour of France.
1st of the Critérium Comunidad Foral.
1st of the Critérium of Manlieu.
10th of the Tour of Switzerland.
2nd of the Subida al Naranco.
3rd in the Championship of Spain.
7th of the Flèche Wallone.
10th of the Liège-Bastone-Liège.
20th in the F.I.C.P. standing
1990
1st of Paris-Nice.
1st of 5th stage of Paris-Nice.
1st of the Classica San-Sébastian. (World Cup).
1st of the first and 5th stage of the Tour of Valence.
1st of the 5th stage of the Tour of Pays Basque.
1st of the 16th stage of the Tour de France at Luz Ardiden.
10th of the overall standing of the Tour de France.
1st of the 6th stage C.L.M. of the Tour of Burgos.
1st of the point standing of the Tour of Burgos.
3rd od the Overall standing of the Tour of Burgos.
1st of the 5th stage of the Tour of Valence.
1st of the Critérium of Tarnos.
3rd of the overall standing of the Tour of Asturies.
3rd of the 2nd stage of the critérium International.
3rd of the championship of Spain.
4th of the Flèche Wallonne.
4th of the Overall standing of the Bicyclette Basque.
7th of the Overall standing of the Vuelta.
12th of the World Championship.
4th in the F.I.C.P. standing
1991
1st of Tour de France.
1st of the Team standing of Tour of France.
1st of the 8th and 21th stage C.L.M. of Tour of France.
1st of the Tour of Catalogne.
1st of the 5th stage C.L.M. and combiny of Tour of Catalogne.
1st of the 2nd ad 5th stage of Bicicleta Elbarresa.
3rd of the overall standing of the Bicicleta Elbarresa.
1st of the first stage C.L.M. of the Tour of Vaucluse.
1st of the moutain standing of trophy Luis Puig.
1st of the Clasica Cinturon of Pamplona.
1st of Critérium of Alquerias.
1st of the Critérium of Alcobendas.
1st of the Critérium of Castellon.
1st of the Critérium of castillon the Bataille.
1st of the Critérium of toulouse.
1st of stage of Subida a Arrate.
2nd of the Vuelta.
2nd of the tropy of Ciudad de Bacelona (Piste).
3rd of the World championship.
3rd of the Circuit of the Aune.
3rd of the Subida of Arrate.
Fouth of Liège-Bastogne-Liège.
2nd of the UCi standing behin G.Bugno
1992
1st of the Tour of France.
1st of the Pologue, 9th and 19th stages C.L.M. of Tour of France.
1st of the Giro of Italia.
1st of the 4th and 22 th stage C.L.M. of Giro of Italia.
1st of the Championship of Spain.
1st of the 4th stage C.L.M. of the the Tour of Romandie.
2nd of the Overall standing of Tour of Romandie.
1st of Prologue of trophy of Castilla-Léon.
4th of the overall standing of Tour of Aragon.
3rd of the overall standing of Paris-Nice.
3rd of the overall standing of the Tour of Oise.
3rd of the Subida a Arrate.
4th of World Championship
1993
1st of the Tour of France.
1st of the Prologue, 9th stage C.L.M of Tour of France.
1st of the Giro of Italia.
1st of the 10th and the 19th stage of Giro d'Italia.
1st of the trophy of Castilla-Léon.
1st of the Prologue dof the trophy Castilla-Léon.
1st of the Clasica of Los Puertos.
1st of the 6th stage C.L.M. of the Tour of Murcie.
1st of the second of the 2nd and 4th stage of Tour of the Vallée Minières.
2nd of the first of the Vallée Minières.
2nd of the Championship of the World.
2nd of the championship of Spain.
2nd of the secand stage of the Tour of Valence.
3rd of the overall standing of the Tour of Valence.
2nd of the Prologue of the Tour of Romandie.
2nd of the first stage of Tour of Catalogne.
Fouth of the Tour of Catalogne
1994
1st of the Tour of France.
1st of the 9th stage of the Tour of France.
1st of the Tour of Oise.
1st of the 3th stage of the Tour of Oise.
1st of the 6th stage C.L.M. of the Tour of Valence.
2nd of the overall standing of the Tour of Valence.
Record of hour (53,040Km).
3rd of the overall standing of the Giro of Italia
1995
1st of the Tour of France.
1st of 8th and 19th stage C.L.M. of the Tour of France.
1st of the Dauphiné-Libéré.
1st of the 4th stage C.L.M. of the dauphinée Libéré.
1st of the Tour of Rioja.
1st of the 1st stage of the Tour of Rioja.
1st of the 6th stage C.L.M. of the Tour of Aragon.
1st f the 1st stage of the Tour of Galice.
1st of the 4th stage of the Tour of Vallées Minières.
3th of the overall standing of the turen of Vallées Minières.
1st of the 1st et 5th stage of the Tour of Asturies.
3rd of the overall standing of the Tour of Asturies.
1st of the Critérium of Moscou.
2nd of the World road championship (Colombia).
6th of the Championship of Spain
1996
Gold medal on olympic games of Atlanta (I.T.T.)
1st Tour of Alentejo.
1st Tour of Murcie.
1st 1st stage C.L.M. of the Tour of Murcie.
1st Bicicleta Vasca.
1st of the point standing of the Bicicleta Vasca.
1st of the 6th stage of the Bicicleta Vasca.
1st of the overall standing of Dauphiné-Libéré.
1st of the 5th stage (C.L.M.) and 6th stage of Dauphiné-Libéré.
1st of the stage C.L.M. of the Tour of Alentejo.
1st of the 1st stage C.L.M. of the Tour of Asturies.
2nd of the clasica a los Puertos.
2nd of the overall standing of the Tour of Burgos.
Best Results:
- Winner of the Tour of France: 1992,1993,1994,1995,1996
- Winner of the Tour of Italy: 1992,1993
- Olympic Champion - chrono: 1996
- World Champion - chrono: 1997
#14
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Can you post Armstrong's record as well?
#15
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Originally Posted by 55/Rad
English Mincemeat Pies
...just sayin'....
#16
Come on you reds!
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how fast was he going to pass lance?
#17
I'm fine.
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Mr. Lance Armstrong
1992
First Union Grand Prix
GP Sanson
Longsjo Classic (1 stage win)
Thrift Drug Classic
Vuelta La Riberia (overall, 3 stages)
Trittico Premondiale (1 stage win)
1993
World Cycling Championship - World Cycling Champion
CoreStates USPro Championship - United States National Cycling Champion
Tour de France (Stage 8)
Tour of America (overall)
Vuelta Ciclista a Galega
Trophee Laigueglia
Tour du Pont (1 stage win)
Tour of Sweden (1 stage win)
Kmart West Virginia Classic (overall, 2 stage wins)
Thrift Drug Classic*
1994
Thrift Drug Classic
Tour du Pont (1 stage win)
1995
Tour de France (Stage 18)
Clasica San Sebastian
Paris-Nice (Stage 5)
Tour du Pont (overall, 3 stage wins)
Kmart West Virginia Classic (overall, 1 stage win)
Tour of America (overall)
1996
Tour du Pont (overall, 5 stage wins)
La Flèche Wallonne
1998
Rheinland-Pfalz Rundfahrt (overall)
Tour de Luxembourg (overall, 1 stage win)
Cascade Classic
1999
Tour de France (overall, 4 stage wins)
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (ITT) (Prologue)
Route du Sud (Stage 4)
Circuit de la Sarthe (ITT) (Stage 4)
2000
Tour de France (overall, 1 stage win)
GP des Nations
GP Eddy Merckx
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (ITT) (Stage 3)
Bronze medal in the 2000 Summer Olympics Individual Time Trial, Men
2001
Tour de France (overall, 4 stage wins)
Tour de Suisse (overall, 2 stage wins)
2002
Tour de France (overall, 4 stage wins)
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (Stage 6)
GP du Midi-Libre
2003
Tour de France (overall, 1 stage win, Team Time Trial)
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (overall, Stage 3 ITT)
2004
Tour de France (overall, 5 stage wins, Team Time Trial)
Tour de Georgia (overall, 2 stage wins)
Tour du Languedoc-Roussillon (Stage 5)
Volta ao Algarve (ITT) (Stage 4)
2005
Tour de France (overall, 2 stage wins, Team Time Trial, Individual Time Trial)
Hm... a bit shorter than our friend Mr. Indurain
1992
First Union Grand Prix
GP Sanson
Longsjo Classic (1 stage win)
Thrift Drug Classic
Vuelta La Riberia (overall, 3 stages)
Trittico Premondiale (1 stage win)
1993
World Cycling Championship - World Cycling Champion
CoreStates USPro Championship - United States National Cycling Champion
Tour de France (Stage 8)
Tour of America (overall)
Vuelta Ciclista a Galega
Trophee Laigueglia
Tour du Pont (1 stage win)
Tour of Sweden (1 stage win)
Kmart West Virginia Classic (overall, 2 stage wins)
Thrift Drug Classic*
1994
Thrift Drug Classic
Tour du Pont (1 stage win)
1995
Tour de France (Stage 18)
Clasica San Sebastian
Paris-Nice (Stage 5)
Tour du Pont (overall, 3 stage wins)
Kmart West Virginia Classic (overall, 1 stage win)
Tour of America (overall)
1996
Tour du Pont (overall, 5 stage wins)
La Flèche Wallonne
1998
Rheinland-Pfalz Rundfahrt (overall)
Tour de Luxembourg (overall, 1 stage win)
Cascade Classic
1999
Tour de France (overall, 4 stage wins)
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (ITT) (Prologue)
Route du Sud (Stage 4)
Circuit de la Sarthe (ITT) (Stage 4)
2000
Tour de France (overall, 1 stage win)
GP des Nations
GP Eddy Merckx
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (ITT) (Stage 3)
Bronze medal in the 2000 Summer Olympics Individual Time Trial, Men
2001
Tour de France (overall, 4 stage wins)
Tour de Suisse (overall, 2 stage wins)
2002
Tour de France (overall, 4 stage wins)
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (Stage 6)
GP du Midi-Libre
2003
Tour de France (overall, 1 stage win, Team Time Trial)
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré (overall, Stage 3 ITT)
2004
Tour de France (overall, 5 stage wins, Team Time Trial)
Tour de Georgia (overall, 2 stage wins)
Tour du Languedoc-Roussillon (Stage 5)
Volta ao Algarve (ITT) (Stage 4)
2005
Tour de France (overall, 2 stage wins, Team Time Trial, Individual Time Trial)
Hm... a bit shorter than our friend Mr. Indurain
#20
Burning Matches.
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Originally Posted by 55/Rad
English Mincemeat Pies
Cover the bowl and set the ingredients aside in a cool place (do not refrigerate) for at least 3 weeks. Check the mixture each week...
Cover the bowl and set the ingredients aside in a cool place (do not refrigerate) for at least 3 weeks. Check the mixture each week...
#21
Burning Matches.
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Originally Posted by CyLowe97
C'mon, Rad. That was a worthless post. Let the ghost go with Euro. It's making you look like a child when you post like that. You're better than that.
...just sayin'....
...just sayin'....
"Both Indurain and Armstrong were fantastic riders. To try to compare them, whether through the results of one race or a lifetime of accomplishments, would result in trite arguments. The only conclusion that one could reasonably arrive at is that they were both great: no facts can prove that one was better than the other, so time spent trying to derive that conclusion is wasted."
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I think it's fair to say that for the most part Indurain posts a great palmares while LA has an excellent training program for winning the TDF. I don't think either would argue a lot. We all know LA and his team perfercted this methodology and make no bones about it. Indurain was a complete cyclist and i feel his racing schedule was better for the sport overal...their records are not even comparable
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I would categorize the two this way: Indurain a great champion, Armstrong the greatest TdF champion. Indurain attempted and accomplished more in his career than LA. Having said that I believe that even though the Tour was still the biggest race of the year during Indurain's time it took on even more significance during Lance's.
#24
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Originally Posted by CyLowe97
C'mon, Rad. That was a worthless post. Let the ghost go with Euro. It's making you look like a child when you post like that. You're better than that.
1. The thread is worthless to begin with - sure it's an interesting video from 13 years ago, but without an opinion, question or statement as to why it's being posted accompaning the link, it comes off as an intentional stirring of the "for you silly Americans who think Lance is a god, here's another example of him getting beat" pot. Particularly given who posted it.
2. As Mr. Euro continues to publicly use an out of context quote and insinuate that I use alternate identities in every one of his posts - I feel I need to react accordingly once in awhile.
In this case, I felt it was the perfect thread for a "I like pie" response.
55/Rad
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Originally Posted by 55/Rad
In this case, I felt it was the perfect thread for a "I like pie" response.
55/Rad