Im Fixed

Found a bike at the land fill the head badge says Cleveland its a single speed real old. I have been looking around and found that they were built in the 1800's as late as 1902 I found a picture of a bike that the frame is identical to mine it was set up like a track bike it had wooden wheels mine has steel. There is a company Cleveland Wielding They made bikes in the 50's only found 2 pic's neither look like mine. Anyone heard of these bikes.

geraldatwork

Never heard of them but do you have a photo?

T-Mar

Cleveland was a brand of the H.A. Lozier Mfg. Co. of Cleveland Ohio. They started producing children's safety bicycles circa 1890 and by the turn of the century were one of the top five bicycle brands in the USA. They opened a manufcturing facility in Toronto Canada in 1895. In 1899 it amalgamated with several other Canadian manufacturers to form Canada Cycle and Motor (CCM) which continued to produce the brand until at least the 1920s. I'm not positive, but the US facility may have been absorbed by the American Bicycle Company in 1899, along with about forty other bicycle producers. They thought that by forming into one large company, they could ride out the recession.

oldy57

I see you are from Ontario. CCM used the Cleveland name as TMAR said. Have a close look at your headbadge and see if there is any indication of Canada Cycle & Motor co on it. Also is the top bar straight from the seat to the front or is it curved by the seat. Are the crank arms bolted on or is the crank 1 piece. Also is the chainring attached with 4 bolts or screws. What is the name on the rear hub, New Departure, CCM or maybe Hercules. This would give us more to go on to determine who made it.

Im Fixed

Sorry I took so long to reply. The head badge does say Canada Cycle and Motor co. on the bottom and the number 458 on the top cleveland in the middle. The chainring has 4 screws. The crossbar is stait and the rear hub has the numbers 130581 and on the brake arm it says ccm the seat is a temet Wheels are 28 1 1/2. I road it to work today tires are beat but the tubes still held air.

oldy57

On the brake arm side of the hub outside of the spokes there should be some numbers or names. It is around the side of the hub but not on the brake arm.

Im Fixed

Checked the hub and found this Made in Canada PAT. PEDING. 1937 "5?" If the wheels are original it cant be any older then 37. Would they not have changed the frame design in all those years? After riding it all week I have decided to strip everything paint it use the frame fork and crank. And rebuild it with light parts. I like the stretch just might make one nice fixie.

T-Mar

If the bicycle is that late, then it should have a frame serial number that we can decode. Not sure about the location for that era, but in addition to the normal locations, check the top and bottom of the seat tubes.

Im Fixed

I checked the bike all over and cannot find a serial number anywhere. Finally got some pictures, thought I would post them to see the bike.

Im Fixed

I found this bike. Both frames look alike, chain ring and sliding seat post. This makes me think the wheels are not original. Here is a picture of a 1925 Cleveland.

oldy57

Your bike looks like the early Cleveland from CCM. I see the pedals are Gibson alluminum. On the pedals edge(flat surface where axle comes out) that is closest to the crank arm is a date like 1923 and maybe patented I think also July. There should be only one date. If there is no date they are pre 1923. The dated ones were made into the 50's using the 1923 date. Also the cranks are like the pre 20's bikes. I think that crank was used into the 20's. There is 2 sizes of bottom bracket cups that CCM used. I don't have the measurements but I know the smaller cups are the pre 1920's. There is only a 1/2" or so difference. Find a newer CCM bike maybe 40's and measure the cups. You will know if you have the pre 20's frame. The wheels could have been changed sometime. Wood wheels that were warped were thrown out. Also are the fenders look more flat like the early ones.

T-Mar

Shouldn't the lack of a serial number indicate pre-1920?

oldy57

T-Mar the bike looks like it may have a good coat of rattlecan paint. There must be a serial number on it. I would think the rear dropout. Im Fixed doesn't say there is no serial number unless I missed that comment. I hope he can post the serial number. I have seen a few pre 20's CCM bikes and they had serial numbers but I don't remember where on the frame.

Im Fixed

Last night was diging around my garden shed and pulled out 4 50s ccms checked the rear wheel on an old rambler and it said pat. pend 1937 its a girls the rest are mens they have curved cross bars, but one it has 2 cross bars. It was to dark and the flashlight wasnt bright enough Ill have a look today. thanks

frameteam2003

These bikes--both the Canadian and USA versions also shaired this name with the Cleveland Motorcycle built in Hartford Conn.(Pope)The early Cleveland Motorcycles,a copy of the first Indian,also used the same headbadge as on this bike---sam

Im Fixed

Ok did some paint scraping and found a ser# 85004 on the seat tube by the tightener. On the the pedal is PAT. APP.FOR.

T-Mar

That's the spot I suspected, but the CCM serial numbers used 6 characters as far back as 1921. Unless you missed a character, the frame would appear to pre-date this. Oldy 57 has already stated that the crankset appears pre-1920 and that the patent date for the pedals is something like 1923. Given that your pedals are pending patent approval, they would appear to be pre-1923. Unless Oldy47 has further info, the evidence points to pre-1921. It could go back as far as 1899, but is most likely from the very late teens.

Im Fixed

Thanks Guys for all your help!

cudak888 

I'm very sorry to pull this dead thread back up from oblivion, after digging it out on the current CCM thread, but I HAD to comment on that very nice looking 1925 Cleveland...

...it has a Brooks mattress saddle from a post-1977 Raleigh on it.

That's gotta be the laugh of the week!

-Kurt

oldy57

Now Kurt be nice. I am not sure on that one. Don't the Brooks saddles have 3 or 4 rivets on the side. This one has 2. I seem to remember seeing an early CCM bike seat like this one in the picture. It was thick leather with rivets. but seemed larger.

cudak888 

I am being nice, Tom. Here's some trivia for you (I won't go into Terry's spring saddles right now):

1940's Brooks vinyl saddles had various rivet patterns - the S-25/NH had two upon each side and four on top at the rear, S-30/N with three upon each side, S-30-1 with four on each side. The S-20 and variants featured either rivet patterns similar to the S-25/NH, or two rivets upon each side only.
(for pics of these early saddles, see https://www.brooksarchives.info/brook...ks/page24.html)

By the '60s and early '70s, a semi-standardized version of these earlier saddles had been developed, with three rivets upon the side, one in front and two at the rear, one higher then the other. This is probably the saddle you have in mind. They were used commonly on the Raleigh Twenty, Space Rider and Colt, not to mention Raleigh's secondary-brand models, Robin Hood, Triumph, Dunelt, etc. Those used on the secondary models featured galvinized saddle frames, the Raleigh models sported a chrome saddle frame & springs. (See Raleigh Twenty and Robin Hood Sports pictures)

Another lesser-known variant are the cheap, white Brooks saddles as used on the Sunset Yellow (a gold color) AMF-Hercs and the all-gold S-22 Raleigh Sports until 1973. These featured a cheap galvinized pan with twist-in springs, and featured three rivets spaced equally apart on the sides. These saddles are also considerably thinner then all previous variants. (See photo of white saddle. Don't mistake the tear in back for a fourth rivet.)

By 1973 or so, all-new mattress saddle variants made an appearance. These featured pleated top sections with chrome frames underneath. Both sprung and rigid-rail versions of these saddles were produced. The sprung variants were simply the old 1960's-'70s saddle frame with a new top, and featured the same three-rivet pattern - one in front, two in the rear with one slightly raised. The rigid variants featured two rivets on each side only - one in front, one in back. (See photo of Coffee Raleigh Sports leaning towards camera for rigid variant, see photo of Carmine Red Sprite for sprung variant)

However, these saddle tops weren't good enough for Raleigh by 1976 (and the rigid variants did have a tendency to fall apart), so they debuted the very variant in question that is on this 1925 Cleveland. My 1980 Raleigh Sports came with one, I mounted a B.72 in it's place, and the mattress saddle found its way onto my Coffee Raleigh Sports. (See photo of Coffee Raleigh leaning away from camera). I think you'll agree that this saddle is a dead ringer for that on the Cleveland, and I'm willing to take 1000+ detail photographs of it to prove it.

Hope you've enjoyed this little trivia about Brooks mattress saddles throughout the years.

Take care,

-Kurt