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Downtube folding bike

Old 03-30-07, 03:46 PM
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Hi Invisiblehand, I don't know about either the mini or that particular front rack, but for what it's worth my Dahon rear rack didn't fit on my downtube (one or the other uses non-standard dimensions).

Are you considering the lighter Capreo version? If so, I want a review!

Also, dcoli mentioned that the mini rolls well when folded. My NS would, too, if there were a way to hold it together properly. I'm not sure how the little guy is held together.
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Old 03-30-07, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand
Will do Polaris. At the moment, I am trying to decide whether the Dahon with its magnetic locking mechanism and KlickFix front mount is worth the narrower gear range. Ergonomics is a big issue for me. And relative to most 16" folders, I need to be stretched out horizontally a little more.

My apologies if this has been answered previously, but

(1) does the mini roll well in its folded position?

(2) how does the mini stay folded when folded?

I have a few buddies in Philly. I keep trying to find an excuse to head up there to test ride one. Hopefully this will take place soon.
1) I've never really tried as I usually just fold and put in the car. I'll check it out this weekend.

2) No but I've been meaning to try a velcro strap and now I have a reason to get it done

I'll let you know how it turns out.
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Old 03-30-07, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pm124
Hi Invisiblehand, I don't know about either the mini or that particular front rack, but for what it's worth my Dahon rear rack didn't fit on my downtube (one or the other uses non-standard dimensions).

Are you considering the lighter Capreo version? If so, I want a review!

Also, dcoli mentioned that the mini rolls well when folded. My NS would, too, if there were a way to hold it together properly. I'm not sure how the little guy is held together.

Originally Posted by Polaris43
1) I've never really tried as I usually just fold and put in the car. I'll check it out this weekend.

2) No but I've been meaning to try a velcro strap and now I have a reason to get it done

I'll let you know how it turns out.
Thanks for the replies guys. I appreciate the feedback.

I was just looking at the Bike Friday velcro strap and thinking about the mini. It is not as elegant as the magnetic locks ... but it looks like it would do the trick.

Regarding the Capreo ... I would probably stick with the internal hub. With my fat butt on the bike (195 lbs) and my acts of carelessness, I see that derailer getting smashed.

Glad to hear that it rolls well. Putzing around with a Brompton, I do find that quality helpful. My wife will not live without it!

Hey ... now that I think about it there is another thread about the mini. I will look through there to see if there is any information regarding how the mini locks (if at all) when folded.

If I recall, PM124, you have a birdy right? I always thought that it rode the best out of the mini folders ... but there is no easy way or attachment to get it to roll while folded (I saw one produced in Japan once). It also irks me that they produce one with an internal hub but (1) they do not sell it in the US and (2) it has a coaster brake in the back. Ugh!
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Old 03-30-07, 09:38 PM
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Yup. If you want to roll the Birdy, you have to put it on a skateboard. I'm actually planning on going to Japan one of these days since I work in Asia. I'd love to pick up a Bianchi Fretta there, but also some critically missing Birdy accessories in the US market.

I took a look at https://www.downtube.com/Downtube_200...ey_Archer.html. If you scroll down, you can see that even the folded mini in the picture has fallen apart. So, there's the answer.

I tried to velcro my girlfriend's NS ("Mina Loy") together, but Mina proved to be as rambunctious as her namesake. She has torn apart every attachment I've come up with. I've come to the conclusion that the best way to handle her is to bag her. So, I'm making a thin nylon slip cover to fit. (The Dahon and Birdy slip covers are both way too small to fit, and the one that ships with the bike is a bit cumbersome.) But this is all "knowlege that..." rather than "knowledge how..." ;-)

Mina is a good looking bike though, and rides well. I assume that the mini will have fewer problems since it's lighter and more compact. And it should easily fit in a Birdy or Dahon bag.

Oh, and as for the Birdy, I find that I can fit the slip cover, a multi-tool, a spare tube, and tire irons in one of thoe cheap-o seat bags from pricepoint.com. You could do the same with the mini and then not have to worry about Velcro.
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Old 03-31-07, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by pm124
Yup. If you want to roll the Birdy, you have to put it on a skateboard. I'm actually planning on going to Japan one of these days since I work in Asia. I'd love to pick up a Bianchi Fretta there, but also some critically missing Birdy accessories in the US market.
See if you can find this https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...2&postcount=13

Hey, perhaps one could be fit onto a mini ...
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Old 04-01-07, 10:42 AM
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Thanks Invisiblehand! That's not only extremely cool, but I happen to have good skateboard wheels lying around. Now, all I have to do is figure out how to get my Birdy to walk up and down NYC stairways.

Thinking again about the mini, the bag idea might work similarly to the Tikit with respect to rolling if it were tailor made. Because the handlebar fits between the fold, a tightly fit bag would probably hold it together well. But that's only an untested hypothesis...
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Old 04-02-07, 11:27 PM
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So, I love the Velo Plush seat that came with my Downtube and want to use it on another bike I have. I know a lot of people swap out that seat from the first moment they can - if anyone has one laying around that I could have/trade/buy I'd be grateful!

[I'm in NYC - thanks all!]
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Old 04-03-07, 05:49 AM
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I've got my DT seat just sitting doing nothing and live in Astoria. You can have mine.
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Old 04-03-07, 08:35 AM
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You rock! PM sent
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Old 04-03-07, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by WrencherWOAC
While I am not particularly fond on the NECO BB, this characterization is both unfair and false. There are bearing on both sides. The bearings on the right (drive) side can be accessed by knocking out the axle after the adjustable cup (left) has been removed. It is not even necessary to remove the fixed cup to do it. For more detail. This BB is basically an improved cup and cone. I still recommend replacement with a sealed cassette but only because it is do it once and forget it preventive maintenance best done when the frame is new. On the other hand, the stock unit is serviceable and is likely to last a long time if serviced regularly.
Please don't judge my integrity so quickly.


I will gladly correct my statement, after I recheck the bottom bracket I received. But I'm fairly certain it did not have bearings on the non-drive side, maybe they were not included during assembly and should have been. This still does not change the fact that the entire bottom bracket was so far out of adjustment that the crank arms had .5 inch side-to-side play (this play might have been a result of the missing bearings).

EDIT: I checked, and it definately does not have bearings on the non-drive side. However, I will change my wording to address my BB specifically, because appartently others do not have NECO BBs that are "completely useless". I apologies for the generalization.

Carry on

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Old 04-04-07, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by pm124
I would love to see a slightly lower bottom bracket and a slight change in frame geometry such that the weird coat hanger thing-o on the bottom can come off and the bottom of the seat tube can take its place.
Why would you want to get rid of that weird coat hanger thing? I think it's the bike's best feature.
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Old 04-04-07, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by makeinu
Why would you want to get rid of that weird coat hanger thing? I think it's the bike's best feature.
Yeah, that and the 2 pound stem.
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Old 04-04-07, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by pm124
Yeah, that and the 2 pound stem.
I'm serious. Who wants to readjust the seat every time you unfold? I don't drop the seat stem to put the bike in my closet, I don't drop the seat stem to take the bike into work, I don't drop the seat stem to take the train, and I don't drop the seat stem when I take the chinatown bus. The only time I drop the seat stem is when take the local bus, which isn't often as this bike is really too big for the local bus anyway.


BTW, I'm starting to make a list of things I'm going to change on my VIIIH:
-Definitely need to use a smaller chainring. I'd like to go with a 34T, but I think I might end up getting a 38T chainring and a 22T rear sprocket so I can use....
-A Hebie Chainglider. I'm not sure if I can even get my hands on one of these, but this bike is badly in need of a full chaincase (I have no idea why there are almost no folders with full chaincases).
-Decent fenders (front and rear). I can't believe that Yan said the current setup is sufficient for riding in the rain. I can't even ride past a car wash without splashing myself.
-Lower profile pedals and/or shorter cranks so the left pedal doesn't hit the front wheel when I roll the folded bike. I might hold out for Dahon to release their new folding pedals (hopefully they'll be available as parts).
-Something to hold the bike together while folded! So far the best thing seems to be simply a bungie, but I'd like to figure out something more automatic.

Seems like a long list I guess, but I don't think the list would have been any shorter if I had bought a more expensive bike.
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Old 04-05-07, 11:10 AM
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Well, everyone has different needs, I suppose. One problem with the high bottom bracket is that it makes the bike incompatible for short folks, like my girlfriend. She rides with the seat so high that it might as well be a unicycle. The other thing is that folding bikes are meant to be folded. It takes 2 seconds to lower the seat. If you mark the height spot with an indelible ink marker, it takes 2 seconds to raise it.

Having a high BB and a short reach makes for a bit of an awkward bike design on the NS. She optimally would have 160mm cranks on the bike, but that's simply not possible because she would be waaaay off the ground. Now, she's just waay off the ground.

I'm using a 38T chainring, and the gearing seems about right for the flat city. Celina spins at about 60 and averages 12-15 MPH and I spin at about 90 and average about 18MPH on the Downtube (20MPH on the Birdy), so it's a bit undergeared for me at 38T. But I like to coast downhill, so it's not too much of a problem.

By the way, Air, if you still need a free seat, let me know.
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Old 04-05-07, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by pm124
Thanks Invisiblehand! That's not only extremely cool, but I happen to have good skateboard wheels lying around. Now, all I have to do is figure out how to get my Birdy to walk up and down NYC stairways.

Thinking again about the mini, the bag idea might work similarly to the Tikit with respect to rolling if it were tailor made. Because the handlebar fits between the fold, a tightly fit bag would probably hold it together well. But that's only an untested hypothesis...
You are welcome. Although I have never located a source for that device. If you find one--maybe ask the YAHOO Birdy Friends Group--please pass the information along.

I actually submitted a post on the YAK group regarding the front rack on the Tikit hoping that someone at Bike Friday would respond; but no such luck. I did just read that Bike Friday is looking to further develop the rear rack such that it will stand when folded.

I just installed that Nashbar front rack on my Nova. Pretty useful. Probably the equivalent to two or three wedges. I have not experimented with it much yet. But it also looks like one could bungee books or shoes to the front as well.

Checking out the NWT, I think that the rack will fit on it as well. That is, I can see no reason why it would not. So I would be willing to bet that there would be no issue with its installation.

As I wrote in another thread, I have reached the point that I need to test ride the mini and curve before proceeding much further. I need to find an excuse to go to Philly.

-G
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Old 04-05-07, 11:36 AM
  #1241  
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Originally Posted by pm124
Well, everyone has different needs, I suppose. One problem with the high bottom bracket is that it makes the bike incompatible for short folks, like my girlfriend. She rides with the seat so high that it might as well be a unicycle. The other thing is that folding bikes are meant to be folded. It takes 2 seconds to lower the seat. If you mark the height spot with an indelible ink marker, it takes 2 seconds to raise it.
I'm curious - how tall is she? I've had three short friends ride my IXNS (4-10', 5', 5-1') without any problems. Granted these weren't more than 12 miles but the seat still had to be raised up a bit since all the way down was too low (I was surprised, about the shortest one - I really feared that seat was going to be too tall).

I 'could' drop the seat down every time...though I do like keeping it up and folding it in half (my 'lazy fold' as I call it). I use it a few times a day so the extra few seconds would probably grate on me (it's not folded in my apt, only folded when I go into buildings where the 'no bikes' sign is posted). As you say, everyone has different needs

By the way, Air, if you still need a free seat, let me know.
Thanks!!
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Old 04-05-07, 01:16 PM
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See you when you come by to get the seat. The problem isn't that the seat won't go too low, it's that, if you fit the bike perfectly to the knees, it's up too high. The higher the BB goes off the ground the higher the seat goes. Also problematic, the shorter the crank arm, the higher the seat has to go. So either you bust your knees or ride on stilts.

Thus, as it stands, the bike is oddly proportioned, with tall folks having a short reach and short folks sitting in the stratosphere.

I hope that all this criticism is constructive, I think it's a great bike.
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Old 04-05-07, 09:24 PM
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Bent Rear Hanger

Hey, is it because of the holiday time right now? I tried sending two emails to Yan at Downtube about sending a replacement bent rear derailleur hanger, and I have had no response in the past week?

Got through using the original one, just finished 120 miles RT from Eugene, OR to Reedsport, or almost there, and it was interesting to say the least. Post photos when I get home to Salt Lake City. Right now, I got to get off the hostel community computer.

Lyndon
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Old 04-06-07, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by makeinu
-Definitely need to use a smaller chainring. I'd like to go with a 34T, but I think I might end up getting a 38T chainring and a 22T rear sprocket so I can use....
-A Hebie Chainglider. I'm not sure if I can even get my hands on one of these, but this bike is badly in need of a full chaincase (I have no idea why there are almost no folders with full chaincases).
Hmmm, turns out that the sprockets for the Sturmey Archer 8 speed are only available with 19, 23, and 25 teeth. Unfortunately, the Hebie Chainglider takes a maximum sprocket of 22T. If I go with a 19T then the gearing will be way too high (as the Hebie chaincase also requires a 38T chainring). So there goes plan A.

Plan B (get the gearing I want with a 34T chainring and forget the chaincase), isn't looking good either. The smallest chainring possible with the stock 130mm BCD cranks is a 38T. If I want to go smaller then I need to either replace the cranks with ones featuring a 74mm BCD (such as a road triple) or get one of those triple adaptors that will allow me to bolt a 74mm BCD chainring onto a 130mm BCD crank, both expensive options. I guess a cheap solution would be to get a used road triple like WOAC suggested, but it seems that these typically have longer cranks, which I'd like to avoid.

Maybe I'll just go with the 38T chainring and then hope that either Hebie releases a 23T compatible Chainglider or Sturmey releases a 22T sprocket.
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Old 04-06-07, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by makeinu
I guess a cheap solution would be to get a used road triple like WOAC suggested, but it seems that these typically have longer cranks, which I'd like to avoid.
Why don't you get a used mtb crank? You can get waaaay low gearing on those.
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Old 04-06-07, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SesameCrunch
Why don't you get a used mtb crank? You can get waaaay low gearing on those.
Are MTB cranks typically shorter than road cranks? The granny on road cranks is fine, but most of them seem to be 170mm or 175mm and I don't want longer cranks.

Last edited by makeinu; 04-06-07 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 04-06-07, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by makeinu
Are MTB cranks typically shorter than road cranks?
I thought the opposite; that they are typically longer than road cranks.

EDIT: But you can put small chainrings on MTB cranks. MTB cranks, however, come in the standard 165, 170, and 175 sizes.
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Old 04-06-07, 02:15 PM
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This is probably on earlier threads, but I took Yan's advice and fixed the bike falling apart problem by rotating the stem such that it folds over both halves of the bike. To minimize the fold, you have to rotate the top part of the bars every time you fold it. You also have to twist the seat a bit. But now the Downtube is tuned! And cafe friendly.
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Old 04-08-07, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by pm124
See you when you come by to get the seat. The problem isn't that the seat won't go too low, it's that, if you fit the bike perfectly to the knees, it's up too high. The higher the BB goes off the ground the higher the seat goes. Also problematic, the shorter the crank arm, the higher the seat has to go. So either you bust your knees or ride on stilts.

Thus, as it stands, the bike is oddly proportioned, with tall folks having a short reach and short folks sitting in the stratosphere.

I hope that all this criticism is constructive, I think it's a great bike.
FYI a low BB will increase the risk of pedals strikes on the ground (on uneven pavment and turns). Hence a higher BB is safer for all riders. A longer seat tube will allow taller riders. Our NS, IX, and FS models allow riders with very long arms....due to an adjustable angle stem.

Thanks,
Yan
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Old 04-08-07, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by pm124
This is probably on earlier threads, but I took Yan's advice and fixed the bike falling apart problem by rotating the stem such that it folds over both halves of the bike. To minimize the fold, you have to rotate the top part of the bars every time you fold it. You also have to twist the seat a bit. But now the Downtube is tuned! And cafe friendly.
I'll have to try this. Unfortunately then I won't be able to push the bike by the handlebars, but maybe pushing by the seat won't be so bad. Does it still roll if you do this?

Last edited by makeinu; 04-08-07 at 08:20 PM.
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