New KHS Milano
07-19-05, 11:07 PM
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New KHS Milano
I recently ordered a KHS Milano from bicycleblowouts.com so I thought I'd share our experience with the dealer and the bike.
First, about us. We are both avid cyclists but health issues limit my wife/stoker's ability to process oxygen. The tandem is a way of meeting in the middle of our abilities. Not only do I ride, but I also build and repair bicycles and can do just about any maintenance task. Our goal was not to race or keep up with the singles in group rides but to have a better way of riding together that caused us both less frustration. This bike is intended for some road riding but also lots of paved rail-trails. (This part of the country has many of these that aren't dominated by dog-walkers and roller-bladers.) One other thing, I'm a bit of an unusual shape being long of leg and short of torso. There aren't many tandems that fit a captain of my size off-the-shelf.
When bicycleblowouts dropped the price on their large size 2002 Milano to $899, we jumped. The fit is close enough for me and the stoker position dialed in quite nicely for her. Considering that, as far as I can tell, to get a =really= good fit for me we'd have to go either custom or for a DaVinci, $899 is pretty good for "almost" and certainly well within a starter budget.
If you're buying online like this, you need to have some mechanical skills, otherwise much of what you save is going to be eaten up by your LBS to make the bike rideable and safe. Some assembly was required. The handlebars, saddles and wheels needed to be attached. Also there were several adjustments that needed to be made. The front hub was too tight. The front wheel was not tensioned and dished correctly. The rear wheel was better but still needed truing. The shifting and braking needed to be set up properly. These things are, however, to be expected of an affordable bike purchased without LBS support. Finally, the seller forgot to send the pedals but as soon as we discovered the omission we called and he sent replacements with no hassle.
On the positive side, the company was very easy to deal with. They answered all of my pre-sale questions promptly and accurately and, as I mentioned before, worked very quickly to rectify an omission.
We've done some modifications. We replaced the stock 700x28 Panaracer Paselas with Schwalbe Marathon slicks in 700x35. We went with fat tires because comfort is more important than speed to us (especially on less well-maintained trails). We went with Schwalbes because I've had bad luck with Paselas. The stock saddles were replaced with a well-worn Brooks B17 for me and a B67 for the stoker. Also, I replaced the stock stem with a 90mm riser stem to get the fit closer for me. The brifters are going to be replaced with barcons and 287-Vs as soon as practicable because Shimano's front indexing is a crime against humanity.
Our first ride on the KHS was Saturday. We had one previous ride on tandem; a 27 mile trip on a rented Fuji Absolute. The Absolute comes in two sizes, diminutive and minute, so our first ride was on a frame too small. That first ride was just to find out that we could, indeed, work together on a tandem. On the new KHS we were much more comfortable (better seats, better fit) and we'd read enough more that we were ready to start and stop properly. One thing to note for new tandem riders is that much is made of the potential to scare stokers with a lean to right when starting but there is another hazard on stopping. On my single I'll often unclip a single pedal when coming to a stop. To ensure that I don't fall to the side that's still clipped, I'll lean the bike to the unclipped side. After scaring my wife once, I won't do that again on the tandem.
While the Milano is certainly not an ultralight, it suits our purposes well. We went slower than I would on my single but faster than my wife would on hers. The chromolly frame did not feel whippy and with the fat tires the ride was positively plush even over rough patches. When we rode the Fuji, I found the steering difficult to handle at first but after a while I got used to it. With the KHS I had the same wiggly sensation but it came under control much faster. The long wheelbase means that it doesn't handle quickly, although we did get around a corner that my stoker didn't think we could make. It also does just fit in the back of my Subaru wagon with the wheels removed.
All in all, the Milano seems to be a solid entry-level tandem for us. We work together well on it and it suits our needs. If you're thinking about trying a tandem and can't get beyond the sticker prices on Santanas or even Burleys, this might be a good model to consider.
First, about us. We are both avid cyclists but health issues limit my wife/stoker's ability to process oxygen. The tandem is a way of meeting in the middle of our abilities. Not only do I ride, but I also build and repair bicycles and can do just about any maintenance task. Our goal was not to race or keep up with the singles in group rides but to have a better way of riding together that caused us both less frustration. This bike is intended for some road riding but also lots of paved rail-trails. (This part of the country has many of these that aren't dominated by dog-walkers and roller-bladers.) One other thing, I'm a bit of an unusual shape being long of leg and short of torso. There aren't many tandems that fit a captain of my size off-the-shelf.
When bicycleblowouts dropped the price on their large size 2002 Milano to $899, we jumped. The fit is close enough for me and the stoker position dialed in quite nicely for her. Considering that, as far as I can tell, to get a =really= good fit for me we'd have to go either custom or for a DaVinci, $899 is pretty good for "almost" and certainly well within a starter budget.
If you're buying online like this, you need to have some mechanical skills, otherwise much of what you save is going to be eaten up by your LBS to make the bike rideable and safe. Some assembly was required. The handlebars, saddles and wheels needed to be attached. Also there were several adjustments that needed to be made. The front hub was too tight. The front wheel was not tensioned and dished correctly. The rear wheel was better but still needed truing. The shifting and braking needed to be set up properly. These things are, however, to be expected of an affordable bike purchased without LBS support. Finally, the seller forgot to send the pedals but as soon as we discovered the omission we called and he sent replacements with no hassle.
On the positive side, the company was very easy to deal with. They answered all of my pre-sale questions promptly and accurately and, as I mentioned before, worked very quickly to rectify an omission.
We've done some modifications. We replaced the stock 700x28 Panaracer Paselas with Schwalbe Marathon slicks in 700x35. We went with fat tires because comfort is more important than speed to us (especially on less well-maintained trails). We went with Schwalbes because I've had bad luck with Paselas. The stock saddles were replaced with a well-worn Brooks B17 for me and a B67 for the stoker. Also, I replaced the stock stem with a 90mm riser stem to get the fit closer for me. The brifters are going to be replaced with barcons and 287-Vs as soon as practicable because Shimano's front indexing is a crime against humanity.
Our first ride on the KHS was Saturday. We had one previous ride on tandem; a 27 mile trip on a rented Fuji Absolute. The Absolute comes in two sizes, diminutive and minute, so our first ride was on a frame too small. That first ride was just to find out that we could, indeed, work together on a tandem. On the new KHS we were much more comfortable (better seats, better fit) and we'd read enough more that we were ready to start and stop properly. One thing to note for new tandem riders is that much is made of the potential to scare stokers with a lean to right when starting but there is another hazard on stopping. On my single I'll often unclip a single pedal when coming to a stop. To ensure that I don't fall to the side that's still clipped, I'll lean the bike to the unclipped side. After scaring my wife once, I won't do that again on the tandem.
While the Milano is certainly not an ultralight, it suits our purposes well. We went slower than I would on my single but faster than my wife would on hers. The chromolly frame did not feel whippy and with the fat tires the ride was positively plush even over rough patches. When we rode the Fuji, I found the steering difficult to handle at first but after a while I got used to it. With the KHS I had the same wiggly sensation but it came under control much faster. The long wheelbase means that it doesn't handle quickly, although we did get around a corner that my stoker didn't think we could make. It also does just fit in the back of my Subaru wagon with the wheels removed.
All in all, the Milano seems to be a solid entry-level tandem for us. We work together well on it and it suits our needs. If you're thinking about trying a tandem and can't get beyond the sticker prices on Santanas or even Burleys, this might be a good model to consider.
07-20-05, 12:38 PM
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Halfspeed: Welcome to the tandem world!
Great post/explanation! 'Sharing' the ride is the prime motivator!
Stoker Kay has 75% lung capacity . . . she great! Has covered over 200,000 miles on tandems with me; she's climbed as high as 9,200 foot level in the White Mountains in northern Arizona, she has done well over one hundred century rides . . . and collected many trophies/medals in events.
Now in our 70s, we've slowed a bit due to health problems (we're both cancer survivors): less speed, less distance, no more real tough climbing; but we are still out there a'pedalin' TWOgether!
The KHS is a huge improvement over the Fuji and one heck of a good buy! If in a couple years, if you want to upgrade, you'll have a bit more tandem experience/knowhow. . .
In the meantime, enjoy the ride TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
Great post/explanation! 'Sharing' the ride is the prime motivator!
Stoker Kay has 75% lung capacity . . . she great! Has covered over 200,000 miles on tandems with me; she's climbed as high as 9,200 foot level in the White Mountains in northern Arizona, she has done well over one hundred century rides . . . and collected many trophies/medals in events.
Now in our 70s, we've slowed a bit due to health problems (we're both cancer survivors): less speed, less distance, no more real tough climbing; but we are still out there a'pedalin' TWOgether!
The KHS is a huge improvement over the Fuji and one heck of a good buy! If in a couple years, if you want to upgrade, you'll have a bit more tandem experience/knowhow. . .
In the meantime, enjoy the ride TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
07-20-05, 02:36 PM
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Welcome to the brother/sisterhood Halfspeed!
I almost purchased my Milano from Bicycleblowouts. I spoke with them and emailed them several times and they seemed like good people. But, the local tandem shop matched their price, so I purchased local. I still had to put it together myself! But, it was a labor of love. Funny thing was the LBS could not find the wheels that came with the bike so he gave me a set of 48 spoke Santana wheels (my Milano is spaced 160 in the back, but I have heard some are 145). I had the wheels checked and tightened by the local wheel guru and have not had trueness issues since.
This bike has got to be the best kept secret in tandeming. I did my first tandem rally - the GTR this year with my novice stoker and we were up front with the heavy hitters for a long, long time. Some purists may look askance at the KHS but if they rode it, they would find it to be a solid performer. Like you, I think front indexing is a crime, so I bummed an old Ergo left side lever from a bud and now have a Campy/Shimano mutt!
I am riding 700/28 Conti’s and do a little rail-trail riding (to avoid some climbing for the sake of the rear admiral) and have not seen the need to go wider. Plus, you can pump them up to 125 PSI and they roll very well on blacktop. But, if super-plush is what you are after, then wider by all means.
You will have more fun on this bike than you ever had riding singles together. Guaranteed!
I almost purchased my Milano from Bicycleblowouts. I spoke with them and emailed them several times and they seemed like good people. But, the local tandem shop matched their price, so I purchased local. I still had to put it together myself! But, it was a labor of love. Funny thing was the LBS could not find the wheels that came with the bike so he gave me a set of 48 spoke Santana wheels (my Milano is spaced 160 in the back, but I have heard some are 145). I had the wheels checked and tightened by the local wheel guru and have not had trueness issues since.
This bike has got to be the best kept secret in tandeming. I did my first tandem rally - the GTR this year with my novice stoker and we were up front with the heavy hitters for a long, long time. Some purists may look askance at the KHS but if they rode it, they would find it to be a solid performer. Like you, I think front indexing is a crime, so I bummed an old Ergo left side lever from a bud and now have a Campy/Shimano mutt!
I am riding 700/28 Conti’s and do a little rail-trail riding (to avoid some climbing for the sake of the rear admiral) and have not seen the need to go wider. Plus, you can pump them up to 125 PSI and they roll very well on blacktop. But, if super-plush is what you are after, then wider by all means.
You will have more fun on this bike than you ever had riding singles together. Guaranteed!
07-20-05, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by galen_52657
Welcome to the brother/sisterhood Halfspeed!
I almost purchased my Milano from Bicycleblowouts. I spoke with them and emailed them several times and they seemed like good people. But, the local tandem shop matched their price, so I purchased local. I still had to put it together myself! But, it was a labor of love. Funny thing was the LBS could not find the wheels that came with the bike so he gave me a set of 48 spoke Santana wheels (my Milano is spaced 160 in the back, but I have heard some are 145). I had the wheels checked and tightened by the local wheel guru and have not had trueness issues since.
This bike has got to be the best kept secret in tandeming. I did my first tandem rally - the GTR this year with my novice stoker and we were up front with the heavy hitters for a long, long time. Some purists may look askance at the KHS but if they rode it, they would find it to be a solid performer. Like you, I think front indexing is a crime, so I bummed an old Ergo left side lever from a bud and now have a Campy/Shimano mutt!
I am riding 700/28 Conti’s and do a little rail-trail riding (to avoid some climbing for the sake of the rear admiral) and have not seen the need to go wider. Plus, you can pump them up to 125 PSI and they roll very well on blacktop. But, if super-plush is what you are after, then wider by all means.
You will have more fun on this bike than you ever had riding singles together. Guaranteed!
I almost purchased my Milano from Bicycleblowouts. I spoke with them and emailed them several times and they seemed like good people. But, the local tandem shop matched their price, so I purchased local. I still had to put it together myself! But, it was a labor of love. Funny thing was the LBS could not find the wheels that came with the bike so he gave me a set of 48 spoke Santana wheels (my Milano is spaced 160 in the back, but I have heard some are 145). I had the wheels checked and tightened by the local wheel guru and have not had trueness issues since.
This bike has got to be the best kept secret in tandeming. I did my first tandem rally - the GTR this year with my novice stoker and we were up front with the heavy hitters for a long, long time. Some purists may look askance at the KHS but if they rode it, they would find it to be a solid performer. Like you, I think front indexing is a crime, so I bummed an old Ergo left side lever from a bud and now have a Campy/Shimano mutt!
I am riding 700/28 Conti’s and do a little rail-trail riding (to avoid some climbing for the sake of the rear admiral) and have not seen the need to go wider. Plus, you can pump them up to 125 PSI and they roll very well on blacktop. But, if super-plush is what you are after, then wider by all means.
You will have more fun on this bike than you ever had riding singles together. Guaranteed!
So why didn't your LBS assemble it for you? Was that the cost of the price match?
07-20-05, 08:29 PM
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Exactly.
They matched the price and I agreed to assemble it myself as I would have had to anyway should I have purchased it mailorder/internet. I think that was fair.
I also got to look over a several bikes and pick the bike with the least paint damage. Some did not fair to well in shipping.
Since everybody but Santana is running 145 rear spacing, that may be in your favor. I would think low spoke count wheels or backup wheels would be easier to find cheap in 145, should you want or need a set. I could get the Shimano Sweet 16's in 160 which would be nice, but why bother? The only way to make the bike a lot faster is to get the stoker more miles and saddle time.
They matched the price and I agreed to assemble it myself as I would have had to anyway should I have purchased it mailorder/internet. I think that was fair.
I also got to look over a several bikes and pick the bike with the least paint damage. Some did not fair to well in shipping.
Since everybody but Santana is running 145 rear spacing, that may be in your favor. I would think low spoke count wheels or backup wheels would be easier to find cheap in 145, should you want or need a set. I could get the Shimano Sweet 16's in 160 which would be nice, but why bother? The only way to make the bike a lot faster is to get the stoker more miles and saddle time.
